Sounds like a complete and utter perversion of the intension behind the rule. 
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About honor killings (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Martin
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How so?
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Since you're all of the sudden the Islam expert here, may you explain why dead animals' meat is also prohibited in Islam? As you well know 
howler) any dead animals' meat ,even if it was for a lamp, for example is prohibited unless it was in fact slaughtered for the sake of eating it.
Is it because of an old Arab Zombie myth?
howler) any dead animals' meat ,even if it was for a lamp, for example is prohibited unless it was in fact slaughtered for the sake of eating it.Is it because of an old Arab Zombie myth?
So he dictated the entire Qur'an? So it is in fact 3rd hand information? he got somebody else to write it?
Well yeah, I like my idea of Muhammad walking alone with some dudes and they see like a cow, and one guy tries to eat it but Muhammad is like " dude eeeww that against gods will" and the other dude is all like
You're way doesn't have a cool backstory.
Well yeah, I like my idea of Muhammad walking alone with some dudes and they see like a cow, and one guy tries to eat it but Muhammad is like " dude eeeww that against gods will" and the other dude is all like
You're way doesn't have a cool backstory.
Arabs used to rate themselves based on their knowledge on the language, they used to talk like what Shakespeare's language is to English. And yet, Qur'an contained such a high level Arabic that even challenged them to come up with something even slightly close to it and that they failed. Hence they became Muslims and fought for this religion.
Before you come out and spread your ridiculous thoughts on how a "dude" created the Qur'an and billions over the years were just not as clever as you rate yourself and actually fall out for that, go read something about Qur'an and you'll realize what's so wondrous about it. Or you can just cluelessly continue this so called debate.
Welcome to the world where respecting other people's beliefs is considered a violation for their beloved freedom of speech.
I know that the vast majority of muslims didn't act like that. Heck, I'd be surprised if an actual majority gave a damn, but people took a simple rule and twisted it to justify something barbaric. My point wasn't that Islam is bad, but that people warp the meaning of their religions to suit themselves. I mean, heck, I've found reading a history of the Catholic church's position on nearly anything is hilarious. Slavery is my favourite.
Terrorists don't need excuses to do something barbaric, they simply have their own interpretation of religion and they use it along with mutual idiots to have support. And certainly mocking the muslim prophet and occupying muslim lands while killing their civilians and backing zionists doesn't help reduce the numbers.
You're going to play literal thing with me? You're better than this.
Of course people don't personally kill their own food these days (well I'm sure some do). They have kosher and halal specialists do it for them and then stamp* on the kosher/halal stamp of approval so people can eat according to their religion and still have the convenience of shopping in grocery stores.
*Does not denote a literal stamp being placed on meat.
Of course people don't personally kill their own food these days (well I'm sure some do). They have kosher and halal specialists do it for them and then stamp* on the kosher/halal stamp of approval so people can eat according to their religion and still have the convenience of shopping in grocery stores.
*Does not denote a literal stamp being placed on meat.
I had a very hard time finding halal food in S.Africa. We can eat Kosher too, but it was hard finding kosher meat as well.
WHAT!!? The Quran has grammatical errors, words that are not in Arabic....grammar was sacrificed many times to maintain rhyme.
Have you read about the Philology of the Quran? I am not asking you to read Orientalists' works... read the old Muslim Scholars.. I can give you links for e-books if you want...rapid share download... Its a good read for muslims and non-muslims alike.. very interesting.
Edit: Whoever wants it then pm me your e-mail.
Have you read about the Philology of the Quran? I am not asking you to read Orientalists' works... read the old Muslim Scholars.. I can give you links for e-books if you want...rapid share download... Its a good read for muslims and non-muslims alike.. very interesting.
Edit: Whoever wants it then pm me your e-mail.
Wondrous!? Are you serious:Can't read or write
Dictates and entire books worth of 'coherent' thought
The book is perfect grammar wise.
This is not evidence that it's the word of God it's evidence that it's a sham perpetrated by and elite. Before you go off the rails like a petulant little brat look at what you are actually saying. Can you use the smallest bit of common sense at all? I wasn't attacking your faith, I was genuinely surprised the Muhammad didn't write the Qu'Ran no need to be a ponce.
Consider this:
I write a book, say it's the word of god, it is the most perfectly written english language tome on earth. I can't read or write. The entire world would call bullshit on that wouldn't they?
Muhammad didn't write it, you said yourself that that is a fact. he couldn't read it so how can you be sure that those are his words and not somebody else's. You can't be sure. When somebody tells you that they've done something that the physically can't do,you call bullshit on it.
Wondrous!? Are you serious:Can't read or write
Dictates and entire books worth of 'coherent' thought
The book is perfect grammar wise.
This is not evidence that it's the word of God it's evidence that it's a sham perpetrated by and elite. Before you go off the rails like a petulant little brat look at what you are actually saying. Can you use the smallest bit of common sense at all? I wasn't attacking your faith, I was genuinely surprised the Muhammad didn't write the Qu'Ran no need to be a ponce.
Consider this:
I write a book, say it's the word of god, it is the most perfectly written english language tome on earth. I can't read or write. The entire world would call bullshit on that wouldn't they?
Muhammad didn't write it, you said yourself that that is a fact. he couldn't read it so how can you be sure that those are his words and not somebody else's. You can't be sure. When somebody tells you that they've done something that the physically can't do,you call bullshit on it.
The Arabic language is derived mostly from Syriac/Aramaic and less so hebrew. The oldest surviving arabic text was Arabic written in 100% Syriac Alphabet (I think it was called the Nemara Inscription)
Know that the earliest surviving Qurans were not written in the form we see now. They were written in what is called as "Rasm" which means drawing. In Rasm, there are absolutely no Dots on letters making the
ث ب ت
all the same. The same thing applies for the KAF letter and the FA. The HA and the KHA... If you read Arabic you'll know why this is problematic... because dots differentiate almost half the letters of the alphabet.
There are variants amongst the ancient Rasm Qurans but none that is significant. The variations are merely in the ordering of verses withing one and the same Sura(chapter) and often times in grammatical structure at best.. early muslim scholars easily arranged the verses and adjusted the grammar to have a logical flow.
Thus Variations in Rasm could be said to be insignificant with the exception of one peculiar case (The Sana'a Manuscripts) where the government refused to publish the content of the ancient Quran.
There is also something Called Qira'at which translates to "readings" of the Quran. As i said before we have more or less the same Rasm, and that Rasm is not dotted..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...sions.jpg/350px-SanaaQuoranDoubleVersions.jpg
Interpreters of Rasm come up with different readings of the Quran based on how they dot the Rasm which can give rise to completely different words. The Quran was supported by an Oral tradition too, not just a written one which is obviously weak, however many controversies surrounding what the proper Qira'a of particular words arose and many variants existed in circulation even post Uthman Ibn Affan. Only recently have there been one single Qira'a of a one single Rasm with tashkeel (the weird symbols on top of letters).
My memory is weak and I cannot cite specifics but I can refer you to books accessible online... I have one in my e-mail.. its called "The Quran in its historical context" which is a bunch of essays by Academic Scholars some Muslim and some not collected in one book with a small piece by the editor.
yes. You can also google
The 7 sleepers of Ephesus and Sura al kahf (the cave). ( Originally Greek then Christianized Folk Story that made its way into the Quran)
The Alexander Romance and the Quran. (Plagiarism of a mythological account of Alexander the great like you wouldn't believe)
Mary mother of Christ and Mary the sister of Moses. (In the Quran their families are mixed up compared to the old testament.)
The science of Galen the Greek Doctor and the science of Mohammed (Embryology)
Finally, Foreign words in the Quran.
Its a big topic.. but yeah once you get into that field SHOCK is all you get.
The 7 sleepers of Ephesus and Sura al kahf (the cave). ( Originally Greek then Christianized Folk Story that made its way into the Quran)
The Alexander Romance and the Quran. (Plagiarism of a mythological account of Alexander the great like you wouldn't believe)
Mary mother of Christ and Mary the sister of Moses. (In the Quran their families are mixed up compared to the old testament.)
The science of Galen the Greek Doctor and the science of Mohammed (Embryology)
Finally, Foreign words in the Quran.
Its a big topic.. but yeah once you get into that field SHOCK is all you get.
Qur'an so called errors to maintain the rhyme aren't in any sort of way grammatical ones as those words are read the way they used to read in the prophet's time and is to this day preferably read the same way but to say that those are grammatical fatal errors, you are wrong. As reading those words as they should be won't change the meaning, it would only change the rhyme. Unless you think rhyming changes the whole output 
Wondrous!? Are you serious:
Can't read or write
Dictates and entire books worth of 'coherent' thought
The book is perfect grammar wise.
This is not evidence that it's the word of God it's evidence that it's a sham perpetrated by and elite. Before you go off the rails like a petulant little brat look at what you are actually saying. Can you use the smallest bit of common sense at all? I wasn't attacking your faith, I was genuinely surprised the Muhammad didn't write the Qu'Ran no need to be a ponce.
No you're not attacking me at there, I must be imagining things. Look, you're the one being an ass here, I was trying to make the effort explaining to your clueless self how coming out with a Qur'an is in fact impossible even for the so called elite of the language. And to your info here, Qur'an was presented to Muhammad even before anyone believed in him or Islam for that matter. ffs, it wasn't until 10 years that he could gather around a 100 followers so no, there was no elite that took part in "making" the Qur'an.
Muhammed didn't type those words he simply memorized them when it was read upon him and then after years in which he ordered his companions to memorize it as well, he decided he'll order them to write it so as not to be any future errors in case any of those forgets or die in war, then there could be a confusion in some parts that would lead to a fight and hence many versions of Qur'an like those of the bible. All of which didn't happen.
Prophet Muhammed read on his companions the Qur'an again in sessions that went on the course of years so they can write down the Qur'an and that's what they did.
Again, read about Islam and Qur'an before you get yourself into this debate.
Wondrous!? Are you serious:Can't read or write
Dictates and entire books worth of 'coherent' thought
The book is perfect grammar wise.
This is not evidence that it's the word of God it's evidence that it's a sham perpetrated by and elite. Before you go off the rails like a petulant little brat look at what you are actually saying. Can you use the smallest bit of common sense at all? I wasn't attacking your faith, I was genuinely surprised the Muhammad didn't write the Qu'Ran no need to be a ponce.
Muhammed didn't type those words he simply memorized them when it was read upon him and then after years in which he ordered his companions to memorize it as well, he decided he'll order them to write it so as not to be any future errors in case any of those forgets or die in war, then there could be a confusion in some parts that would lead to a fight and hence many versions of Qur'an like those of the bible. All of which didn't happen.
Prophet Muhammed read on his companions the Qur'an again in sessions that went on the course of years so they can write down the Qur'an and that's what they did.
Again, read about Islam and Qur'an before you get yourself into this debate.
@IZ and @JBF: I think we can safely assume that the biggest part of Islam is simply putting that common sense aside. If you look at the facts and if you look at what's being claimed, you cannot logically say that it sounds plausible. It simply does not. But there is a 0.000000000000001% chance that it is true. This is where JBF believes.
But to say that it is rational, JBF, is just plain stupid.
But to say that it is rational, JBF, is just plain stupid.
How long is the Quran? He memorized the whole thing, word for word? Punctuation also, did god dictate that too, or did he decide himself where to put a comma?
Correct me if I'm wrong, Muhammad was not a god, he was a human, right? You actually believe a human being can remember a whole book without making a single mistake? Have you EVER seen that happen?
Do you know that memory works on the principle of creation, not "load game"? When you think you remember something there is never a guarantee that you remember it exactly. Lots of people "remember" things all the time and it turns out they remember wrong.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Muhammad was not a god, he was a human, right? You actually believe a human being can remember a whole book without making a single mistake? Have you EVER seen that happen?
Do you know that memory works on the principle of creation, not "load game"? When you think you remember something there is never a guarantee that you remember it exactly. Lots of people "remember" things all the time and it turns out they remember wrong.