About honor killings (1 Viewer)

[Martin]

My hero The Last Psychiatrist weighs in on honor killings. Eye opening as always:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/07/nobody_will_understand_what_we.html

Discuss.

 

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[Yamen]

no religion has promoted honor killing. It is really fucked up. You will find this happening in the arab region mostly to save the family's honor out of the shame their girl has put them into "mostly" by losing her virginity out of wedlock.

 

[Martin]

You missed the crucial part:

This is narcissism, and here I do not hesitate to spell it out explicitly. The obvious is that he sees her only as an extension of himself, only as she impacts his own existence and not as an independent entity. He's not better than her, she's just not a fully formed character, she's an extra. But the more telling and scary part of the narcissism is that he thinks that by killing her, he has not merely stopped her but fixed things, erased his shame, as if it never happened. As if the people back in Iraq aren't still snickering, as if human nature and reality are subservient to the magical thinking of a man who believes a Jeep can alter what God already saw.

More important bits:

The second constant is the shocked surprise that the mother or brothers helped the man get away with it (or commit it.) Why would that be surprising? If his family didn't understand, if his family would be shocked and horrified and appalled at what kind of a man would murder his own daughter, then he wouldn't be doing it. Again, he's not doing it out of internal sense of justice, he's doing it to alter how he is viewed by others around him.

In other words, according to The Last Psychiatrist, honor killings are done by those who want to protect their own reputation as they perceive it in the eyes of others. More explicitly, a father like this does not see his children as independent human beings, but only as characters who play the role of making him look like a good father who has "control" over his family.

 

[Azzurri7]

I think the last bold part sums up everything.

 

[IrishZebra]

no religion has promoted honor killing. It is really fucked up. You will find this happening in the arab region mostly to save the family's honor out of the shame their girl has put them into "mostly" by losing her virginity out of wedlock.

But like, she won't know how to do anything sex wise.

 

[Azzurri7]

In Jordan I hear, there are lots of honor killings going there. I watched a documentary about it over a year ago.

Mostly it's because they caught their wives or sisters sleeping with another men. I can't describe this in words of how stupid and lame it is to do so.

 

[Yamen]

that's because in the society she will be known as a bitch. And that is surely not acceptable. And since there is no actual punishmenet, honor killing is the only escape.

 

[Azzurri7]

that's because in the society she will be known as a bitch. And that is surely not acceptable. And since there is no actual punishmenet, honor killing is the only escape.

I say kill the Society then and let her live.

 

[IrishZebra]

I say kill the Society then and let her live.

You're just hoping Dru doesn't get you honour killed

 

[Martin]

I say kill the Society then and let her live.

Yeah, killing people for calling her names is much better than killing her for having sex. How about the dad off himself instead if he's suffering so much?

 

[icemaη]

Its not in any way confined to Muslims or the Arab community. Its common in India across states and religions.

 

[Seven]

Its not in any way confined to Muslims or the Arab community. Its common in India across states and religions.

It's common in huge parts of the world. You're right it's definitely not just Muslims or Arabs who do this. I always sort of immagined that the killer would think as described in this article, but I never understood how you can completely ignore the fact that your sister might be a person too. At some point you'd at least have to consider that possibility, no?

 

[Azzurri7]

Yeah, killing people for calling her names is much better than killing her for having sex. How about the dad off himself instead if he's suffering so much?

Even better.

And come think of it, if you find your wife having sex with another man in your bed, how on earth would the society know that your wife cheated on you? Are you that dumb to go and announce every store/magazine? Or is the woman that limited to tell people how well she got laid?

They're using the society embarrassment thing to cover their acts I say.

 

[icemaη]

It's common in huge parts of the world. You're right it's definitely not just Muslims or Arabs who do this. I always sort of immagined that the killer would think as described in this article, but I never understood how you can completely ignore the fact that your sister might be a person too. At some point you'd at least have to consider that possibility, no?

I seriously don't understand how they are able to do it. I've heard brothers killing sisters for marrying in the same tribe/caste. Its ultimately the tribe driving the brother to kill the sister no matter how much he loves her. Until she is killed the family has to live in 'shame'. The worse part is when they show the 'elders' in the tribe hailing the murder. Its disgusting and sickening.

 

[Azzurri7]

It's common in huge parts of the world. You're right it's definitely not just Muslims or Arabs who do this. I always sort of immagined that the killer would think as described in this article, but I never understood how you can completely ignore the fact that your sister might be a person too. At some point you'd at least have to consider that possibility, no?

No difference to them. The same people that are welling to kill their wives if they thought or caught them cheating on him would do the same to their sisters. That be sure of.

 

[Martin]

Even better.

And come think of it, if you find your wife having sex with another man in your bed, how on earth would the society know that your wife cheated on you? Are you that dumb to go and announce every store/magazine? Or is the woman that limited to tell people how well she got laid?

They're using the society embarrassment thing to cover their acts I say.

Disagree. It's that society makes them embarrassed that causes their crisis in the first place. If his daughter had sex with the "wrong" man and society didn't care, then he wouldn't have had to "protect" his reputation by killing her.

 

[Azzurri7]

I understand, but one wonders how will society figure out that his daughter got laid with the wrong man.

It's because he wants to believe that at times. Don't you think?

Don't you think by killing his daughter everyone will figure out that she had sex with the wrong guy?

 

[icemaη]

Rab, will your sisters honor kill you for sleeping with me?

 

[Martin]

I understand, but one wonders how will society figure out that his daughter got laid with the wrong man.

It's because he wants to believe that at times. Don't you think?

Don't you think by killing his daughter everyone will figure out that she had sex with the wrong guy?

No. Like I said, if he's the only one who knows this, then there's no problem for him. It's only a problem if "they" know. And so if she keeps doing "the wrong things" he's living in fear that sooner or later "they" will find out. Therefore, the sooner she kills her the better for his reputation.

 

[IrishZebra]

No. Like I said, if he's the only one who knows this, then there's no problem for him. It's only a problem if "they" know. And so if she keeps doing "the wrong things" he's living in fear that sooner or later "they" will find out. Therefore, the sooner she kills her the better for his reputation.

As the Bard says Reputation is an idle and most false imposition; oft got without merit, and lost without deserving.

More to the point, you must concede that a large portion of emotion comes from the personal betrayal and not society. The man finds his wife with another man? that's going to hurt like fuck, if you'll excuse the pun.


Then again if the wife isn't a equal and willing partner in the marriage in the first place, she deserves to bone whomsoever she sees fit.