Israeli-Palestinian conflict (45 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
Yeah, I think most non-boomer generation westerners have been angry about the settlements for a long time now. They were discussed in a couple of my Uni classes and the overwhelming consensus amongst us was that the Settlements were/are an atrocity. I think a lot of us, who support the right of Israeli state to exist and even to defend itself, find a lot of what Israel does infuriating and that our governments shouldn’t cave to the “anti-Semitism” accusations. Israel should face reduced aid/sanctions until it deals with the settlers/settlements.
Israel really should give up all the settlements they created in the West Bank. By doing so they would also have a much better trumph card in terms of showing the World they want peace.
Israel is there to stay and the arabs who are against them should start to acknowledge that in stead of constantly saying they want to wipe them off the map. But at the same time should Israel stop their own shit.
Israel is there to stay and the arabs who are against them should start to acknowledge that in stead of constantly saying they want to wipe them off the map. But at the same time should Israel stop their own shit.
The settlers violence or the settelment expansion issues can not and will not be resolved under this goverment, or any goverment under Bibi. It is a very big issue in the conflict and a huge dettirment to peace, also very quastionably moral imo (the settlements themselves, the settlers violence ofc is undoubtedly reprehensible but it is still a radicalised minority)
With that said I think people here are captives of a misconception that the solution is outside pressure on Israel. While it can bring about a change the time and extreme action it will require renders this option almost irrelevant due to couple of factors in play.
First, the settlers movment itself is a deeply ideologic/religious movment. No amount of outside pressure will change their course and belief. Reason doesn't factor in here at all. They are not operation within any realm of rationality.
Last election they got around 10% of votes, some of them were not even settlers but farmers communities who were promised better protection against agricultural theft and terror. They will not get those votes back ever again.
Second, the orthodox jews parties only care about money and funds to their communities. Religiously they are close to the settlers movment and as long he can buy them off they will stay in Bibi's pocket. The settelment movement in the goverment will have no qualms in diverting budgets to them as long as it serves them so they make great partners.
Third and most important is that those 2 blocks in Israeli politics are the last groups that are willing to form a coalition with Bibi.
Any move he makes that will even be precsived as opposed to the settlers movements he losses his seat and probably forever.
As long as Bibi can get elected this will never change. Sanctions, international pressure, isolation do not matter here, Bibi is trapped with the settlers agenda as long as he stays in politics.
The only option for this to stop is a political change here in Israel, were a new type of coalition form, different from the ones of the last decade or so. A coalition more practical and logical then one driven by a combination of extreme, blind ideology and a bibi personality cult ala Trump. One that will also be more attune to the international community and our allies.
After this, by next election hopefully Bibi will still no longer have the voter base to form any type of coalition, let alone this extreme one, it seems like his presonallty cult is gone almost completely. Until that happens and more parts of the public face the problem honestly this will not change, no matter the amount of outside pressure.
With that said I think people here are captives of a misconception that the solution is outside pressure on Israel. While it can bring about a change the time and extreme action it will require renders this option almost irrelevant due to couple of factors in play.
First, the settlers movment itself is a deeply ideologic/religious movment. No amount of outside pressure will change their course and belief. Reason doesn't factor in here at all. They are not operation within any realm of rationality.
Last election they got around 10% of votes, some of them were not even settlers but farmers communities who were promised better protection against agricultural theft and terror. They will not get those votes back ever again.
Second, the orthodox jews parties only care about money and funds to their communities. Religiously they are close to the settlers movment and as long he can buy them off they will stay in Bibi's pocket. The settelment movement in the goverment will have no qualms in diverting budgets to them as long as it serves them so they make great partners.
Third and most important is that those 2 blocks in Israeli politics are the last groups that are willing to form a coalition with Bibi.
Any move he makes that will even be precsived as opposed to the settlers movements he losses his seat and probably forever.
As long as Bibi can get elected this will never change. Sanctions, international pressure, isolation do not matter here, Bibi is trapped with the settlers agenda as long as he stays in politics.
The only option for this to stop is a political change here in Israel, were a new type of coalition form, different from the ones of the last decade or so. A coalition more practical and logical then one driven by a combination of extreme, blind ideology and a bibi personality cult ala Trump. One that will also be more attune to the international community and our allies.
After this, by next election hopefully Bibi will still no longer have the voter base to form any type of coalition, let alone this extreme one, it seems like his presonallty cult is gone almost completely. Until that happens and more parts of the public face the problem honestly this will not change, no matter the amount of outside pressure.
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You didn't bring any example outside the US.
And the US Israeli relations are not based on mercy or goodwill no matter how much you feel or claim it does.
The annual US aid to Israel is about .07% of our gdp and 3% of our yearly budget. Sure it a lot but not as you make it out to be. And it's a voucher not free money.
Also you are not an American, so who is "let's"?
Anyway, this goes nowhere. We'll agree to disagree
And the US Israeli relations are not based on mercy or goodwill no matter how much you feel or claim it does.
The annual US aid to Israel is about .07% of our gdp and 3% of our yearly budget. Sure it a lot but not as you make it out to be. And it's a voucher not free money.
Also you are not an American, so who is "let's"?
Anyway, this goes nowhere. We'll agree to disagree
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