General News & Politics (47 Viewers)

[Strickland]

It's the unofficial prerequisite for joining the EU, with few exceptions. And what did Nato gained? They gained access to airspace, military bases, boxed in Russia etc.

All Baltic States declared they want to join NATO in 1994, a decade later all became official members. If NATO has "boxed in" Russia for almost 20 years, why are they hesitating on doing anything about it? I mean the "boxing in" has been done for a long while, they have the direct access, where are the next steps? They need another route through Ukraine and then something bad towards Russia is bound to happen?

IMO the only thing that changes when neighbors of Russia join NATO is the major decrease in the possibility that Russia might invade them and that's what Putin really is crying about. There's no real risk that anyone would try to invade Russia, a country with thousands of nuclear warheads.

 

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[kappa96]

I would like to add to the "Russia thretenend by NATO retoric".

How thretenend când the first or second nuclear power on earth can be.
It's not like they would be afraid to use those weapons if a potentially invasion would occur.
No the only thing that russia(putin and his oligarchs) is threthend by is the potential increase in living and lifestyle condition the Ukrainians would witness if they would join the EU and NATO, with the peril of everyday Russians wanting the same.

 

[Strickland]

I would like to add to the "Russia thretenend by NATO retoric".

How thretenend când the first or second nuclear power on earth can be.
It's not like they would be afraid to use those weapons if a potentially invasion would occur.
No the only thing that russia(putin and his oligarchs) is threthend by is the potential increase in living and lifestyle condition the Ukrainians would witness if they would join the EU and NATO, with the peril of everyday Russians wanting the same.

NATO in future would sort of guarantee independence for Ukraine, although it remains to be seen what'd happen to the annexed regions. However in terms of corruption, inequality, poverty, etc, many see Ukraine to be as bad as Russia, Ukraine have a long way to go to clear house.

 

[JuveMkd]

Sa what you mean to say that the west is actually trying to invade Ukraine, not Russia.
Got it.

No just stating that they got the most to gain from war.

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Because UE doesn't have a military of it's own.
If that were the case they wouldn't be a reason for NATO to exist.
Without NATO countries like Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, the baltic countries , even Finland and Sweden would still be at the whims of Russia.

NATO and the USA practically garanties our independence from Russia.

And now they are at the whims of the USA. Just the name is different all the bullshit is the same.

 

[kappa96]

No just stating that they got the most to gain from war.

What would they gain from a potential war.
And if they would gain something from this war, why would Russia enable such gains?

 

[JuveMkd]

All Baltic States declared they want to join NATO in 1994, a decade later all became official members. If NATO has "boxed in" Russia for almost 20 years, why are they hesitating on doing anything about it? I mean the "boxing in" has been done for a long while, they have the direct access, where are the next steps? They need another route through Ukraine and then something bad towards Russia is bound to happen?

IMO the only thing that changes when neighbors of Russia join NATO is the major decrease in the possibility that Russia might invade them and that's what Putin really is crying about. There's no real risk that anyone would try to invade Russia, a country with thousands of nuclear warheads.

Who said they didn't want to join. I'm saying Nato purposely did it while Yeltsin was in power.

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What would they gain from a potential war.
And if they would gain something from this war, why would Russia enable such gains?

Like supplying west Europe with gas. And the EU sanctions on Russia would be like godsend to the US right now.

 

[kappa96]

Who said they didn't want to join. I'm saying Nato purposely did it while Yeltsin was in power.

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Like supplying west Europe with gas. And the EU sanctions on Russia would be like godsend to the US right now.

So why is Russia enabling those gains by threatening war?

Another question is why doesn't NATO just send a liberating army directly in Ukraine if they have so much to gain.
It's not like Russia would be in a position to do something about it.

Hint. It's because NATO is a purely defensive organization., not a warmongering one.
If it were a warmongering one Russia would be already boxed out since the 90'

 

[GordoDeCentral]

But i dont understand. Regardless of how it ended up, or whether or not foreign countries tried to benefit from it in some way or another. How was the actual uprising not organic? The hundreds of thousands of people protesting, or revolting against those regimes are all foreign agents?

Was it not completely logical people would be fed up of those regimes in Libya, Syria, Egypt etc? The fact that those same populations ended up supporting alternative figures or regimes that are just as autocratic is the sad part

Dissatisfied is really broad though and the situation in every country is different, i really believe now libya was the biggest loser of the lot, been meaning to share this with you and this a good time as any:

 

[kappa96]

Gadaffi practically robbed its Lybian citizens.
The only way his regime enjoined some success was because of the oil and it's small population of 6 million.
For reference Norway has the same number of citizens and their economy is also based on natural resources.

I don't need to compare the living conditions between these countries.
Lybian population had every right to riot.

Even in the video it said that many refused to participate in the war bacause of fear of reprisal from the government, not because they loved and respected Gadaffi.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Gadaffi practically robbed its Lybian citizens.
The only way his regime enjoined some success was because of the oil and it's small population of 6 million.
For reference Norway has the same number of citizens and their economy is also based on natural resources.

I don't need to compare the living conditions between these countries.
Lybian population had every right to riot.

Even in the video it said that many refused to participate in the war bacause of fear of reprisal from the government, not because they loved and respected Gadaffi.

And that worked out just great

 

[kappa96]

It didn't but that's hardly the west's fault.
Lybians have the right for self determination.
Their country is their responsibility.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

It didn't but that's hardly the west's fault.
Lybians have the right for self determination.
Their country is their responsibility.

I wholeheartedly agree, but this contradicts your earlier point since the west definitely meddled in their affairs and in a very direct fashion.

 

[kappa96]

I wholeheartedly agree, but this contradicts your earlier point since the west definitely meddled in their affairs and in a very direct fashion.

If by trying to help a revolutionary group that had the courage to go to war against a vastly superior Gaddafi lead military (in spite of knowing that losing would mean instant death) it's meddling than I agree.

 

[JuveMkd]

So why is Russia enabling those gains by threatening war?

Another question is why doesn't NATO just send a liberating army directly in Ukraine if they have so much to gain.
It's not like Russia would be in a position to do something about it.

Hint. It's because NATO is a purely defensive organization., not a warmongering one.
If it were a warmongering one Russia would be already boxed out since the 90'

What should they do roll down and surrender. I suppose when someone threatens you, you just ignore them and hope they go away and don't cause anymore trouble.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

If by trying to help a revolutionary group that had the courage to go to war against a vastly superior Gaddafi lead military (in spite of knowing that losing would mean instant death) it's meddling than I agree.

To quote someone i know "Their country is their responsibility"

 

[Elvin]

What should they do roll down and surrender. I suppose when someone threatens you, you just ignore them and hope they go away and don't cause anymore trouble.

Surrender to what? Who is attacking/invading Russia?

 

[kappa96]

What should they do roll down and surrender. I suppose when someone threatens you, you just ignore them and hope they go away and don't cause anymore trouble.

Bro how can you say that they should roll down and surrender when there is no one attacking them.
Are you leaving in a paralel dimension or something.
Russia is the AGRESSOR here.

It's like Greece deciding in case of your country that you are not allowed to join the EU, because they don't want you to be free of their control.

 

[kappa96]

To quote someone i know "Their country is their responsibility"

Good one. I guess you think it's fair for the general population to fight against the one that controls all their money(Gaddafi) and can use THEIR money to kill them without repercussions.

 

[Bjerknes]

 

[Kopanja]

Tbh, these intelligence leaks might save our asses here in Ukraine. Controlling the narrative is important. Fuck Zakharova and fuck Russia.