About honor killings (7 Viewers)

[GordoDeCentral]

what a simplistic approach to a complex social matter, it has little to do with the individual's psyche and all to do with a culture that rewards a "clean" "wholesome" family name, which at a stretch can be compared to "credit history" in the US. Sorry 'tin your boy should go back to analyzing why he wants to do his mother.

 

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[Enron]

It doesn't say anything about whether the man will be punished or not.

It does say, that under sharia law, both are to be punished the same punishment.

I haven't found anything on the fellow. I would assume his punishment was minimal or non-existent if no fuss is being made over his stoning.

 

[Fred]

I haven't found anything on the fellow. I would assume his punishment was minimal or non-existent if no fuss is being made over his stoning.

Which is wrong.

Even the article states that under Sharia law, both are to be stoned.

 

[Enron]

what a simplistic approach to a complex social matter, it has little to do with the individual's psyche and all to do with a culture that rewards a "clean" "wholesome" family name, which at a stretch can be compared to "credit history" in the US. Sorry 'tin your boy should go back to analyzing why he wants to do his mother.

Who holds the family name?

 

[Enron]

Which is wrong.

Even the article states that under Sharia law, both are to be stoned.

I know. That's why I was wondering about it.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Who holds the family name?

family name is how you get a job, family name is how you get a loan. The whole family is affected by the family name.

 

[Enron]

family name is how you get a job, family name is how you get a loan. The whole family is affected by the family name.

That's not what I was getting at. The family name is very important, more so for the males of the household than the females. After all, it is the males that carry it on. Though the females hold equal or more responsibility for upholding that name by being obedient and do what's expected. It's really not that foreign of a concept.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

That's not what I was getting at. The family name is very important, more so for the males of the household than the females. After all, it is the males that carry it on. Though the females hold equal or more responsibility for upholding that name by being obedient and do what's expected. It's really not that foreign of a concept.

i am not saying it is foreign, i was saying that this is the reason behind something as ugly as honor killing.

 

[Enron]

i am not saying it is foreign, i was saying that this is the reason behind something as ugly as honor killing.

You were saying it's a complex issue. I'm saying it's not.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

You were saying it's a complex issue. I'm saying it's not.

it's complex as in it involves more than just the individual committing the act, he's more of an instrument so the reasons behind it are indeed intertwined and can't be pinned on the psychological frustrations and deficiencies of one individual

 

[Hist]

Question...

Is the male punished for his part in sex out of wedlock?

Yes, But a male doesn't need to fornicate.. he can have up to four wives and an infinite number of sex slaves. Women remain monogamous.. they cant have sex with slaves and they cant have more then one husband.

 

[JBF]

In Jordan I hear, there are lots of honor killings going there. I watched a documentary about it over a year ago.

Mostly it's because they caught their wives or sisters sleeping with another men. I can't describe this in words of how stupid and lame it is to do so.

Yup its popular here but that's down to our tribal fucked up system. They're the same ones who are destroying this country with their continious fighting and racisim that is spread over the country.

Dictums of Quran and Hadiths which may dictate/incite honor killing:

None of them indicate honor killings but rather going to court where there must be 3 witnesses of the suspect having sex which is almost impossible. And even when there is and the court rules against the victim then it's the court's duty to carry the verdict not that of the brother/father/husband..etc. Honor killings has nothing to do with religion but rather customs and tribal thoughts.

 

[Azzurri7]

Yes.

Where do men get punished? What country? And how?

 

[Azzurri7]

Yup its popular here but that's down to our tribal fucked up system. They're the same ones who are destroying this country with their continious fighting and racisim that is spread over the country.

Can't the King has his say on this matter? Or tribal law is untouched there?

 

[Yamen]

He can. But it won't be followed and he would lose face because he should know the "fucked up" system

 

[Hist]

None of them indicate honor killings but rather going to court where there must be 3 witnesses of the suspect having sex which is almost impossible. And even when there is and the court rules against the victim then it's the court's duty to carry the verdict not that of the brother/father/husband..etc. Honor killings has nothing to do with religion but rather customs and tribal thoughts.

For me, religion itself stems from customs, culture and tribal thoughts. In the case of Islam, yes honor killings are not allowed.. I was just pointing out that the idea of killing fornicators is Islamic and that Honor Killings are the consequence of condemning fornicators to death... they happen when the family takes the law into their own hands. So No.. it is related to religion.. at least indirectly.

Apostates should be killed under Islamic Law but there are rules surrounding it where the apostate has to be locked in a room for three days and they try to convince him to repent and go back to Islam. Most apostate executions end up being done by the people and not by the court. Even Christians in Egypt often time kill their apostates (much lesser cases though) even though Christianity does not order their killing.

It is both cultural and religious as both are almost the same.

 

[swag]

it's complex as in it involves more than just the individual committing the act, he's more of an instrument so the reasons behind it are indeed intertwined and can't be pinned on the psychological frustrations and deficiencies of one individual

I'm too strongly an advocate of individual responsibility to accept the "I blame society" approach. Individuals must be held accountable for what is considered right and wrong in accordance with the law. If the law allows it, it is a corrupt law. If it does not allow it, then it must be enforced.

Accountability through a bureaucracy is no better solution.

Either make it legal or illegal and enforce it on those terms. No riding the fence or hiding behind "cultural sensitivities".

 

[Seven]

what a simplistic approach to a complex social matter, it has little to do with the individual's psyche and all to do with a culture that rewards a "clean" "wholesome" family name, which at a stretch can be compared to "credit history" in the US. Sorry 'tin your boy should go back to analyzing why he wants to do his mother.

None of this means Martin's hero can't be right unfortunately. Besides.. given the fact that he still is the one who kills her, it IS his psyche we're talking about. A psyche, as you say, thoroughly influenced by a culture that rewards a clean family name. It is indeed the culture that has affected his way of thinking. But it is his way of thinking that is described here.

 

[Fred]

Where do men get punished? What country? And how?

I didn't say they got punished, and i didn't say they don't get punished. I said that under Sharia law, both should be punished.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

I'm too strongly an advocate of individual responsibility to accept the "I blame society" approach. Individuals must be held accountable for what is considered right and wrong in accordance with the law. If the law allows it, it is a corrupt law. If it does not allow it, then it must be enforced.

Accountability through a bureaucracy is no better solution.

Either make it legal or illegal and enforce it on those terms. No riding the fence or hiding behind "cultural sensitivities".

same here, maybe i didnt express it well, i was discussing the roots of the problem and dismissing the psychological debility theory. Of course, the only one to blame in a case by case is the perpetrator; but to tackle the problem as a whole then the tribal family culture is the target.