You're going to hell if you __________ (2 Viewers)

[Lawnchair Bes]

He tells you that if you do right for yourself and for the people he will reward you in life and in heaven. ?

you are ignoring 9 commandments that make no sense

 

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[Martin]

Where are you getting these rationales from?

Firstly, based on scripture, you know like the stuff that every goddamn religion proclaims to be the word of said god, he is not much more than an insecure and spoiled jerk on a power trip with periods of sustained good will. In other words, he is basically a lot like any human being is, which is one heck of a surprise when you consider that it was human beings who invented god (as I see it) and the only thing they had to go by was themselves.

A dictator is unjust, a dictator is very very far from perfect. Your description is inaccurate. Any religion will tell you DO NOT kill, steal, rape,gamble, fuck, lie, cheat, drink..etc..

Not only that, every major religion also forbids (or in the more liberal stance, discourages) me from doing things that harm noone (homosexuality anyone?). And then they say "god told us to tell you he said it".

Remember those 10 commandments? Top of the list you got "you shall not have other dictators than me". You know what's called in contemporary language? Attention whore.

 

[Snoop]

Let's believe for a second he exists. He isn't really that merciful, and I don't think he gives you 3 chances, it's either heaven or hell. "if you do what I want you to do, you can enjoy the heaven, but if you don't you will burn in hell forever".. yeah right, that's a nice freedom he gave us..

What about the option "If you don't like me, then you can end the opportunity I gave you,your life, instead of burning forever".

 

[Snoop]

I am not atheist, I am agnostic. I don't believe in anything, nor interested.. There could be a god, maybe yes maybe no. but one thing I am pretty sure is, if there is a god, it's not the same one that Christians or Muslims or the rest are worshiping. Those are fairytales and politics, they (the ones in charge, pope, priests etc..) are just abusing you, they want authority, power this is all religion about..

 

[Martin]

I am not atheist, I am agnostic.

I'm tempted to say "What's the difference?" I've seen a lot of attempts at making the distinction between agnostic and atheist and none of them have made any kind of point that would make one right for me and the other not. It's just pedantry as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Snoop]

Aren't the Atheists who claim that there are no Gods or things like that, while the Agnostic just don't believe but don't rule out the possibility? That's how I thought it was.

 

[.zero]

I am not atheist, I am agnostic.

i thought you were awesome...

i guess i got the 2 confused

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

Aren't the Atheists who claim that there are no Gods or things like that, while the Agnostic just don't believe but don't rule out the possibility? That's how I thought it was.

how can anyone "rule out the possibility"

 

[Martin]

Aren't the Atheists who claim that there are no Gods or things like that, while the Agnostic just don't believe but don't rule out the possibility? That's how I thought it was.

If you don't believe there is god, then your answer to "is there a god, yes or no" is?

That's right, the same. If you don't believe in something why should you make allowances for its possible yet completely implausible existence? Noone goes around saying "I don't believe in dragons but I vehemently refuse to deny their existence".

 

[Snoop]

how can anyone "rule out the possibility"

You mean I used wrong words, or who would claim that?

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

You mean I used wrong words, or who would claim that?

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[Snoop]

If you don't believe there is god, then your answer to "is there a god, yes or no" is?
That's right, the same. If you don't believe in something why should you make allowances for its possible yet completely implausible existence? Noone goes around saying "I don't believe in dragons but I vehemently refuse to deny their existence".

The answer is maybe yes, maybe no. I can't answer that question because I can't be sure, or prove. But that's different when you say the opposite no? "yes there is god" "no there is no god". I think it differs. When I say I don't believe in X, it doesn't mean I am sure that X is wrong, it means I am not convinced about X or don't know about it.

Just like when you ask me do I like you? There are 3 answers not only two, positive is yes I do, negative is no I can't stand you, neutral is I don't like you, I don't know you to like you or not. It doesn't have to be negative or positive. Atheists or the ones who are pretty sure that God doesn't exist are the negative ones here, while agnostic are the neutral.

 

[Hist]

Let's believe for a second he exists. He isn't really that merciful, and I don't think he gives you 3 chances, it's either heaven or hell. "if you do what I want you to do, you can enjoy the heaven, but if you don't you will burn in hell forever".. yeah right, that's a nice freedom he gave us..

What about the option "If you don't like me, then you can end the opportunity I gave you,your life, instead of burning forever".

He created you for a purpose and he tells you if you fulfill that purpose i will reward you.. if you try to fulfill it i will reward you...if you are ignorant of it i will reward you.. if you REFUSE to fulfill it i will punish you.

He tells you so and so will make your LIFE better... you can argue the principles some religions suggest but again you cant deny that it asks you to be righteous

 

[Martin]

The answer is maybe yes, maybe no. I can't answer that question because I can't be sure, or prove. But that's different when you say the opposite no? "yes there is god" "no there is no god". I think it differs. When I say I don't believe in X, it doesn't mean I am sure that X is wrong, it means I am not convinced about X.

Just like when you ask me do you like me? There are 3 answers not only two, positive is yes I do, negative is no I can't stand you, neutral is I don't like you, I don't know you to like you or not. It doesn't have to be negative or positive. Atheists or the ones who are pretty sure that God doesn't exist are the negative ones here, while agnostic are the neutral.

The point is that when you don't answer "yes" then you actually answer "no". If someone asked you "do you want to release this prisoner" and you said "I don't know", he wouldn't have been released. If you're asked "should gays have right to adopt children" and you say "I don't know" then nothing will change, they won't be given the right. All this because inertia is a stronger force than the undetermined result of uncertainty. If you don't say yes, you might as well be saying no. Most of the time.

To make this more relevant, if you don't say "yes, god exists" then you're not going to live your life according to a belief in god, which means in effect your actions reflect the answer "no". Because there is no behavior that corresponds to "I don't know", there is no middle, you're not going to believe on Saturdays and then not believe on Sundays.

So in a survey "I don't know" is going to be a different answer from both "yes" and "no", but as far as it affects you're life, it's not going to be different.

 

[Snoop]

He created you for a purpose and he tells you if you fulfill that purpose i will reward you, if you REFUSE to fulfill it i will punish you.

That proves my point

There is no freewill here..

 

[Martin]

He created you for a purpose and he tells you if you fulfill that purpose i will reward you.. if you try to fulfill it i will reward you...if you are ignorant of it i will reward you.. if you REFUSE to fulfill it i will punish you.

He tells you so and so will make your LIFE better... you can argue the principles some religions suggest but again you cant deny that it asks you to be righteous

Let me ask you this. If someone doesn't doesn't buy the god story and completely rejects religion, but does live a moral life, what do you think is gonna happen to him?

 

[Snoop]

The point is that when you don't answer "yes" then you actually answer "no". If someone asked you "do you want to release this prisoner" and you said "I don't know", he wouldn't have been released. If you're asked "should gays have right to adopt children" and you say "I don't know" then nothing will change, they won't be given the right. All this because inertia is a stronger force than the undetermined result of uncertainty. If you don't say yes, you might as well be saying no. Most of the time.

To make this more relevant, if you don't say "yes, god exists" then you're not going to live your life according to a belief in god, which means in effect your actions reflect the answer "no". Because there is no behavior that corresponds to "I don't know", there is no middle, you're not going to believe on Saturdays and then not believe on Sundays.

So in survey "I don't know" is going to be a different answer from both "yes" and "no", but as far as it affects you're life, it's not going to be different.

What you are saying is true, and what I am saying is also true. In the end, yes I don't believe in God, you are right. So I belong to the "No" side. But even the "No" side can be divided too, just like I explained in my previous post. Even thou both sides don't believe, but there is a difference between them. You are saying it is impossible, God can't exist. I am saying, it is possible, I can't know, that's the difference Martin.

I am not sure if we will agree

 

[Martin]

I know you can't know, but it doesn't matter, because it doesn't affect you in any way different from if you could know. So it's irrelevant.

 

[Snoop]

The examples you gave weren't good Martin, because the answer would be either yes or no. let me give you this example.

Do you believe there is money in this box? answers are:
1) yes (believers)
2) no (atheists)
3) I can't tell (agnostics)


View attachment 37330

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

the answer that an atheist would give, would be, "i have no reason to believe that there is money in that box"