Trans people: your informed opinions and why you hold them (6 Viewers)

[Trequartista]

If it's a mental disorder that exists from birth then it's a birth defect, right?

I guess it is.

 

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[Martin]

Basically, they want to have their cake and eat it.

Show me how you eat a cake without having one.

 

[Seven]

Ok. So the government/insurance companies pay for reassignment surgeries because it's a mental disorder. Yet, LGBT groups keep saying that transgenderism is not a mental disorder. However, there is no way insurant companies would want to pay for it if it weren't a mental disorder, otherwise one could argue that they should also pay for regular plastic surgery.

So LGBT activists want the surgeries to be paid by insurance/government but they don't want gender identity disorder/dysphoria/whatever term they come up with next to be classified as a mental disorder. There's a pretty clear contradiction here.
Basically, they want to have their cake and eat it.

This is a silly debate about semantics that I could not care less about.

 

[swag]

Ok. So the government/insurance companies pay for reassignment surgeries because it's a mental disorder. Yet, LGBT groups keep saying that transgenderism is not a mental disorder. However, there is no way insurant companies would want to pay for it if it weren't a mental disorder, otherwise one could argue that they should also pay for regular plastic surgery.

But they do for cleft palates, for example, or reconstructive surgery after mastectomies.

 

[swag]

Show me how you eat a cake without having one.

Baby's got cake to December.

 

[Trequartista]

But they do for cleft palates, for example, or reconstructive surgery after mastectomies.

They regard it as a birth defect I guess? For masectomies, it is usually done to prevent/treat cancer, right?

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This is a silly debate about semantics that I could not care less about.

Sure, definitions are irrelevant.

 

[swag]

They regard it as a birth defect I guess? For masectomies, it is usually done to prevent/treat cancer, right?

I think you're overemphasizing the classification and underemphasizing the symptoms. You'd make a great health insurance bureaucrat.

 

[Trequartista]

You guys know that now they block homornes of teenagers who claim that they have the soul of the other sex?

I can't see how one can be seriously be ok with that, as if a teenager knew enough about sexuality and gender identity to understand that.

 

[Seven]

You guys know that now they block homornes of teenagers who claim that they have the soul of the other sex?

How can't see how one can be seriously be ok with that, as if a teenager knew enough about sexuality and gender identity to understand that.

Yeah, I've got some serious questions about that myself.

 

[Trequartista]

I think you're overemphasizing the classification and underemphasizing the symptoms. You'd make a great health insurance bureaucrat.

How about body integrity identity disorder, that's surely a birth defect as well. Should we pay for their surgery to have their limbs hacked off too?

How about people suffering from the Cotard delusion, who they that they are dead. Should we pay for their euthanasia?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Yes, I waited 16 years to broach the subject I actually had at heart.

You got my full support

 

[swag]

How about body integrity identity disorder, that's surely a birth defect as well. Should we pay for their surgery to have their limbs hacked off too?

You do realize that I believe there's a special layer in hell for the transhumanists. (in the context of this thread, that word may not be what you think it is.)

 

[Maddy]

You got my full support

Do you think he should be allowed to adopt?

 

[Seven]

Do you think he should be allowed to adopt?

Only if he'd marry a man, I suppose.

 

[Trequartista]

You do realize that I believe there's a special layer in hell for the transhumanists. (in the context of this thread, that word may not be what you think it is.)

Ok

 

[Martin]

Do you think he should be allowed to adopt?

I don't want to adopt from this thread. I want to choose from the whole forum.

 

[swag]

Ok

It's no wonder I don't like those Iron Man movies.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Only if he'd marry a man, I suppose.

Allowed? Hes the pater familias ffs

 

[Kate]

I had a pretty indignant initial reaction when I first heard years ago about the SF city government paying for these.

But I do think it goes to the birth defect argument. Maybe it's not the same as being born with a cleft palate, but there is a sort of biological sense of disfigurement combined with the social construct of how everyone looks and interacts with that person. It can be debilitating.

15 years ago I had a coworker Tammy who became Travis. It was pretty weird at first - the bathroom thing and all. But over time I understood more.

So ethically, I'm not against insurance paying for gender reassignment surgeries anymore than I'm against repairing cleft palates. The question remains the cost-benefit in a society of limited resources. Not everybody should get a liver transplant, for example, and we suck at recognizing how this seems dehumanizing but there's a prohibitive cost on everything.

I think that's pretty much it. I don't know what my completely informed opinion is, as it's not completely informed. I think plenty of people have legitimate feelings of dissociation between their bodies and their minds, and if surgery is a treatment that can work for that, then do it.

Then there's the whole issue of gender being a man-made construct - what part of being a woman is it that you want? How and when do you know that you were supposed to have a penis? For many trans people I know, dressing the part, doing "lady" or "manly" things isn't often part of the equation, yet that's what we hear about in articles. Especially about "transgender" kids (something I am rarely convinced of, as the media shows "He always knew he liked dresses!" which is bullshit, anyone can like dresses, what about his feelings towards his body?)

I don't know. It's a very real thing, and I completely support the people who need to do it, but I can't imagine how they feel or even the thought of going through that kind of surgery.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I find it confusing, I couldn't give a shit what people with their lives but I struggle to empathise with the transgender movement in the same way I do with gay rights.