the realist thread (3 Viewers)

what was your honest target for this season

  • we are Juve only scudetto will suffice

  • everybody else but inter are shite, we should have 2nd place all sewn up

  • CL qualification and consolidation of our finish last term

  • jeez man with Ranieri in charge i was just hoping to stave off relegation


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Badass J Elkann

It's time to go!!
Feb 12, 2006
65,830
#81
bisco i see where you're comming from with giving time and all that, but you also need to ask yourself that can you really compare Ranieri's achievements to the likes of Wenger and Fergusson? Its true to say arsenal havn't won anything significant in a long while but Wenger has proven he is capable of winning honours, unlike Ranieri who only has a domestic spanish cup and promotion with a Serie B side to show for his coaching career.
 

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Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,412
#82
cronios do u think had this team been under any one things would've been different? put in mind the same circumstances, i,e the transfers we got, the player mistakes, our injuries, and our match scedule and tell me yr opinion about that.
No, if CR gets the 2#, as far as i am concerned, its mission accomplished.
I dont blame him for the transfers, he really had to work with a handicap.
I reckon that and many times i defended and will defend him for that.
He was only brought, because unlike DD, he is a quit obeying pawn.

I blame him for the lack of courage he shows some times. As an example when he has too afraid too field Giovinco when Neddy was off form and Sissoko was able to provide the necessary defensive coverage and allow him to offer the crucial creativity we lacked at times!
Like the first game vs Lazio.

I blame him because he never asked or tried for any upgrades of our wing backs. And he insists with those untalented/limited players, who have no future, or present...

I blame him for the way he handled Criscito, DC, Giovinco, Palla, in a lesser extend Noce and the way he would have handled Marchisio, given the chance...

I blame him for being too coward and order our players to full back and defend the lead, repeatedly!
Esp, when we were dominating Lazio and had the chance to ensure qualification, at the first leg. That was not only a coward's move, but also a fool's move. Because the defense is our weakest point and if we fall back and rely on her, we will pay it, as we did so many times before...
We lost too many points for trying to defends such leads and still no cure for that.
Some times in life, you must risk and it is esp indicated to risk,
when you have more to gain, than to lose...
CR prefers to lose a championship/cup, than losing a game
and thats a loser's mentality!!

And finally, i blame him for his post match comments and behavior.
He always blames, the players, the luck, the refs, the ball, the grass, the injuries, the form of our adversaries, everything else, than the real cause.
I dont think that CR is stupid, he does that on purpose...

And to conclude, despite being a hater from day one, i dont consider him an utter failure. I believe that we can do a lot worse than that.
I believe that every coach has his fault.
Juve atm has some serious problems
and i dont think that any serious coach would accept our position and tolerate the catastrophic policy of our board.
We got the coach we are worthy of and i dont see us getting anyone better than him, if the conditions in our helm remain the same.
Personally, i dont want him to be replaced with another pawn/clown just for the shake of it.
Because we risk that, the second pawn/clown will be even worse than him.
And because that our team will lose some valuable power/teamwork/efficiency/solidity, even momentary, anyway,
when the new pawn/clown will try to adapt our team on his own system/formation/pecking order.

I wouldnt trade CR with Conte, Vialli or Ferrara, not even now.

But to be certain of it, i need to see/confirm two things first:
-the collapse we show now, was also present by the end of last season,
if were not collapsing by the end of last season, when Roma seemed of getting away, we could have used their crisis to couch up. If we repeat this pattern this year, it will mean, that it wasnt just a random phenomenon, but smth we should consider as certainty with CR on board.
-the rumored issues he has with some of our players.
We cannot afford him to make personal vendettas with stars like Treze.
As if the pathetic vendetta he opened with Jose wasnt enough.
We dont need that extra pressure and def not the extra problems with some of our better players, or more promising players like Giovinco, may start.

If the last two points are confirmed to be true, then he should be thrown to the dogs asap!
 

Red

-------
Moderator
Nov 26, 2006
47,024
#84
Cronios, I don't think we chose to defend the lead agaisnt Lazio in the Coppa.

Lazio played a very good second half and forced us back.
 

Tomice

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2009
2,981
#85
And to conclude, despite being a hater from day one, i dont consider him an utter failure. I believe that we can do a lot worse than that.
I believe that every coach has his fault. Juve atm has some serious problems
and i dont think that a serious coach would accept our position and tolerate the catastrophic policy of our board.
We got the coach we are worthy of and i dont see us getting anyone better than him, if the conditions on out helm remain the same.
Personally, i dont want him to be replaced with another pawn/clown just for the shake of it.
Because we risk that the second pawn/clown will be even worse than him.
And because that our team will lose some valuable power/teamwork/efficiency/solidity, even momentary, when the new pawn/clown will try to adapt our team on his own system/formation/pecking order.
Exactly the point i tried to make a few pages back.
CR does have a somewhat proven abillity when it comes to building a team, he did made good buys in chelsea, but that time was like the wild wild west, shitload of money but no supervison.
however it seems he has such a weak character that he rather take whatever the board his willing to give insted of putting a foot down.
He will sell his mother. dignity and us fans for one more year as a coach.
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,412
#86
Cronios, I don't think we chose to defend the lead agaisnt Lazio in the Coppa.

Lazio played a very good second half and forced us back.
I dont remember if you were present on the live thread then, but the large majority of the forum did noticed it and pointed that out, right on the spot.
I lived that moment, i think even Jack blamed CR there!!!
I even remember the camera showing CR desperately yelling to our players to fall back with the characteristic move of his hands.
This fact cannot be denied. Neither CR's post mach satisfaction for the away goal.
Even worse, that was not an isolated phenomenon, it happened countless time in the league too...

Exactly the point i tried to make a few pages back.
CR does have a somewhat proven abillity when it comes to building a team, he did made good buys in chelsea, but that time was like the wild wild west, shitload of money but no supervison.
however it seems he has such a weak character that he rather take whatever the board his willing to give insted of putting a foot down.
He will sell his mother. dignity and us fans for one more year as a coach.
He might not be a bad man, but he is def a weak man, and the fear of failure has marked him.
Jose knew really well how to exploit and expose this weakness when he accuse him of an old man who was won nothing.
CR has bitten the bait, proving his point...

And we are called to pay for CR's mental issues and loser mentality...
 

Red

-------
Moderator
Nov 26, 2006
47,024
#87
I dont remember if you were present on the live thread then, but the large majority of the forum did noticed it and pointed it, right on the spend.
Even remember the camera showing CR desperately yelling to our players to fall back with the characteristic move of his hands.
This fact cannot be denied. Neither CR satisfaction for the away goal.
Even worse, that was not an isolated phenomenon, it happened countless time in the league too...
I don't go in the live threads.

On many occasions we have, rightly or wrongly, chosen to defend leads, but I felt we were forced to defend by Lazio on that occasion.

If I remember rightly, Ranieri wasn't happy with how things were going and subbed both out central midfielders in an effort to get us some control of the game.
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,854
#89
Coppa was pretty fuckin realistic if you ask me. We'd never have an easier path and Ranieri fucked it up. Catania (home), Napoli (home, even that on PKs), Lazio owned our ass, could've had Sampdoria - fuckin Sampdoria in the final.
The advantageous schedule and opponents was the reason I got so invested and hopeful for a Silver Star, would last me for the next 2 seasons. But no the fuck face at the helm decides to tinker a little...

This is where "oh he did best he could with the team he had" theory goes to toilet, because we didn't fuckin have to beat anyone with a better squad. We got owned by midtable teams...
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,552
#90
If I remember rightly, Ranieri wasn't happy with how things were going and subbed both out central midfielders in an effort to get us some control of the game.
Absolutely true. Our CMs lost it in the second half and Lazio easily pressed us. I remember well yelling at Ranieri to replace the midfielders and he did. It was done in attempt to get back the control we clearly lost in midfield.
We were pushed back, we didn't decide to defend the lead.

Unfortunately, the sub midfielders weren't any better.
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,854
#91
Absolutely true. Our CMs lost it in the second half and Lazio easily pressed us. I remember well yelling at Ranieri to replace the midfielders and he did. It was done in attempt to get back the control we clearly lost in midfield.
We were pushed back, we didn't decide to defend the lead.
He never gets it right the first time.
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,854
#93
:D

I just don't get his logic, who in their right mind would start Marchionni over Camo (fit and rested), was he trying to be badass and bench a star, or he was hoping Marchi would score like he did in Rome? Who thinks like that FFS?

I don't understand man, is there something we don't know? Coaching can't be that easy...
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,412
#94
We lost the center when CR subbed out Sissoko
and we lost the initiative when we fall back. If Lazio where capable of pushing us back,
they would have tried that before CR start yelling to our players to fall back...

CR was only unsatisfied by the way our midfielders were defending
(and he still considers, that this is the issue of the season,not the quality of our defenders)
not because they were not pushing forward!
His subs indicate that his attention were focused on the way we defended,
he never had the intention to push forward!!
He subbed out Tiago and never "risked" Giovinco, DC, or the trident, not even when we were losing and the disqualification was certain! We never made an attempt to push them back, to scare them away, our wingers and midfielders were defensive minded, we fielded a two line defense
in a pathetic attempt, to waste time and destroy their game!
Our tactical play involved no attacking plan, not even the use of counterattacks!

The players only followed his mentality and orders, it was not the first time they were forced to fall back and with the way CR amputates our team, chopping off our very rare offensive weapons, it is not hard to impose his will...
 

king Ale

Senior Member
Oct 28, 2004
21,689
#98
So, we have the high hopers up there. The majority is concentrated on the second option. Reds and blues plus Amaurisimo and Virtual are the realists while some weirdos want to bite Ranieri's head off :D
 
Feb 4, 2009
565
#99
I expected second place (with the hope that we all had of overtaking Inter) and the Coppa Italia, and also thought we could of made the quarter finals in CL..

Had it not been for our team's slip ups in the recent weeks, we could of been right there for the Scudetto race.
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,481
Another person who either just doesn't understand or didn't even bother to read what people wrote. I don't really have time to keep repeating myself, but it's not because we won't be winning anything this season. It's how we went down making idiotic decisions that could have been prevented, how we truly have no idea what we're doing when we step onto the pitch, and how the problems seem to have just gotten worse throughout the season. If that is progress to some people, good for them.

That's all I have time for at this point.
My beef with Ranieri is not not winning the Scudetto, it's an accumulation of things:

- his tactical ineptitude, the games where he showed some tactical prowess can be counted on the fingers of one hand
- the countless games where he did not use all of his substitutes(incredibly irritating)
- the no thinkering with squad rotation
- the insistence not to play one of the most exciting players Italy has currently
- constant negating of obvious problems and accepting defeat

Those are all things that have made me fed up with Cladio, even though before I rarely bashed him and gave him all the benefit of a doubt.

I never expected us to win the Scudetto, but I'll be damned if I expected to have such a leaky defense, such lack of passing ability and overall atmosphere around the club. Realist or no realist, in my honest opinion, it's a wonder we managed to be 2nd all this time and it just goes to show how bad Serie A has become. But things aren't lookin' up, that's the real problem and changes are needed.
Juve Revolution said:
We have a bunch of idiots running the team now and we can't do anything about it
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

Yeah, OK.

Tell me what's so great about Ranieri then.

You even said it yourself he should go. How the hell can you sit there and tell me this crap when even you want him gone.
exactly

We're now a more sympathetic and likable club. Basically we're giving our ass and others are having fun with it.

We should be those ball busting mofos we used to be and not let anyone spit on Juve's name.
totally agree, Mark :beer:

Get some real football ppl in here to run this club, otherwise we will never improve, and trophies will be as hard to come by as they are for Torino or Siena

Never mind the new "niceness" of Juve, with a wanna-be comedian loser as coach...I'd rather be hated and win
 

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