Tactics and Formations (26 Viewers)
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http://www.carloancelotti.it/05-difficolta-e-soluzioni-nel-pressing-offensivo/
"The opposition in 4.4.2 to 5.3.2. Difficulties and solutions in the offensive Pressing "
"The opposition in 4.4.2 to 5.3.2. Difficulties and solutions in the offensive Pressing "
05 - DIFFICULTY 'OFFENSIVE AND SOLUTIONS IN PRESSING
Hello everyone!
The Ligue 1 and the Champions League enter their crucial phase, and this periodic meeting with all of you, I am a professional range really nice: relieves tension and the high concentration accompanying the preparation of objectives that would be historic for the club and of course for me.
Today I want to introduce you to a specific tactical situation:
"The opposition in 4.4.2 to 5.3.2. Difficulties and solutions Pressing offensive "
Let's see ...
OBJECTIVE: Pressing Offensive
DIFFICULTIES ': the presence of three midfielders opponents in midfield and especially the player back dancing behind the two central midfielders of 4.4.2.
If we consider that our two external, have the external adversaries as a reference, we are outnumbered in midfield, with the result that they can not press them effectively, they have control of the game.
FIRST SOLUTION:
Attach it, in turn, with one of our two central midfielders, but this produces a bad result to discover the central area of the field, creating a space in which, during the possession, midfielders opponents can be inserted. (fig .1)
SECOND SOLUTION:
Re-enter with an attacking midfielder down. (Fig. 2)
THIRD SOLUTION: Combined action based on the position of the ball:
1) With ball into the opposing half = outside backs more open and closer. (fig. 3)
With ball in our half of the field outside = very tight, to play on the opponents midfielders and allow one of the central midfielders to press the midfield opponent down. (Fig. 4)
In this case, the full-backs must be able to climb on the inclusion of the exterior, three against two opponents and remain on the defensive, with opposite narrow back.
COMMENTS:
Against the 5-3-2 (with the 4-4-2 ), in phase of possession, one has the possibility of having space on the backs and then these must receive the ball in a high position, so as to force the exterior (of five defenders) to come up.
In front of this situation is a fundamental movement behind the same and open one of the three central defenders, creating a central space where one of our tips will directly attack the deep.
I have given you a solution that allowed me to solve a difficult situation has arisen in the league against Lyon and I hope will serve you all, of course if you want to make an offensive pressure.
Hello everyone!
The Ligue 1 and the Champions League enter their crucial phase, and this periodic meeting with all of you, I am a professional range really nice: relieves tension and the high concentration accompanying the preparation of objectives that would be historic for the club and of course for me.
Today I want to introduce you to a specific tactical situation:
"The opposition in 4.4.2 to 5.3.2. Difficulties and solutions Pressing offensive "
Let's see ...
OBJECTIVE: Pressing Offensive
DIFFICULTIES ': the presence of three midfielders opponents in midfield and especially the player back dancing behind the two central midfielders of 4.4.2.
If we consider that our two external, have the external adversaries as a reference, we are outnumbered in midfield, with the result that they can not press them effectively, they have control of the game.
FIRST SOLUTION:
Attach it, in turn, with one of our two central midfielders, but this produces a bad result to discover the central area of the field, creating a space in which, during the possession, midfielders opponents can be inserted. (fig .1)
SECOND SOLUTION:
Re-enter with an attacking midfielder down. (Fig. 2)
THIRD SOLUTION: Combined action based on the position of the ball:
1) With ball into the opposing half = outside backs more open and closer. (fig. 3)
With ball in our half of the field outside = very tight, to play on the opponents midfielders and allow one of the central midfielders to press the midfield opponent down. (Fig. 4)
In this case, the full-backs must be able to climb on the inclusion of the exterior, three against two opponents and remain on the defensive, with opposite narrow back.
COMMENTS:
Against the 5-3-2 (with the 4-4-2 ), in phase of possession, one has the possibility of having space on the backs and then these must receive the ball in a high position, so as to force the exterior (of five defenders) to come up.
In front of this situation is a fundamental movement behind the same and open one of the three central defenders, creating a central space where one of our tips will directly attack the deep.
I have given you a solution that allowed me to solve a difficult situation has arisen in the league against Lyon and I hope will serve you all, of course if you want to make an offensive pressure.
I don't mind starting with the 3-5-2 but if you see during the game that having a 3rd guy up front or don't really need 3 at the back because the opponents forwards are not threatening then change it. Conte didn't yesterday while IMO needed too with the space they gave us on the wings so we could put a thousand crosses in.
I think whoever is arguing for the change of formation to 4-3-3 got a good point here.
We hardly create chances using the 3-5-2 tactics. I know those who are pro that formation will argue that we already won a league title using the 3-5-2 formation but even last season we had difficulties winning against any top team.
Hope Conte by now realize this.
We hardly create chances using the 3-5-2 tactics. I know those who are pro that formation will argue that we already won a league title using the 3-5-2 formation but even last season we had difficulties winning against any top team.
Hope Conte by now realize this.
Exactly. There is not much difference between having 3/5 in defence and 4, particularly when we have Asamoah on the left and Lichtsteiner on the right.
It is not like Mazzari's 3-4-3 Napoli had much trouble scoring with their trident in attack. Creativity has little to do with the amount of defenders and wingbacks you have on the pitch, but rather, who you have in attack. Our three man defence suits our defenders and brings out the best of them (usually).
Pushing up the wingbacks and taking out Pogba for Giovinco would have been the better move. We were a bit unlucky and it did not help us that neither Peluso and Asamoah seemingly could play, which forced Conte to use De Ceglie, and that Chiellini was poor.
It is not like Mazzari's 3-4-3 Napoli had much trouble scoring with their trident in attack. Creativity has little to do with the amount of defenders and wingbacks you have on the pitch, but rather, who you have in attack. Our three man defence suits our defenders and brings out the best of them (usually).
Pushing up the wingbacks and taking out Pogba for Giovinco would have been the better move. We were a bit unlucky and it did not help us that neither Peluso and Asamoah seemingly could play, which forced Conte to use De Ceglie, and that Chiellini was poor.
I think the biggest problem in this formation and with the tactics used is we play alot of the wing or atleast we did in the cl game because they gave freedom on the wings. When you have that much space instead of crossing it at every chance you get, our wingbacks could have applied more pressure in the box by cutting in and simply crossing the ball back or do a lay off to somone around the box. Conte played a crossing game and then he goes on and says he played short forwards because the danes had big cbs, how does that make any sense? Was that a joke or was he being serious?
Anyway, with the 3-5-2 the most we looked affective with that formation is when a team doesnt park the bus and we are allowed to push forward without our midfielders and cbs being pushed. When our backline is pushed and pirlo is being marked, we continue to play from the back which usually causes juve to mess up, which then sparks the opponents counter attack.( Which we saw against Bayern)
If we are going to continue with the 3-5-2 which I know we will, we either play with Llorente-Tevez or we have to stay with Vucinic-Tevez. We need some height for those Bonucci long balls and Pirlo passes. Otherwise why are we playing off the flanks? I also think we should change the formation to what @Sadomin said. A 3-4-3 you could put Vucinic and Tevez drifting wide or you could play like Vucinic and Llorente upfront and Tevez behind them linking up play. We had barely any play through the middle aganist the danes and it was all through the flanks. Unless you have an affective crosser in Peluso who actually finds his target their is no point in playing on the flanks other than providing pressure.
Anyway, with the 3-5-2 the most we looked affective with that formation is when a team doesnt park the bus and we are allowed to push forward without our midfielders and cbs being pushed. When our backline is pushed and pirlo is being marked, we continue to play from the back which usually causes juve to mess up, which then sparks the opponents counter attack.( Which we saw against Bayern)
If we are going to continue with the 3-5-2 which I know we will, we either play with Llorente-Tevez or we have to stay with Vucinic-Tevez. We need some height for those Bonucci long balls and Pirlo passes. Otherwise why are we playing off the flanks? I also think we should change the formation to what @Sadomin said. A 3-4-3 you could put Vucinic and Tevez drifting wide or you could play like Vucinic and Llorente upfront and Tevez behind them linking up play. We had barely any play through the middle aganist the danes and it was all through the flanks. Unless you have an affective crosser in Peluso who actually finds his target their is no point in playing on the flanks other than providing pressure.
Imo our problem with 352 is that no team in CL will sit back as deep as most Serie A teams. No team in CL will give our CBs + Pirlo freedom to play their game. Even the Danes managed to press us and it was enough to snatch a draw. On the other hand teams like Bayern can dominate us completely because we never press our opponents but instead we get back deep to our half. I mean VERY deep. It allows our opponents to keep the ball for long periods of the match which allows them to rest while we have to run quite a lot. This formation is very tiring for our B2B, wing backs and forwards who have to run a lot but have very little chance of doing any damage. If we sit back so deep we have no chance to counter attack either.
It's annoying when we have to attack but we have not enough players to move forward and press them to make some mistakes. I really hated those 'ole!' shouts vs the Danes
it really looked like we were outsiders that moment.
I understand why we use 352 and that's because we have 3 (with Ogbonna 4) tall, well built defenders who are slow though. It's easier for them to do their job in back 3. Also Piro has some good protection from them + our 2 box-to-box CMs. Our problems start when Pirlo has a day off or is covered very well but a real nightmare begins when our back 3 are pressed which means Bonucci is out of the game for long periods too.
I'm still waiting for a change. Preferably to a more wing-based game we used to play in the 11/12 season. I like our 352 but I think there's a lot of room for improvement in the tactics department. Take a look at Nipples this season and last season to understand what I mean. Conte definitely has to stay and find a way to improve this team.
It's annoying when we have to attack but we have not enough players to move forward and press them to make some mistakes. I really hated those 'ole!' shouts vs the Danes
it really looked like we were outsiders that moment.I understand why we use 352 and that's because we have 3 (with Ogbonna 4) tall, well built defenders who are slow though. It's easier for them to do their job in back 3. Also Piro has some good protection from them + our 2 box-to-box CMs. Our problems start when Pirlo has a day off or is covered very well but a real nightmare begins when our back 3 are pressed which means Bonucci is out of the game for long periods too.
I'm still waiting for a change. Preferably to a more wing-based game we used to play in the 11/12 season. I like our 352 but I think there's a lot of room for improvement in the tactics department. Take a look at Nipples this season and last season to understand what I mean. Conte definitely has to stay and find a way to improve this team.
Precisely - if anything, you need to change things up at times just so as that you're not so predictable. We have become so predictable that it's irritating and easy for our opponents to read.
When we play 3-5-2 against a big team, it turns into a 5-3-2 ver quickly meaning we can rarely build things up to attack as half the team is defending in an around the box.
When we play 3-5-2 against a big team, it turns into a 5-3-2 ver quickly meaning we can rarely build things up to attack as half the team is defending in an around the box.
i think there is some confusion here between formation and philosophy. Even if Juventus play a different formation the philosophy wont change and they will essentially play the same... coaches usually choose formation for the foundation parts of football passing lanes defensive coverage areas etc... this stuff helps to win football games but it isn't a main deciding factor. The philosophy is the main deciding factor that wins games it decides if you press, or if you sit back, if you use shor corners or long throws etc.
My point Juventus will play the same way even if the formation changes because the formation isn't what is guiding the style of football played.
My point Juventus will play the same way even if the formation changes because the formation isn't what is guiding the style of football played.
Great post. Even if we go to 4-3-3 you won't see the same rampaging team from 2011-12, we play a lot more measured than that now, as we are looking to control the game and balance out a domestic and CL campaign.
Back then it was all different, we weren't the team to beat, more freedom and less risk.
Back then it was all different, we weren't the team to beat, more freedom and less risk.
Yes but in the case of a 3-5-2 vs. a 4 man back line, there are stark differences.
The 3-5-2 has *always* 4 men behind the ball, those being the 3 CBs and Pirlo. That is alot of men to be behind the ball. A 4 man back line will usually have the 2 CBs and the regista behind the ball, with the fullbacks a bit higher up the pitch. Even if the fullbacks are not as far up the field as they are in the 3-5-2, they are still commanding the attention of the same players in the opposition.
The result being we have one less man in attack, really. That's why you constantly see our LCB or RCB being allowed to walk with the ball so far up the pitch. The opposition is happy to have Chiellini with the ball in the final 3rd.
And boy can we be pressed. No one in this league really bothers to test us but when pressed, we can be pinned back because, again, most of our players can be found behind the ball. You can have 6 players in our own half behind the ball if you include the wingbacks. There's no coincidence we were pressed in every match in the CL knockouts. Even Celtic had the courage to press us because they knew we'd be pinned back with so many of our players congesting our OWN final 3rd.
There is simply very little consequence for a team that chooses to press us because they only have to account for our 2 strikers playing very near to each other, way ahead of our pinned back CBs and Pirlo. So mostly all of the time last year, they were rewarded. Fiorentina, Inter, Lazio in the Coppa, Bayern, and even Celtic (if we didn't somehow produce a 100% chance conversion rate) experienced good results.
It's just a very safe formation. It's steady in Serie A and I see why Conte uses it. You can retain possession easier because most of your possession will be in non-dangerous areas where your 3 CBs and Pirlo are. Let's face it, they have the ball the whole game. This formation is great when the other team doesn't want the ball but when they come and take it from us, it's hard for us to offer resistance.
The 3-5-2 has *always* 4 men behind the ball, those being the 3 CBs and Pirlo. That is alot of men to be behind the ball. A 4 man back line will usually have the 2 CBs and the regista behind the ball, with the fullbacks a bit higher up the pitch. Even if the fullbacks are not as far up the field as they are in the 3-5-2, they are still commanding the attention of the same players in the opposition.
The result being we have one less man in attack, really. That's why you constantly see our LCB or RCB being allowed to walk with the ball so far up the pitch. The opposition is happy to have Chiellini with the ball in the final 3rd.
And boy can we be pressed. No one in this league really bothers to test us but when pressed, we can be pinned back because, again, most of our players can be found behind the ball. You can have 6 players in our own half behind the ball if you include the wingbacks. There's no coincidence we were pressed in every match in the CL knockouts. Even Celtic had the courage to press us because they knew we'd be pinned back with so many of our players congesting our OWN final 3rd.
There is simply very little consequence for a team that chooses to press us because they only have to account for our 2 strikers playing very near to each other, way ahead of our pinned back CBs and Pirlo. So mostly all of the time last year, they were rewarded. Fiorentina, Inter, Lazio in the Coppa, Bayern, and even Celtic (if we didn't somehow produce a 100% chance conversion rate) experienced good results.
It's just a very safe formation. It's steady in Serie A and I see why Conte uses it. You can retain possession easier because most of your possession will be in non-dangerous areas where your 3 CBs and Pirlo are. Let's face it, they have the ball the whole game. This formation is great when the other team doesn't want the ball but when they come and take it from us, it's hard for us to offer resistance.
