'Murica! (39 Viewers)

Sjaban

Senior Member
Dec 29, 2012
2,020
What makes it even worse is that the particular issue he is describing is something most European countries are arguably better at. In Europe, you will get chances time and time again. You don't have to take on huge student loans, you don't have to bank on not getting sick.. If you can't pay college, it is often paid for you.. I'd agree that in a lot of ways the US might be a better place to do business. It seems easier to become a billionare in the US than it does in Europe.

But if we're talking about 'chances' for people who might not have the easiest backgrounds, surely I'd take almost all of Western Europe over the US.
Our systems in Europe have a double effect though, on the one hand it's great that we have a more social oriented design and try to look after our own, but (not sure what the situation in Belgium is like) in my native country The Netherlands because of this support web that every citizen (EU and Dutch) gets, there are many who take full advantage and get themselves disqualified from having to work and the state will provide for them with housing, a monthly "wage", and healthcare to a certain degree.

I also prefer to stay in Western Europe, but if things continue like they are going now it will be unsustainable to keep those tuition fees low, student loans limited, and social support from the government.
 

campionesidd

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2013
15,389
I think America's biggest advantage in the future is its stable demographic dividend. Western European countries are going to have a serious problem due to their low or even negative population growth rate.
 

AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
29,686
Yep. That’s part of it, that’s why I said “for starters”...as in, there is more but to primarily answer your question that’s the just of it. I see you tried to corner me, and that’s fine, but what I refer too is only available here. Like I said, you guys can think me or ALC are full of shit, we don’t really care. Everyone has their own dreams...maybe ALC’s dreams can be achieved in Belgium, Somalia or Trinidad but my specific ones are actually US specific.
Do you mind if I ask what it is that you do? Because I'm busting my ass in a "dead-end job" where I can't afford to live in the city I was born and raised in, though very few here can anyway.
 

king Ale

Senior Member
Oct 28, 2004
21,689
I'd love to hear you say that if you were born in somalia, the point is you can't be proud of something you had no control over, it is great to be American but to be proud of that is like saying I'm proud to have won the lottery. So instead of proud use lucky/fortunate, I'm very fortunate to be American is more like it.
End of.

As much as i love Iran and believe will never love a "place" any more than Iran, i'd choose to have another nationality if i could.
 

MikeM

Footballing Hipster celebrating 4th place with Tuz
Sep 21, 2008
12,484
I think you can be proud of where you're from. I am lucky to be born in Canada but still I have the choice to join or reject what most Canadians stand for. But since what they stand for is usually righteous (or some other pompous word), I choose to join it. And I get a sense of pride from that.

I mean, Americans and Canadians are so similar that you can hardly tell the difference if you just look and talk to them. A guy from Toronto vs. Chicago is almost identical. But in so many areas Canada differs from the USA. When we differ from our American counterparts, that's an active choice that the collective of the nation chooses to accept. That's something you can be proud of or not be proud of IMO.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,405
I think you can be proud of where you're from. I am lucky to be born in Canada but still I have the choice to join or reject what most Canadians stand for. But since what they stand for is usually righteous (or some other pompous word), I choose to join it. And I get a sense of pride from that.

I mean, Americans and Canadians are so similar that you can hardly tell the difference if you just look and talk to them. A guy from Toronto vs. Chicago is almost identical. But in so many areas Canada differs from the USA. When we differ from our American counterparts, that's an active choice that the collective of the nation chooses to accept. That's something you can be proud of or not be proud of IMO.
Nice attempt, but you too are muddying the waters by confusing endorsement of a country's actions which are dictated by .01% of the population with this notion that that the essence of the country manifests in some 'righteous' body politic. The choice to join in the nationalist fervor is not only smart but natural considering you were socialized there. Imo what you are really shooting for is a sense of civic belonging which makes more sense since not only can you directly affect the change but you also see it unfolding, that is if you do take part of course.
 

pitbull

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2007
11,045
Do you mind if I ask what it is that you do? Because I'm busting my ass in a "dead-end job" where I can't afford to live in the city I was born and raised in, though very few here can anyway.
I think you should blame Frank Sinatra, Friends, Statue of Liberty and another million factors for everyone wanting to live in New York, I'd bet that at least 20% of the worlds population have on their bucket list "I want to live in New York for a few months/years" :p
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
41,923
The US might be the best country for you. I'm sure it is for many people. I can certainly see why a lot of people would prefer to live there. But that's an individual choice. It doesn't exactly prove that there is more upward social mobility on the US than anywhere else.
Anecdotal evidence is all Americans have to prove their cherished American Dream. Every lower class neighbourhood has these stories of that one person who escaped and became a millionaire. They all repeat stories about Bill Gates, or the founders of this or that other company working hard and achieving the American Dream.

The problem in America is unparalleled ignorance for a first world country. They've brainwashed poor people into thinking that lower taxes and the social services/health care/education cuts that come along with lower taxes help them, or at the very least that taxes should be low so that when they achieve the American dream of becoming rich, they won't have "half" taken away by the government.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
Anecdotal evidence is all Americans have to prove their cherished American Dream. Every lower class neighbourhood has these stories of that one person who escaped and became a millionaire. They all repeat stories about Bill Gates, or the founders of this or that other company working hard and achieving the American Dream.

The problem in America is unparalleled ignorance for a first world country. They've brainwashed poor people into thinking that lower taxes and the social services/health care/education cuts that come along with lower taxes help them, or at the very least that taxes should be low so that when they achieve the American dream of becoming rich, they won't have "half" taken away by the government.

I think that's probably the correct word.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,357
Anecdotal evidence is all Americans have to prove their cherished American Dream. Every lower class neighbourhood has these stories of that one person who escaped and became a millionaire. They all repeat stories about Bill Gates, or the founders of this or that other company working hard and achieving the American Dream.

The problem in America is unparalleled ignorance for a first world country. They've brainwashed poor people into thinking that lower taxes and the social services/health care/education cuts that come along with lower taxes help them, or at the very least that taxes should be low so that when they achieve the American dream of becoming rich, they won't have "half" taken away by the government.
It’s not always about money. But I’ve said that over and over again but cool, I’m brainwashed :tup:

Neither of you live here but lecture us. Why?
 

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