'Murica! (152 Viewers)

[Maddy]

It does

It doesn't. Social/economic mobility is remarkable low, and that is in the richest country in the World. Plenty of European and Oceanic societies are far closer to 'the american dream'. The American Dream isn't about creating Zuckerbergs and Bezos. It's about creating equal opportunity for everyone to rise upwards the social and ecomomic ladder.

 

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[Hust]

It does, but only if you are lucky enough to be in the right circumstances. If you're a middle class American with access to healthcare and higher education, the American dream can become a reality. The problem is that a large chunk of people in the country do not get these opportunities.

I grew up in rural Ohio below the poverty line. Parents often worked two jobs but eventually broke the barrier as I was as becoming a teenager. Parents provided what they could and I did the rest (scholarship, loans, etc). Before people bring the argument of race or color I’ve seen plenty of people in similar circumstances break the barrier and become very successful.

 

[X Æ A-12]

I grew up in rural Ohio below the poverty line. Parents often worked two jobs but eventually broke the barrier as I was as becoming a teenager. Parents provided what they could and I did the rest (scholarship, loans, etc). Before people bring the argument of race or color I’ve seen plenty of people in similar circumstances break the barrier and become very successful.

 

[Ronn]

I grew up in rural Ohio below the poverty line. Parents often worked two jobs but eventually broke the barrier as I was as becoming a teenager. Parents provided what they could and I did the rest (scholarship, loans, etc). Before people bring the argument of race or color I’ve seen plenty of people in similar circumstances break the barrier and become very successful.

You must've started college in late 90s, right? The cost of college is more than doubled, even when adjusted by inflation.
https://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/tuition-fees-room-and-board-over-time
healthcare costs have also increased. What you achieved may not be as achievable today as it was then.

 

[Post Ironic]

It’s not always about money. But I’ve said that over and over again but cool, I’m brainwashed

Neither of you live here but lecture us. Why?

I wasn't calling you, specifically, brainwashed

The impoverished are brainwashed to some degree in most first world countries. In America, the main difference I have noticed is that the the impoverished (generalizing of course) don't realize just how manipulated they are.

I think it's admirable and impressive what you have done personally through hard work and motivation. At the same time I think it says absolutely nothing about upward social mobility, which America is close to the worst for in the entire first world.

And yes, it's not always about money exclusively, but money plays a part in everything in the modern world unfortunately. Unless you can still go take a claim on unused land

 

[lgorTudor]

You must've started college in late 90s, right? The cost of college is more than doubled, even when adjusted by inflation.
https://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/tuition-fees-room-and-board-over-time
healthcare costs have also increased. What you achieved may not be as achievable today as it was then.

Cost of college? Wait a second, are you implying young people can't get a higher education for free? Why not? How is this possible

 

[Hust]

You must've started college in late 90s, right? The cost of college is more than doubled, even when adjusted by inflation.
https://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/tuition-fees-room-and-board-over-time
healthcare costs have also increased. What you achieved may not be as achievable today as it was then.

Well considering i got my masters in 2016 and graduatews undergrad 10 years before that...I too pay high tuition but I also had athletic scholarship that I earned as well.

 

[ALC]

You must've started college in late 90s, right? The cost of college is more than doubled, even when adjusted by inflation.
https://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/tuition-fees-room-and-board-over-time
healthcare costs have also increased. What you achieved may not be as achievable today as it was then.

I went to college in 09 and I’d say I’ve been doing alright for myself. Too many people pick stupid majors with no future and expect to make bank once they graduate. And it’s not like I was established at all. Moved to US in ‘04 with my parents starting entry level blue collar jobs. Now they own their own house and helped put me through college. It’s doable, it’s not easy but it’s not supposed to be.

 

[Hust]

I wasn't calling you, specifically, brainwashed

The impoverished are brainwashed to some degree in most first world countries. In America, the main difference I have noticed is that the the impoverished (generalizing of course) don't realize just how manipulated they are.

I think it's admirable and impressive what you have done personally through hard work and motivation. At the same time I think it says absolutely nothing about upward social mobility, which America is close to the worst for in the entire first world.

And yes, it's not always about money exclusively, but money plays a part in everything in the modern world unfortunately. Unless you can still go take a claim on unused land

Funny you mention land

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...to-mining-claims-under-1872-law-idUSKBN1FK1MA

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I went to college in 09 and I’d say I’ve been doing alright for myself. Too many people pick stupid majors with no future and expect to make bank once they graduate. And it’s not like I was established at all. Moved to US in '04 with my parents starting entry level blue collar jobs. Now they own their own house and helped put me through college. It’s doable, it’s not easy but it’s not supposed to be.

100%

Congrats to the family and yourself by the way. That’s what I like to hear.

 

[Ronn]

I went to college in 09 and I’d say I’ve been doing alright for myself. Too many people pick stupid majors with no future and expect to make bank once they graduate. And it’s not like I was established at all. Moved to US in '04 with my parents starting entry level blue collar jobs. Now they own their own house and helped put me through college. It’s doable, it’s not easy but it’s not supposed to be.

Did your parents move here with a college degree?
I'm with you on people picking stupid majors. I also agree that unconditional federal student loans might have impacted this, and college costs in general. But look at the state contribution to college budgets in past few years. There's no doubt it's getting harder to make it, despite stock market smashing records.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...han-state-governments/?utm_term=.8ee38e18cbde

 

[king Ale]

which for example?

There are very many of them At this point though any that would allow me to see my parents.

 

[Ronn]

Well considering i got my masters in 2016 and graduatews undergrad 10 years before that...I too pay high tuition but I also had athletic scholarship that I earned as well.

Well done. But athletic scholarships are only available to 2% of high school graduates.

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There are very many of them At this point though any that would allow me to see my parents.

 

[Hust]

Well done. But athletic scholarships are only available to 2% of high school graduates.

Great point. Do you know how long (years) and how hard I worked to be part of that 2%? How many odd jobs I worked to pay for my equipment so my parents didn’t have to? Paid for my own ticket to germany when I was invited to train with Bayer L. Also graduated with honors in HS, college and Masters. Do you see a trend here?

 

[Ronn]

Great point. Do you know how long (years) and how hard I worked to be part of that 2%? How many odd jobs I worked to pay for my equipment so my parents didn’t have to? Paid for my own ticket to germany when I was invited to train with Bayer L. Also graduated with honors in HS, college and Masters. Do you see a trend here?

I think you skipped that "well done" part dude. Obviously you did great. But that doesn't change the fact that 2% is still 2%.

 

[Hust]

I think you skipped that "well done" part dude. Obviously you did great. But that doesn't change the fact that 2% is still 2%.

I know man, I got it thank you very much. My point was to show that if the hard work is there (as ALC says more or less) then you will get opportunities (or at least more than you would if you sat around waiting for something to happen).

 

[Ronn]

I know man, I got it thank you very much. My point was to show that if the hard work is there (as ALC says more or less) then you will get opportunities.

Oh no doubt. I moved to this country 10 years ago and I'm doing alright too. My point is, it's getting harder and harder. I observed first hand how scholarships got cut in my school. I also saw how rents shot up in that college town just because some fancy college housing were built. If I can see with my brief experience in this country I can only imagine how it changed since 3 decades ago.

 

[Hust]

Oh no doubt. I moved to this country 10 years ago and I'm doing alright too. My point is, it's getting harder and harder. I observed first hand how scholarships got cut in my school. I also saw how rents shot up in that college town just because some fancy college housing were built. If I can see with my brief experience in this country I can only imagine how it changed since 3 decades ago.

 

[king Ale]

What's wrong with being proud of your nationality (not that I agree with it)? Even if you weren't part of the achievements of your country, it's a part of who you are.

Like you can be proud of other things about yourself that you didn't achieve. For example, you can be proud of being good looking or intelligent. You know, things you were born with.

Or you can be proud of your little brother for his success in exams, even if you didn't contribute to it.

"Pride is a feeling of satisfaction which you have because you or people close to you have done something good or possess something good."

So I can see how Hustini could get a feeling of satisfaction believing he's a part of what he thinks is a great nation, even if he was lucky for it to happen.

I don't see how you can be proud OR ashamed of something you had no say in. When you use pride or shame for things you didn't have a role in, you are basically forging a link between a reality and your "self", probably (and in both pride and shame cases imo) because you don't have anything concrete to truthfully credit yourself with.

 

[Maddy]

Pre-financial crisis, a crisis that only made things worse: https://www.forbes.com/2007/10/09/a...t-dream1007-cx_pm_1009class.html#1dafb790ad5a

The European class system has been buffeted by centuries of social turmoil--the church lost its lands, industrial revolutions muscled in on the landed aristocracy, enfranchisement became widespread. It has adapted as best it could--in the 19th century the marriage of American heiresses to impoverished British peers became a U.S. export industry--but increasingly class in Europe is more style than substance.

Class is changing yet again, and the new incarnation of the class-society is at its most advanced in the U.S. A good education is now the most important determinate of class, and in America access to good schools--whether private or public--is increasingly reserved for the well-to-do.

Homes located in decent school districts are often dramatically more expensive than those near mediocre schools. And the very richest now almost exclusively opt to send their offspring to private prep schools at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars a year.

As a result, since the 1980s, the wealthy have been living increasingly segregated lives from the general population to secure those advantages. And it is paying off: The proportion of upper-middle-class students at top American universities is increasing, regardless of diversity programs.

Merit (ability plus hard work) was always meant to replace the inherited privilege of the Old World as the route to the top in America. But merit in modern America is at least partly class-based.

While a few high achievers scale the summits of wealth, the rest are finding it harder to move up from one economic class to another. One study by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston found that fewer families moved from one quintile, or fifth, of the income ladder to another during the 1980s than during the 1970s, and that still fewer moved in the '90s than in the '80s.

In America, the problem is amplified by widening income inequalities. The rich are simply getting richer so much faster that social mobility can't keep up.

The much narrower income gaps in European economies are one reason that, contrary to many Americans' beliefs, there is more social mobility in Britain and other European countries these days than in the U.S. Take Britain, the original class-society in the minds of most Americans. The popular image of Britain remains one of a nation of landed aristocracy where class is the weft and warp of society. In fact, that started to change after World War II.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-dangerous-separation-of-the-american-upper-middle-class/

In the long run, an even bigger threat might be posed by the perpetuation of upper middle class status over the generations. There is intergenerational 'stickiness’ at the bottom of the income distribution; but there is at least as much at the other end, and some evidence that the U.S. shows particularly low rates of downward mobility from the top. When status becomes more strongly inherited, inequality hardens into stratification, open societies start to close up, and class distinctions sharpen.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I don't see how you can be proud OR ashamed of something you had no say in. When you use pride or shame for things you didn't have a role in, you are basically forging a link between a reality and your "self", probably (and in both pride and shame cases imo) because you don't have anything concrete to truthfully credit yourself with.

If you were at your sister's graduation ceremony, wouldn't you feel pride as you watched her receive her certificate? Or couldn't you understand how someone would feel pride in a situation like that?

Also if you're proud about something, it doesn't mean you're taking or expect credit for it.

As for shame, can't you think of many things one could be ashamed about that is not necessarily their fault, like being poor?