Is this the new Juve? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Martin
- Start date
I dont think so, the old Juve would have been 15p ahead of where we are now and at the mean time still competing in the cup and CL.
And of course with a far more competitive first eleven squad (with at least 4-5 WC players)
Lucky us serie A has never been in such a bad shape...
As we are now, we cannot compete in europe vs decent teams and as we have preferred mediocrity, nationalism and quantity over quality, we are many years ahead of building a truly competitive team, like the old Juve.
We ve exchanged strategical advantages for some pointless temporary tactical ones.
We need many years and hundred of millions to build a team like the old Juve.
And of course with a far more competitive first eleven squad (with at least 4-5 WC players)
Lucky us serie A has never been in such a bad shape...
As we are now, we cannot compete in europe vs decent teams and as we have preferred mediocrity, nationalism and quantity over quality, we are many years ahead of building a truly competitive team, like the old Juve.
We ve exchanged strategical advantages for some pointless temporary tactical ones.
We need many years and hundred of millions to build a team like the old Juve.
I ve explained in great detail which are those strategical advantage in the past 5 years
(generally it has to do with the quantity>over quality strategy we have adopted)
As for the 15p, c mon, i didnt meant that literally, (obviously, thats why i picked such a big number) even if it was mathematically possible, (maybe 15p by the end of the season, but thats not my point anyways)
(generally it has to do with the quantity>over quality strategy we have adopted)
As for the 15p, c mon, i didnt meant that literally, (obviously, thats why i picked such a big number) even if it was mathematically possible, (maybe 15p by the end of the season, but thats not my point anyways)
I understand that, I was just busting your chops.
But I do think that it will take a couple of more years, provided that the transfer market is done wisely. (2010 was largely disappointing, with the exceptions of matri, Quag, Storari and believe it or not, Pepe. 2011 has brought an infusion of quality with the likes of Pirlo, Vidal, Vucinic, Lichsteiner). If the next 2 mercatos are similar to this year's version, then it is just a matter of time until juve get back to where they are accustomed to.
All things being equal, this squad as it currently stands would get crushed in Europe. But none of us need to worry about that right now. However, if things go according to plan and they make the CL, there should be a couple of truly quality additions to the squad, all the while ridding themselves of the deadwood on the squad. Yeah, i'm looking at you Amauri, Toni, and Iaquinta.
I do think that the key to this resurgence is based on 2 players not named Andrea Pirlo.
Claudio marchisio looks like he has finally matured into the type of player that everyone had hoped for, the type of player that some of the larger EPL squads were looking to obtain, even if a lot of us (myself included) didn't see what the fuss was all about.
The other is Alessandro Matri. As one of the few here who were genuinely excited about his arrival, I think that everyone can see the type of player he is. Not just his goal scoring rate, but his passing ability, his intelligence on the pitch (Does anyone remember the last time he's done anything remotely stupid out there?), his movement and anticipation, especially when it comes to taking the proper angles at just the right time.
Claudio marchisio looks like he has finally matured into the type of player that everyone had hoped for, the type of player that some of the larger EPL squads were looking to obtain, even if a lot of us (myself included) didn't see what the fuss was all about.
The other is Alessandro Matri. As one of the few here who were genuinely excited about his arrival, I think that everyone can see the type of player he is. Not just his goal scoring rate, but his passing ability, his intelligence on the pitch (Does anyone remember the last time he's done anything remotely stupid out there?), his movement and anticipation, especially when it comes to taking the proper angles at just the right time.
we really need about 5-6 WC to compete with the 10-15 best european teams out there.
Apart from Licht, none of our current starters could start ahead of Capello's starters.
And even that old competitive Juve would have a harder job vs these overdoped Barcas,Reals, Mans, Cheleas etc
With all due respect to the current crop, their honest efforts and future potential, they are not Vieria, Emerson, Canna, Neddy, Camo, DP, Treze etc
And those guys could make the difference vs top competition and win smth, even if the rest of the team was just great.
Atm we dont have a basis to build upon, apart from Chie, Buffon and Licht (Pirlo one more year, hopefully Marchisio too if he steps up and Matri maybe) thats about it. The rest are mere subs and not difference makers and the current basis are more like great fillers, but not WC different makers.
Even if we assume that we buy 2 WC players /season, we still need 3 seasons to build a full squad of very competitive first eleven.
With the money we already spent, we ought to have that already, but we instead opted to reinvest everything on CMs and SS only, each and every year and share the rest to mediocre subs, that cant be used as subs in a highly competitive team.
The rest
Apart from Licht, none of our current starters could start ahead of Capello's starters.
And even that old competitive Juve would have a harder job vs these overdoped Barcas,Reals, Mans, Cheleas etc
With all due respect to the current crop, their honest efforts and future potential, they are not Vieria, Emerson, Canna, Neddy, Camo, DP, Treze etc
And those guys could make the difference vs top competition and win smth, even if the rest of the team was just great.
Atm we dont have a basis to build upon, apart from Chie, Buffon and Licht (Pirlo one more year, hopefully Marchisio too if he steps up and Matri maybe) thats about it. The rest are mere subs and not difference makers and the current basis are more like great fillers, but not WC different makers.
Even if we assume that we buy 2 WC players /season, we still need 3 seasons to build a full squad of very competitive first eleven.
With the money we already spent, we ought to have that already, but we instead opted to reinvest everything on CMs and SS only, each and every year and share the rest to mediocre subs, that cant be used as subs in a highly competitive team.
The rest
This is just a poor excuse and history has proven it when we had CL, heck, we even ranked 2nd and still had a couple of champions in our squad that could help us lure in more.
But it was never our intention to build a competitive squad like the one. We preferred cheaper one.
Some choices, like spending 15mil on Vucinic (good but not WC) for ex, when we already have Matri and Quaq (good but not WC) demonstrate the lack of (highest level) ambition and our short sight views.
Matri may or may not evolve into WC, and quaq can be a decent sub, to a WC starter, why spend 15mil on Vucinic and 15mil on Quaq, instead of 30 to WC player???
Why spend those annual 15-25 mil each and every year on CMs and SSs only, when you intend to build up a full squad of WC starters??
It makes no sense, unless you actually dont intend to...
But it was never our intention to build a competitive squad like the one. We preferred cheaper one.
Some choices, like spending 15mil on Vucinic (good but not WC) for ex, when we already have Matri and Quaq (good but not WC) demonstrate the lack of (highest level) ambition and our short sight views.
Matri may or may not evolve into WC, and quaq can be a decent sub, to a WC starter, why spend 15mil on Vucinic and 15mil on Quaq, instead of 30 to WC player???
Why spend those annual 15-25 mil each and every year on CMs and SSs only, when you intend to build up a full squad of WC starters??
It makes no sense, unless you actually dont intend to...
5-6 
We don't need anyone for midfield starter, maybe 1 WC CB or LB, 1 very good LB/CB and a WC attacker for the right.
We don't need anyone for midfield starter, maybe 1 WC CB or LB, 1 very good LB/CB and a WC attacker for the right.
(unless you think that Pepe, Pirlo, Marchisio and Vidal can actually beat them and all they need is hummels bor Bonucci and one more guy.)
lets be honest, when we won the cl in 1996 we didn't exactly have 5 or 6 world class players. When Greece won the european championships in 2004 they didnt even have 1 world class player let alone 5 or 6. This hypothesis that we need 5 or 6 world class players in order to compete in europe is quite frankly flawed, if that wasnt the case then real madrid would be at least in the finals every year for the past 10 years, call me old fashioned but spirit, unity, and mental strength goes further than a collection of individually talented players in my books, and this season so far has proved that. we do need to improve certain areas, but to replace half the team with world class talent wont necessarily be the answer
Greece is an exception not the rule.
And when we won it, we had a better coach than many others and NT football is quite different than club football.
Of course i do not underestimate the mandatory requirement of strength of will, but this is not enough to win it.
If you remember, when we were strong, we were still losing to random weaker teams.
But its there was a different team, because their odds were too small to provide them regular appearance to final stages of competition, but their numbers were great and thats the only advantage the small teams have.
It is not a miracle for smaller teams to win bigger teams, if their number is far greater than the best ones.
Because someone has to win and their collective odds add up to smth concrete, despite their individual insignificance.
As fans of a now small team, we dont care about the odds of all the smaller teams, we only care about our individual chances.
Chances are that one day, one of the many weaker teams, of the current Juve league may win the CL, but it counts for nothing, as far as we are concerned, if it is not us. To increase our chances, we need to be as closer to the top as we can be.
The top clubs have many WC players in their squad and even then, there is no certainty for anything, but the chances they have individually are far greater than most of the other, if they are compared directly.
If Barca buys a new Villa and Fabregas at this x-mas, it doesnt mean that they will automatically win the CL, despite already having the best team in Europe.
We are not going to buy 2 such players in the next decades imagine our odds, comparing our current basis to their current basis.
This is how you see things objectively, not by a collective chance for a random small team to get lucky.
This is why i consider us of being miles ahead of where we should.
I still remember the days we were one of the best and i still remember how even one weakling, just one not WC player was enough to matter in a match against the most competitive teams and lessen our chances, as those teams were systematically exploiting those weakness, (lets say Zebi for ex) because we were roughly equal elsewhere) ATM we have weakness they can exploit, far too many and very few players than can make the difference in a WC clash.
So our chances are minimal, there are always chances of course, but i ve seen us losing far too many times with the odds at 80% on our side, to start hoping with a 8% now...
And the saddest part is that, we should really be there by now, after all those hundred of millions spent those 6 years, but we have no one to blame but our selves. Unfortunately, we are still driving on the same path (as shown with the release of 2 25mil player, at Amauri+Melo, the acquisition of 2 15mil players at Vucinic+Vidal, for the same spot, at the same time we loaned out our only 0.5mil LB option.
This is not how you build a competitive team and being out of CL had nothing to do with it...
PS referring to Pirlo, i dont question his current form, but the form he will have after those 3 years we need to add the 6starters we need, by acquiring 2/year. By that time, some pieces of the current basis will be expiring (like Buffon+Pirlo, so that it might take even more than 3 years, without calculating the time needed for all them to blend and optimize teamwork)
And when we won it, we had a better coach than many others and NT football is quite different than club football.
Of course i do not underestimate the mandatory requirement of strength of will, but this is not enough to win it.
If you remember, when we were strong, we were still losing to random weaker teams.
But its there was a different team, because their odds were too small to provide them regular appearance to final stages of competition, but their numbers were great and thats the only advantage the small teams have.
It is not a miracle for smaller teams to win bigger teams, if their number is far greater than the best ones.
Because someone has to win and their collective odds add up to smth concrete, despite their individual insignificance.
As fans of a now small team, we dont care about the odds of all the smaller teams, we only care about our individual chances.
Chances are that one day, one of the many weaker teams, of the current Juve league may win the CL, but it counts for nothing, as far as we are concerned, if it is not us. To increase our chances, we need to be as closer to the top as we can be.
The top clubs have many WC players in their squad and even then, there is no certainty for anything, but the chances they have individually are far greater than most of the other, if they are compared directly.
If Barca buys a new Villa and Fabregas at this x-mas, it doesnt mean that they will automatically win the CL, despite already having the best team in Europe.
We are not going to buy 2 such players in the next decades imagine our odds, comparing our current basis to their current basis.
This is how you see things objectively, not by a collective chance for a random small team to get lucky.
This is why i consider us of being miles ahead of where we should.
I still remember the days we were one of the best and i still remember how even one weakling, just one not WC player was enough to matter in a match against the most competitive teams and lessen our chances, as those teams were systematically exploiting those weakness, (lets say Zebi for ex) because we were roughly equal elsewhere) ATM we have weakness they can exploit, far too many and very few players than can make the difference in a WC clash.
So our chances are minimal, there are always chances of course, but i ve seen us losing far too many times with the odds at 80% on our side, to start hoping with a 8% now...
And the saddest part is that, we should really be there by now, after all those hundred of millions spent those 6 years, but we have no one to blame but our selves. Unfortunately, we are still driving on the same path (as shown with the release of 2 25mil player, at Amauri+Melo, the acquisition of 2 15mil players at Vucinic+Vidal, for the same spot, at the same time we loaned out our only 0.5mil LB option.
This is not how you build a competitive team and being out of CL had nothing to do with it...
PS referring to Pirlo, i dont question his current form, but the form he will have after those 3 years we need to add the 6starters we need, by acquiring 2/year. By that time, some pieces of the current basis will be expiring (like Buffon+Pirlo, so that it might take even more than 3 years, without calculating the time needed for all them to blend and optimize teamwork)
