General News & Politics (41 Viewers)

[Kopanja]

Everything seems scripted. This would be their pretext.

I don't think it's important at all tbh. They can always invent pretexts, any amount they want. Like Russian main channels in 2014 reported that Ukrainian soldiers crucified a boy in the main square of the city of Sloviansk. I am not shitting you.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[AFL_ITALIA]

See Taiwan for example. Taiwan is unofficially recognized (having unofficial diplomatic relations) with the big powers - USA, Germany, France, UK, Japan and this is enough to stop China from doing anything stupid.

Give it a few more months.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

My government is a bunch of cretins, but that's not the point. Do I need to remind you what Putin asked the USA to do? They want NATO to shrink back to the 1997 (I think) size. Do you understand that any bilateral binding defensive pact between Ukraine and NATO-state country is almost the same as Ukraine in NATO?
Like, I am all for that, and even our moron president is. The problem is that it's a fantasy, there is no reason even to discuss it.

- - - Updated - - -



Why are you so sure?

This makes a compelling case, hope he's right, also godspeed

 

[Bjerknes]

I don't think it's important at all tbh. They can always invent pretexts, any amount they want. Like Russian main channels in 2014 reported that Ukrainian soldiers crucified a boy in the main square of the city of Sloviansk. I am not shitting you.

I get that, and I understand they've done some shitty stuff every now and then. But on the other hand, I don't trust every single thing I read about Russia and Putin, especially if it's sourced from someone in Biden's admin - some of the same people who said Russia hacked our elections to install Putin's best friend in the entire world Donald Trump.

 

[Elvin]

I get that, and I understand they've done some shitty stuff every now and then. But on the other hand, I don't trust every single thing I read about Russia and Putin, especially if it's sourced from someone in Biden's admin - some of the same people who said Russia hacked our elections to install Putin's best friend in the entire world Donald Trump.

Trump is not Putin's friend, but he is a kindred spirit in attitude, in crookedness, in bullyiness, in rhetoric, in disregard to laws, facts and science, and in low class.

That's why he liked him.

 

[kao_ray]

Appease? There is not enough Ukraine left to appease for that long.

I don't mean ceding territory. Promises not to join NATO, promises to respect the special status of Lugansk and Donetsk from the Minsk treaty and so on.

 

[Knowah]

I don't mean ceding territory. Promises not to join NATO, promises to respect the special status of Lugansk and Donetsk from the Minsk treaty and so on.

All the while Russia still occupies a part of their country in Crimea. Sounds like a great plan. What could go wrong?

 

[kao_ray]

All the while Russia still occupies a part of their country in Crimea. Sounds like a great plan. What could go wrong?

And what do you suggest?

 

[Enron]

And what do you suggest?

robot jox

 

[Elvin]

And what do you suggest?

Resisting at all costs, through every avenue.

 

[Knowah]

And what do you suggest?

Get Ukraine into the EU if Ukraine wants to be in the EU. Mainland EU needs to stop being scared of Russia.

Last time I checked, Russia isn't even top ten in terms of economies and yet they bully their way around like they're still the USSR of old. They're not a superpower anymore. And nations are drifting from their sphere of influence. Ukraine being a prime example. Allowing a relatively unimportant Russia to put up a show of force and dictate international agreements and terms while the rest of Europe cowers and appeases them only further encourages that behavior.

"Oh no, daddy Russia, don't shut off my gas lines. Yes, conquer more of my neighbors, just please send more gas."

I said this when Crimea occured. The fact that Russia has been allowed to even enter UN discussions or retain their veto status while occupying another country allowed this Ukraine problem to occur. We should be going on eight years of HARSH sanctions on Russia from Crimea. But instead some very stern letters were sent, some European diplomats stood up and said some very stern words of outrage, and everything returned to normal. Russia keeps their UN veto power, Russia still exerts themselves across the former Soviet bloc, and European nations wipe their brow like "thank god we didn't actually have to do anything, now what other dumb rules can we create for our EU members?"

The European appeasement with Crimea, with Georia, it doesn't work because otherwise we wouldn't be in this position again. Appeasement is weakness and Puitn knows it.

Edit: Obviously its a very complicated issue with no easy answers. But sometimes the difficult answers are necessary. Otherwise we're just kicking the can down the road, waiting for the NEXT country to be invaded or have their territory seized. At some point, the UN or EU are going to need to stand up and say no. And maybe that means Ukraine gets into the EU or NATO or whatever and some very stern words are received from Russia because obviously they don't want that. Obviously Russia would prefer all the former Soviet bloc countries would remain isolated and helpless outside the UN/EU sphere where they'd be protected.

 

[Fr3sh]

You should educate yourself if you are that much unaware.

The war in Yemen is extremely disheartening....

 

[Kopanja]

I get that, and I understand they've done some shitty stuff every now and then. But on the other hand, I don't trust every single thing I read about Russia and Putin, especially if it's sourced from someone in Biden's admin - some of the same people who said Russia hacked our elections to install Putin's best friend in the entire world Donald Trump.

I think I understand where you coming from, though it’s a bit weird to me. We don’t hold party affiliations that important here. Ukrainians in general are very libertarian, even anarchystic.

though US internal politics doesn’t change the fact that Russia sees US as the enemy, and it’s not going to change in decades. I don’t know about elections, but ask Hust (I think he is in security) how Russian hackers behave, how much money they’ve extorted from US companies, ask about Solarwinds, Colonial, FireEye. And on top of that, not even for minute think that these hackers are lone-wolfs, not a government employee.

 

[Kopanja]

I don't mean ceding territory. Promises not to join NATO, promises to respect the special status of Lugansk and Donetsk from the Minsk treaty and so on.

Ok, let me add some context here. Russia wants Ukraine to enshrine in it’s constitution that occupied parts of Donetsk and Luhansk have veto on any decision about joining economical, political or military agreements. On top of that they want Ukraine to hold elections there, but doesn’t want to move it’s troops and mercenaries out of this territory. Do you see how fucked up this is?
I think most of the EU governments would piss themselves joyfully if Ukraine agrees to do this. Spice must flow at the end of the day, and the problem could be swiped under the rug for the most of EU.
But for us, appeasing Russia here would most probably mean the end of the line as a country. As naive as it sounds, but weapons and sanctions from western countries is our best chance. We can’t win obviously, but we will try to do it as bloody and as expensive for Russia as possible.

 

[kappa96]

Get Ukraine into the EU if Ukraine wants to be in the EU. Mainland EU needs to stop being scared of Russia.

Last time I checked, Russia isn't even top ten in terms of economies and yet they bully their way around like they're still the USSR of old. They're not a superpower anymore. And nations are drifting from their sphere of influence. Ukraine being a prime example. Allowing a relatively unimportant Russia to put up a show of force and dictate international agreements and terms while the rest of Europe cowers and appeases them only further encourages that behavior.

"Oh no, daddy Russia, don't shut off my gas lines. Yes, conquer more of my neighbors, just please send more gas."

I said this when Crimea occured. The fact that Russia has been allowed to even enter UN discussions or retain their veto status while occupying another country allowed this Ukraine problem to occur. We should be going on eight years of HARSH sanctions on Russia from Crimea. But instead some very stern letters were sent, some European diplomats stood up and said some very stern words of outrage, and everything returned to normal. Russia keeps their UN veto power, Russia still exerts themselves across the former Soviet bloc, and European nations wipe their brow like "thank god we didn't actually have to do anything, now what other dumb rules can we create for our EU members?"

The European appeasement with Crimea, with Georia, it doesn't work because otherwise we wouldn't be in this position again. Appeasement is weakness and Puitn knows it.

Edit: Obviously its a very complicated issue with no easy answers. But sometimes the difficult answers are necessary. Otherwise we're just kicking the can down the road, waiting for the NEXT country to be invaded or have their territory seized. At some point, the UN or EU are going to need to stand up and say no. And maybe that means Ukraine gets into the EU or NATO or whatever and some very stern words are received from Russia because obviously they don't want that. Obviously Russia would prefer all the former Soviet bloc countries would remain isolated and helpless outside the UN/EU sphere where they'd be protected.

At this moment in time there is no way for Ukraine to join the EU. For that to happen a new member needs to be voted by all existing members.
Putin's lap dogs in Hungary and Bulgaria would most certainly veto against their induction.
Orban is a wanna be dictator(He already played the oppressed Hungarian minority in Ukraine card for refusing NATO to station troops in Hungary) and Bulgaria is 90% dependent on Russian gas.

Besides that treaties, border enforcement and a bunch of other stuff would have to be enforced.
It's not going to happen anytime soon unfortunately.

Even now North Macedonia could theoretically become a new member yet I think that Bulgaria keeps refusing using their veto powers.

In case of a war guerrilla war stile is the only chance for Ukraine, like they did in Vietnam against the US and in Afghanistan against the USSR.

 

[Fred]

Dissatisfied is really broad though and the situation in every country is different, i really believe now libya was the biggest loser of the lot, been meaning to share this with you and this a good time as any:

Did foreign countries interfere and are still interfering in Libyan affairs? of course. Are foreign countries taking advantage of the situation in Libya, especially other Arab countries such as Qatar and UAE? Of course. Has Libya become 10 times worse after the events of 2011? No doubt.

Ok, now that we've got that out of the way. I hate how that is used as a smokescreen for how terrible in every single way Gedaffi's regime was. Yes of course in hindsight, Libya's become a lot worse. But lets not be revisionist and try to claim Libya was anything more than one of the most corrupt and poor countries in the Middle East, and that is really saying something. The infrastructure in Libya is shameful for a supposed oil producing country. It was a failed socialist state, where the state owned everything. Healthcare, education are one of the worst in the Arab world. Back in Gedaffi's days, if you broke a couple of bones, you better go to Tunisia.

My parents are Libyan, my whole extended family lives there, prior to 2011 i used to go every summer. I also come from a city where the Geddaffi tribe is from(they live in Sirte and Sebha, I'm from the latter). So when it comes to Libya, i dont really take much stock of what western media, al jazeera or any of those outlets say. I really think people(even our neighbors sometimes) know very little about Libya. I think people don't understand how much of a failed state Libya has always been. That's why videos like this frustrate me, you can talk all you want about the west, the media or whatever other foreign entity. But i want to hear about what it was like for Libyans living in that regime.

- - - Updated - - -

To quote someone i know "Their country is their responsibility"

Yes, and it was a Libyan (Abdel Rahman Shalgam) who went to the security council, and asked NATO and the US to intervene.. If you want to point to the reason Libyans are in this mess, i think the only thing you can say is it was wrong to revolt against Gedaffi in the first place. But by the time NATO and the US was intervening, it was either that, or a massacre was going to happen in Benghazi, the East and Misrata. Even in hindsight, i think NATO interfering was absolutely necessary.

In hindsight, Libya has become much worse, so maybe it might not have been the right time for a regime change. But again, at the point that Nato intervened, there was no going back.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Did foreign countries interfere and are still interfering in Libyan affairs? of course. Are foreign countries taking advantage of the situation in Libya, especially other Arab countries such as Qatar and UAE? Of course. Has Libya become 10 times worse after the events of 2011? No doubt.

Ok, now that we've got that out of the way. I hate how that is used as a smokescreen for how terrible in every single way Gedaffi's regime was. Yes of course in hindsight, Libya's become a lot worse. But lets not be revisionist and try to claim Libya was anything more than one of the most corrupt and poor countries in the Middle East, and that is really saying something. The infrastructure in Libya is shameful for a supposed oil producing country. It was a failed socialist state, where the state owned everything. Healthcare, education are one of the worst in the Arab world. Back in Gedaffi's days, if you broke a couple of bones, you better go to Tunisia.

My parents are Libyan, my whole extended family lives there, prior to 2011 i used to go every summer. I also come from a city where the Geddaffi tribe is from(they live in Sirte and Sebha, I'm from the latter). So when it comes to Libya, i dont really take much stock of what western media, al jazeera or any of those outlets say. I really think people(even our neighbors sometimes) know very little about Libya. I think people don't understand how much of a failed state Libya has always been. That's why videos like this frustrate me, you can talk all you want about the west, the media or whatever other foreign entity. But i want to hear about what it was like for Libyans living in that regime.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, and it was a Libyan (Abdel Rahman Shalgam) who went to the security council, and asked NATO and the US to intervene.. If you want to point to the reason Libyans are in this mess, i think the only thing you can say is it was wrong to revolt against Gedaffi in the first place. But by the time NATO and the US was intervening, it was either that, or a massacre was going to happen in Benghazi, the East and Misrata. Even in hindsight, i think NATO interfering was absolutely necessary.

In hindsight, Libya has become much worse, so maybe it might not have been the right time for a regime change. But again, at the point that Nato intervened, there was no going back.

It is not a smokescreen there's no regime toppling without west interference, where's the democracy in that? Did most people want Gaddafi gone? I'm not so sure. It's funny but the libyans i know and worked with who lived in libya seemed to like it just fine and it was certainly not a poor country, as a matter of fact a lot of Arabs/subsaharans moved there for work.
I, like you cheered on Gaddafi getting toppled and killed but i can see clearly that was an idiotic decision that proved to be fatal for all libyans. When you contemplate action, It doesn't matter how terrible or bad something is, what matters is the tradeoff.

 

[Fred]

It is not a smokescreen there's no regime toppling without west interference, where's the democracy in that? Did most people want Gaddafi gone? I'm not so sure. It's funny but the libyans i know and worked with who lived in libya seemed to like it just fine and it was certainly not a poor country, as a matter of fact a lot of Arabs/subsaharans moved there for work.
I, like you cheered on Gaddafi getting toppled and killed but i can see clearly that was an idiotic decision that proved to be fatal for all libyans. When you contemplate action, It doesn't matter how terrible or bad something is, what matters is the tradeoff.

That's true. But then again, was it ever a fair battle? Gedaffi's regime against people?

The second part? like it? how? really? what did they like about it? I mean our infrastructure is not even comparable to Tunisia or Morocco despite being a richer country than both, and despite those countries not really being examples to aspire to either. Did your friends go to school in Libya? how was that like? If they lived in Libya? ask them if they went to Libyan hospitals when they had any semi serious illness or condition?

Libya always has been a shithole. That's why my parents left and never went back 30 years ago.

 

[Valerio.]

Dissatisfied is really broad though and the situation in every country is different, i really believe now libya was the biggest loser of the lot, been meaning to share this with you and this a good time as any:

I like his work a lot didn't think he was known outside of youtube Italy

 

[Bjerknes]

- - - Updated - - -

It's on.



- - - Updated - - -

Buttons are being pushed