Egypt: from 2011 demonstrations to today (20 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

There is no such thing as a "misuse" of freedom provided it doesn't harm other individuals.

This is why the Middle East fails.

 

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[Zé Tahir]

Hey man, if one wants to have a serious conversation about freedom and rights, well these things come up.

Maybe this isn't the time for it. But then again, maybe it is.

But now you are just running away from the problem, first you set out to reassure Snoop that everything is wonderful and now you basically say "well we are the majority so we will tell the others what to do". Not quite as reassuring as your first attempt imo.

I don't hear you criticize a Western supported dictator who has not allowed this freedom you speak of for the past 30 years but you're the first to jump in and show concern for whether a more democratic Egypt will allow this freedom.

 

[Naggar]

The middleeast fails because the people are lazy, weak, unfocused, careless and uneducated

1000 years ago we Muslims were the opposite of all that and homosexuality was a major sin, but we were the world's pioneers

 

[Bjerknes]

That's the problem. This whole "sin" thing. As long as you are forced to obey a single religion, you don't have freedom.

 

[Naggar]

We're not forced to obey

people among us who take Islam in this way are the reason it fails and appears as Taliban
nothing in Quran tells you to bomb yourself, a man who does it obviously is forced to obey

 

[Mohad]

Really glad to see Bisco, Wahdan and Naggar again. Stay safe brothers, my heart with you.

The longer the present government stays in power, the more likely a civil war becomes. Unfortunately most of those who lose will be the people who want freedom the most. Sadly, many will be sacrificed. Timing is of the essence.

 

[Bisco]

rebel, and naggar what do u make of this:

http://wikileaks-a.blogspot.com/2011/01/blog-post_30.html

to be honest i think this makes perfect sense. i'm still not home but when i get back to my place iw ill tell u guys my entire expierence and there are a few things i need to correct for u reb regarding certain incidents that happened. example the f-16 fly arounds.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

rebel, and naggar what do u make of this:

http://wikileaks-a.blogspot.com/2011/01/blog-post_30.html

to be honest i think this makes perfect sense. i'm still not home but when i get back to my place iw ill tell u guys my entire expierence and there are a few things i need to correct for u reb regarding certain incidents that happened. example the f-16 fly arounds.

i'm sorry but are you really naive enough to believe that document's authenticity? i am not saying the government didnt pull off some of those tactics but that document is a joke

 

[Naggar]

Yes of course it makes perfect sense.

beside the internet coming back, once I opened facebook I found a bunch of groups pro Mubarak and calling us traitors

for demanding our rights we're now traitors!!

the most thing that angered me is this page:
لا لجمعه الرحيل عشان احنا مش ناكرين الجميل

a page dedicated for hosni, NOW E7NA NAKREEN EL GEMEEL
nefsy a3raf fein el gemeel dah?!?!!! mubarak 3amal eh ba2alo 30 sana 3'er en el 3alam beyet2adem we7na benerga3
nas betmot w dah beyed7ak
i cant believe en fi nas sada2et his speech last night, ba2alo 30 sana beyekdeb w delwa2ty yesada2ooh!! di fe3lan ارض النفاق

i didnt vote for him or anyone else, the majority doesn't want him, why wont he just leave?! when things are this bad they cant get anyworse

 

[Naggar]

rabena yente2em menhom kolohom
ya rab

 

[.zero]

Bisco, Wangan and Naggar

Keep it real fellas

 

[Naggar]

This is only getting worse, the government sent thousands of armed of people to attack protests, the army is letting it happen and everywhere is rumours and hypocrites

some of my friends actually fell into those lies, one of them wrote "Mubarak, leave. we don't deserve you"
can you believe that?! now he's pharaon sent from God but we're not good enough for him!

and no my friend wasn't sarcastic, he believes the protestors are traitors!

this has become a nightmare and I feel horrible

 

[Naggar]

I don't know who to believe, everywhere there are lies and hypocrites

 

[Naggar]

This is what you get for demanding your basic rights:
I wonder how will he feel when he knows that some think he's a traitor

 

[Fake Melo]

Thats so sad and fucked up. Mubarak should leave if he has any sense at all.

 

[Naggar]

Protestor begging army soldier to protect others, soldier can't do nothing about it

 

[Naggar]

Police attacking protestors during prayer with water

and this is called a muslim country

 

[Dragon]

rebel, and naggar what do u make of this:

http://wikileaks-a.blogspot.com/2011/01/blog-post_30.html

to be honest i think this makes perfect sense. i'm still not home but when i get back to my place iw ill tell u guys my entire expierence and there are a few things i need to correct for u reb regarding certain incidents that happened. example the f-16 fly arounds.

I'm glad you guys are fine!!!!

 

[Martin]

No I'm not running away at all! but I swear there's enough in my head
a few weeks ago I would've went deep in a debate like this

perhaps things aren't wonderful in your eyes in a true Islamic country, but then again you have a country and you get to choose how it's run
so if I'm a Muslim in France, and my veiled daughters are not allowed to wear their veils in schools, what can I do? nothing
if I said anything they'll say that maybe I should follow the rules of the country or leave!
so I'll live in an Islamic country, the homosexual will face the same problem, and may have to leave

so everyone can choose where he wants to live and be happy, but the problems is with minorities who feel home in a Muslim country, like snoop or Christians in Egypt

History speaking, when Islam came to Egypt, Christians were being slaughtered by Romans and Islam saved them, protected them and gave them freedom
we do offer freedom in religion and we're the only religion in the 3 that respects all other religions, but then again all religions are against homosexuality.

of course everything I mentioned would happen in a perfect world, that's why when Islamic movements arise, you'll find lots of extremests and hypocrites in them, who'll give a bad image obviously, and that's whats happening.

My point is that maybe you shouldn't paint such a rosy picture as you did before "freedom for everyone", when in fact that's not true. So Islamic societies of x centuries ago treated other religious communities better than other societies did at the time, fine. But that is not sufficient to claim that it is some kind of superb model when in fact it still has serious flaws. Same goes for Mo's fabled ideal society.

Notice that what we're talking about here is the ideal. Ideals never become realized. Yet even so there are groups being oppressed, and that's not very different from Ahmadinejad saying "there are no homosexuals in Iran". Pretend the problem doesn't exist.

A just society doesn't tell some of its citizens "maybe you should leave the country", do you disagree?

I don't hear you criticize a Western supported dictator who has not allowed this freedom you speak of for the past 30 years but you're the first to jump in and show concern for whether a more democratic Egypt will allow this freedom.

Ze, I enjoy your input as always, but you're missing the point. I'm not singing the praises of Mubarak or any other leader. I'm saying this "promised land" vision isn't all that some claim it to be. And Snoop has a very good point to question the prospect of a theocracy, whether you're talking about historical societies or ideal ones.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Ze, I enjoy your input as always, but you're missing the point. I'm not singing the praises of Mubarak or any other leader. I'm saying this "promised land" vision isn't all that some claim it to be. And Snoop has a very good point to question the prospect of a theocracy, whether you're talking about historical societies or ideal ones.

Fair enough but I think Egyptians should be able to decide their future, whatever that may be and I don't believe there's a quick fix to this but what they have now clearly isn't working and hasn't worked for a long time.