Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (26 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dinsdale
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Big F'n deal i'm black listed by some one i hold in no regard
---------- Post added 09.06.2012 at 09:06 ----------
You really don't get it? It means give Ceaser( the govt) what is his ( taxes etc) and give God what is his( prayer, reverence and devotion)
---------- Post added 09.06.2012 at 09:08 ----------
Making a person comfortable in their poverty and giving assistance without helping them leave that poverty doesn't move them forward.
“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
― Benjamin Franklin
---------- Post added 09.06.2012 at 09:06 ----------
You really don't get it? It means give Ceaser( the govt) what is his ( taxes etc) and give God what is his( prayer, reverence and devotion)
---------- Post added 09.06.2012 at 09:08 ----------
Making a person comfortable in their poverty and giving assistance without helping them leave that poverty doesn't move them forward.
“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
― Benjamin Franklin
I still have no idea what your point is. Zlatan suggested higher taxation, you said that "isn't Christian". Now you're quoting from the Bible in favor of taxes?
So basically all it takes for the poor to become rich is to plunge them ever deeper into poverty? When does this actually start working, because right now there are just more and more poor people every year.
So basically all it takes for the poor to become rich is to plunge them ever deeper into poverty? When does this actually start working, because right now there are just more and more poor people every year.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
So you want people to be able to get out of poverty? Then give them a chance.
One thing I love about Scandinavia is the free eduaction and the support you get for studying. There are no tuition fees for any university (its paid through taxes) and you can get money every month from the state for studying. You get around 300 euro per month that you do not have to repay and you can get another 500-600 euro student loan which you get with a 2% interest rate on a max 25 years.
Now that is a great way to get out of poverty. You van make your own future, get educated and improve your life. Your parents dont have to have money, you dont have to work 8 shitty jobs and you can still study.
Isnt that much fairer and allows bigger mobility between social classes? But that would require taxes to be paid, so Im sure you'd be against it and keep thr current system where the families that have money can afford to send their kids to college while the poor ones stay poor.
So you want people to be able to get out of poverty? Then give them a chance.
One thing I love about Scandinavia is the free eduaction and the support you get for studying. There are no tuition fees for any university (its paid through taxes) and you can get money every month from the state for studying. You get around 300 euro per month that you do not have to repay and you can get another 500-600 euro student loan which you get with a 2% interest rate on a max 25 years.
Now that is a great way to get out of poverty. You van make your own future, get educated and improve your life. Your parents dont have to have money, you dont have to work 8 shitty jobs and you can still study.
Isnt that much fairer and allows bigger mobility between social classes? But that would require taxes to be paid, so Im sure you'd be against it and keep thr current system where the families that have money can afford to send their kids to college while the poor ones stay poor.
Firstly he said that taxation as a form of charity, and I said it isn't charity because its forced. Secondly if you look at Franklins statement and for example look at the great depression people forced their way upward and out of poverty. Ever since the welfare state was created people sit in that poverty with food stamps, and government assistance for generations, never moving upward because their poverty becomes comfortable.
The education idea if it works is excellent but in the US for example a person who pays 10,000 a year in property taxes sends almost 9 of that to education and that is only for grades 1-12. The us ranks low in all academics, we keep throwing money into the system and the kids get stupider. Then forget about college and or university studies, it cost the average american child 40,000 a year.
My father came to this country with me and my mother in tow, and 100 US dollars, he barely spoke the language and busted his ass. We now are upper middle class people and he never once used assistance, food stamps or any other government hand out. He built our restaurant out of nothing and the wealth our family has in the same manner. He had every possible obstacle in front of him and he did it , without a hand out or joining the mafia or selling drugs etc so if he did it with a high school education from another country , why can't citizens of this country do it with an education here?
My father came to this country with me and my mother in tow, and 100 US dollars, he barely spoke the language and busted his ass. We now are upper middle class people and he never once used assistance, food stamps or any other government hand out. He built our restaurant out of nothing and the wealth our family has in the same manner. He had every possible obstacle in front of him and he did it , without a hand out or joining the mafia or selling drugs etc so if he did it with a high school education from another country , why can't citizens of this country do it with an education here?
Thats a poor and individual example. Did everybody who came to the US make it? Christiano Ronaldo is one of the best players in the world, has tons of money and everything he could want. if he could do it, why cant other people, instead of being poor and stinking up the place?
AS for taxes, I didnt use the word "charity" but say that they can also be used to help people. For example, you have a man who is sick and has no health insurance and is dying from something that can be cured because he is poor. Lets say you help him out throough charity, you give him some money because he lost his job because of his ilness or you donate some money for his treatment. While on the otherhad you could give him nothing, but pay a 1000 dollars more a year in taxes, which will mean one less iPhone for you while if everyone payed a bit more that man could have free health insurance and be cured before he lost his job and became even more poor.
I personaly dont believe in ad hoc charity, I prefer to pay more taxes and have a probleem solved systematically.
AS for taxes, I didnt use the word "charity" but say that they can also be used to help people. For example, you have a man who is sick and has no health insurance and is dying from something that can be cured because he is poor. Lets say you help him out throough charity, you give him some money because he lost his job because of his ilness or you donate some money for his treatment. While on the otherhad you could give him nothing, but pay a 1000 dollars more a year in taxes, which will mean one less iPhone for you while if everyone payed a bit more that man could have free health insurance and be cured before he lost his job and became even more poor.
I personaly dont believe in ad hoc charity, I prefer to pay more taxes and have a probleem solved systematically.
once again with the taxes, charity is voluntary taxes are not. What your taxes really pay for, nobody really knows, maybe it's meds maybe it's bullets. And the "ad hoc charity" bit only reconfirms that you dont really get the concept of charity. Systematic approach to helping people is community/society based, and often government driven as a justification as you pointed out for taxation. Helping on a personal level and out of choice, that's charity. Someone knocks on your door and they;re hungry you can either choose to help them or tell them to wait for your taxes to trickle down to their bowl.
chosen by?
Not much going on in here....
