Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (24 Viewers)

[AndreaCristiano]

Where's the line that defines it?

It's about action how one comports themselves. How they act toward their God and their neighbor. How they try to adhere to the word of God

 

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[Quetzalcoatl]

It's about action how one comports themselves. How they act toward their God and their neighbor. How they try to adhere to the word of God

I understand that. But everyone does wrong - some more than others. So how can you say that someone who calls himself a Christian isn't a real one?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I understand that. But everyone does wrong - some more than others. So how can you say that someone who calls himself a Christian isn't a real one?

Professing Christ with you're mouth and yet living for you're own desires and selfishness a real Christian you are not. One who is a true Christian lives his life to follow Christ and his edicts. Sure we fall we all fall but we do not live against Gods will and desire and yet still profess ourselves Christians

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Professing Christ with you're mouth and yet living for you're own desires and selfishness a real Christian you are not. One who is a true Christian lives his life to follow Christ and his edicts. Sure we fall we all fall but we do not live against Gods will and desire and yet still profess ourselves Christians

But that's a vague definition, following Christ. What I'm trying to figure out is what constitutes that. Can someone more pious than you say that you're not a real Christian and don't truly live to follow Christ?

 

[X Æ A-12]

But that's a vague definition, following Christ. What I'm trying to figure out is what constitutes that. Can someone more pious than you say that you're not a real Christian and don't truly live to follow Christ?

Of course they can but only god is really in a position to judge.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

But that's a vague definition, following Christ. What I'm trying to figure out is what constitutes that. Can someone more pious than you say that you're not a real Christian and don't truly live to follow Christ?

I'm sure opinion might differ amongst Christians but I don't believe it's that difficult. If I try with my heart and soul to follow the words and edicts of Christ especially the two greatest commandments. " love the lord thy God above all else and love thy neighbor as thy self. " if I strive to serve before being served to be last and not first. To sow peace and not malice to help the least before myself. Then I am a true Christian

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I'm sure opinion might differ amongst Christians but I don't believe it's that difficult. If I try with my heart and soul to follow the words and edicts of Christ especially the two greatest commandments. " love the lord thy God above all else and love thy neighbor as thy self. " if I strive to serve before being served to be last and not first. To sow peace and not malice to help the least before myself. Then I am a true Christian

So it's all about desire and intention? Because some people are weaker than others and can't help but be bad. So then some of the people that you say aren't real Cs, probably are and therefore do represent Christianity, and are hypocrites like the big, bad atheists here.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

So it's all about desire and intention? Because some people are weaker than others and can't help but be bad. So then some of the people that you say aren't real Cs, probably are and therefore do represent Christianity, and are hypocrites like the big, bad atheists here.

Yes but the desire and intention has to be followed by some follow through and actual action. There's the difference. Siting at home an saying I want to do good Christian things and my intent is to an actually doing charity , Christian love etc is the difference.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Yes but the desire and intention has to be followed by some follow through and actual action. There's the difference. Siting at home an saying I want to do good Christian things and my intent is to an actually doing charity , Christian love etc is the difference.

You're avoiding answering the question. These Christians' intentions are to follow Christ, but they inevitably mess up. Everyone does some good and some bad, even these Christians that you disown.

So they've got the intention. They've got the good deeds (perhaps less than you). And they do wrong (perhaps more than you). So they're just like you but to a different extent. Now where is the line (i.e. how much good and how little bad) that makes them a proper Christian?

I know there is no actual definitive answer to that, but I really want to know what parameters you use to decide who is legit and who's not.

Again, they want to follow Jesus. They try to follow Jesus. Their weakness lets them down, but if they're truly sorry, they're forgiven. How are they not real Cs?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

You're avoiding answering the question. These Christians' intentions are to follow Christ, but they inevitably mess up. Everyone does some good and some bad, even these Christians that you disown.

So they've got the intention. They've got the good deeds (perhaps less than you). And they do wrong (perhaps more than you). So they're just like you but to a different extent. Now where is the line (i.e. how much good and how little bad) that makes them a proper Christian?

I know there is no actual definitive answer to that, but I really want to know what parameters you use to decide who is legit and who's not.

Again, they want to follow Jesus. They try to follow Jesus. Their weakness lets them down, but if they're truly sorry, they're forgiven. How are they not real Cs?

No I answered you're not understanding me. True repentance is turning away from sin and trying harder to stop and not repeat the same sins. Also trying everyday to walk closer to Christ So if everyday you sit in the same situation and don't do anything you don't grow as a Christian. Quick little parable. If you see a poor man everyday and you keep saying , my intention is always to help that man but you never do and yet you tell people that you are a champion for the poor the reality is you are not. Now if the opposite holds true and you espouse that moniker yet everyday you do things to help those poor then you are living that life instead of acting like you are

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

But I already said that they're trying hard and they're doing some good deeds...

 

[AndreaCristiano]

But I already said that they're trying hard and they're doing some good deeds...

It's about progression and growth in Christ those things can not be stagnant

 

[Zlatan]

No I answered you're not understanding me. True repentance is turning away from sin and trying harder to stop and not repeat the same sins. Also trying everyday to walk closer to Christ So if everyday you sit in the same situation and don't do anything you don't grow as a Christian. Quick little parable. If you see a poor man everyday and you keep saying , my intention is always to help that man but you never do and yet you tell people that you are a champion for the poor the reality is you are not. Now if the opposite holds true and you espouse that moniker yet everyday you do things to help those poor then you are living that life instead of acting like you are

How about helping that poor man through taxes? Or is that a no-no for American Crhistians (ie Americans)?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

How about helping that poor man through taxes? Or is that a no-no for American Crhistians (ie Americans)?

That's a no no for this American. Besides that doesn't take self sacrifice and actual Christian charity that's a cop out

 

[Martin]

That's a no no for this American. Besides that doesn't take self sacrifice and actual Christian charity that's a cop out

Doesn't take self sacrifice for whom? For you or for the poor person? I'm pretty sure that if you gave him 50% of your income that'd be at least a small self sacrifice on your part.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Doesn't take self sacrifice for whom? For you or for the poor person? I'm pretty sure that if you gave him 50% of your income that'd be at least a small self sacrifice on your part.

No because it's forced. It isn't my choice to give those taxes they are mandated. Also the chance of that 50% actually getting to the poor and not lining the pocket of some politician is very slim

 

[Martin]

No because it's forced. It isn't my choice to give those taxes they are mandated. Also the chance of that 50% actually getting to the poor and not lining the pocket of some politician is very slim

You can still take your money and give it away yourself.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

You can still take your money and give it away yourself.

I do but your question was about charity via taxation and I told you why that isn't Christian. "Give unto Ceaser what is Ceasers, give to God what is God's "

 

[Martin]

I do but your question was about charity via taxation and I told you why that isn't Christian. "Give unto Ceaser what is Ceasers, give to God what is God's "

I have no idea what that means.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I have no idea what that means.

Sorry it's plain as day