Antonio Conte (91 Viewers)

How would you rate Conte's (dis)appointment?

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GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,452
This talk about management's ambition is so irritating. It's nonsensical. Ambition is directly tied to how much oil money you have lying around nowadays. I guess Monaco has more ambition than us because they spent billions of euros in one summer.

If you actually take a look at the teams that have better squads than us you'll find only a couple that are NOT backed by huge billionaire investors. You'll find basically Borussia Dortmund and Atletico Madrid. The rest of the squads that supposedly have ambition are backed by endless supplies of money.

There are a couple like Arsenal and Bayern that are self-sustaining models which is what we are ALSO trying to achieve but it will take longer than 3 years to get to that level from the ashes that this club was in after Calciopoli.

How some people need this to be spelled out for them is shocking.

And it's also irritating to hear this talk about ambition when Conte could only manage 1 win out of 4 games vs. Copenhagen and Galatasaray. Then he quits. Then there are fans on this board blaming management's ambition? Whattttt? I'm sure management had higher ambition than that.
wrong, only psg citeh and chelsea have billionaire sugar daddies, all the rest is self-sustaining. how much did atletico, a seocnd tier team, pay for falcao? And lets stop using calciopoli that was almost a decade ago. The real irritating part is your inability to give straight answers to arguments presented here as far as strategy is concerned. So please enlighten us: by following this strategy of relying on youth and bargain bin nuggets when exactly are we anticipating to close the gap and be a "bayern"?
 

MikeM

Footballing Hipster celebrating 4th place with Tuz
Sep 21, 2008
12,495
wrong, only psg citeh and chelsea have billionaire sugar daddies, all the rest is self-sustaining. how much did atletico, a seocnd tier team, pay for falcao? And lets stop using calciopoli that was almost a decade ago. The real irritating part is your inability to give straight answers to arguments presented here as far as strategy is concerned. So please enlighten us: by following this strategy of relying on youth and bargain bin nuggets when exactly are we anticipating to close the gap and be a "bayern"?
I'm not even sure what your arguments are. Buy lots of 40M players?
 

MikeM

Footballing Hipster celebrating 4th place with Tuz
Sep 21, 2008
12,495
buy a starter a season, chance it with bench, dont play it 'safe'
This is actually the first mercato where we haven't bought multiple starters.

Last year was Tevez/Llorente.

Year before was Asamoah/Pogba.

Year before was Vidal/Lichtsteiner/Pirlo.

I'll wager when we look back at this mercato our starters will be Morata and Coman, and next year it will be Berardi and someone else. But like always, it's not exactly evident at the time.

The thing with bench players and youngsters is that A. They can actually become starters and B. You're guaranteed to make the CL every year:

Because missing the CL is so much more punitive than making the CL semis is rewarding. If you just make it out of the groups every year, you will have a chance to grow as a team. If you make the semis, you can grow a bit faster. If you miss the CL, you're fucked completely. That's why management will never go into a season with a thin bench.

Primavera players on the bench is how you risk missing the CL. Barzagli and Vidal are already hurt. This is why we're going for Luisao. Luisao is literally the safest option for the money that you can find. You make the CL again and keep turning your wheels. If you leave it up to Caceres or Rugani and they're disasters, then we could miss the CL and then Vidal and Pogba get sold.

Another thing with buying high-priced starters and putting current starters on the bench is the wage structure of the team. We can't have 3M-4M wages on the bench at every position like some of these teams do.

You have to buy the likes of Pereyra who can be on the bench or starting for half the season but he's on 1-2M wages for 10 years. Lichtsteiner has been on 2M wages until now, he's 31.
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,710
buy a starter a season, chance it with bench, dont play it 'safe'
They bought two last season, two the year before, and 5 in the 2 years before that.

If they buy a starter again this season, who is getting benched?

Asamoah? Does he DESERVE to be benched?

Vidal, Pogba, or Pirlo? Can't see any reason why they would be benched.


Tevez or Llorente?



The only logical place would be in the defense, and most of the people here are up in arms over the prospect of Juve spending money to buy a starter on the defense?


Where would this starter that you want them to buy, play?


The only way it would work is you would have to change formations for that starter to get into the first XI, and a change in formation could necessitate the need to get yet another starter, such as if Juve were to get Sanchez, they would need another winger to play the 4-3-3 if you want that to be truly effective, for Tevez would only be a temporary thing and would be a misuse of his talents.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,359
Relax and sip another mai-tai
I'm back.
The board's mentality or the poster?

- - - Updated - - -

They bought two last season, two the year before, and 5 in the 2 years before that.

If they buy a starter again this season, who is getting benched?

Asamoah? Does he DESERVE to be benched?

Vidal, Pogba, or Pirlo? Can't see any reason why they would be benched.


Tevez or Llorente?



The only logical place would be in the defense, and most of the people here are up in arms over the prospect of Juve spending money to buy a starter on the defense?


Where would this starter that you want them to buy, play?


The only way it would work is you would have to change formations for that starter to get into the first XI, and a change in formation could necessitate the need to get yet another starter, such as if Juve were to get Sanchez, they would need another winger to play the 4-3-3 if you want that to be truly effective, for Tevez would only be a temporary thing and would be a misuse of his talents.
Great ponts. :tup:
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,452
This is actually the first mercato where we haven't bought multiple starters.

Last year was Tevez/Llorente.

Year before was Asamoah/Pogba.

Year before was Vidal/Lichtsteiner/Pirlo.

I'll wager when we look back at this mercato our starters will be Morata and Coman, and next year it will be Berardi and someone else. But like always, it's not exactly evident at the time.

The thing with bench players and youngsters is that A. They can actually become starters and B. You're guaranteed to make the CL every year:

Because missing the CL is so much more punitive than making the CL semis is rewarding. If you just make it out of the groups every year, you will have a chance to grow as a team. If you make the semis, you can grow a bit faster. If you miss the CL, you're fucked completely. That's why management will never go into a season with a thin bench.

Primavera players on the bench is how you risk missing the CL. Barzagli and Vidal are already hurt. This is why we're going for Luisao. Luisao is literally the safest option for the money that you can find. You make the CL again and keep turning your wheels. If you leave it up to Caceres or Rugani and they're disasters, then we could miss the CL and then Vidal and Pogba get sold.

Another thing with buying high-priced starters and putting current starters on the bench is the wage structure of the team. We can't have 3M-4M wages on the bench at every position like some of these teams do.

You have to buy the likes of Pereyra who can be on the bench or starting for half the season but he's on 1-2M wages for 10 years. Lichtsteiner has been on 2M wages until now, he's 31.
but the understanding here amongst everyone is that our team is by far the best in serie A and that scudetto will be a walk in the park so how we damage our chances of making cl if we pass on morata and pereyra and get a 35-40 mil player? risk will have to be taken and the longer we wait the more risk we actually have to take to close the gap.
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,047
They bought two last season, two the year before, and 5 in the 2 years before that.

If they buy a starter again this season, who is getting benched?

Asamoah? Does he DESERVE to be benched?

Vidal, Pogba, or Pirlo? Can't see any reason why they would be benched.


Tevez or Llorente?



The only logical place would be in the defense, and most of the people here are up in arms over the prospect of Juve spending money to buy a starter on the defense?


Where would this starter that you want them to buy, play?


The only way it would work is you would have to change formations for that starter to get into the first XI, and a change in formation could necessitate the need to get yet another starter, such as if Juve were to get Sanchez, they would need another winger to play the 4-3-3 if you want that to be truly effective, for Tevez would only be a temporary thing and would be a misuse of his talents.
He means a world class starter. Our strikers are really good but far from that good. We have no wingers also. There's plenty of spots we could improve.
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,710
He means a world class starter. Our strikers are really good but far from that good. We have no wingers also. There's plenty of spots we could improve.
I know exactly what he means.


But where do you play this world class starter. Who gets benched?


Let's keep in mind here that the two players form the starting XI who did NOT make the WC this year happen to be the strikers on this club, and they combined for 40 goals between the two of them this year, in their first year at the club. And it could be argued that they both should have been there.


This team all of a sudden did not become a bunch of mid table quality scrubs because the coach left.
 

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,255
They bought two last season, two the year before, and 5 in the 2 years before that.

If they buy a starter again this season, who is getting benched?

Asamoah? Does he DESERVE to be benched?

Vidal, Pogba, or Pirlo? Can't see any reason why they would be benched.


Tevez or Llorente?



The only logical place would be in the defense, and most of the people here are up in arms over the prospect of Juve spending money to buy a starter on the defense?


Where would this starter that you want them to buy, play?


The only way it would work is you would have to change formations for that starter to get into the first XI, and a change in formation could necessitate the need to get yet another starter, such as if Juve were to get Sanchez, they would need another winger to play the 4-3-3 if you want that to be truly effective, for Tevez would only be a temporary thing and would be a misuse of his talents.
Pogba doesn't count as "buying a starter". And neither does Asamoah for that matter. Sure both turned out to be wonderful, but neither was intended to have huge impact on the team.

I would buy a player than can play behind the strikers. In Allegri's system, that seems to be a very important position. Plus it would give Juve another dimension in attack and tactical flexibility in both the 3-5-2 and 4-3-1-2. Seems better than the "we can't affort 50 wingers argument".
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,452
They bought two last season, two the year before, and 5 in the 2 years before that.

If they buy a starter again this season, who is getting benched?

Asamoah? Does he DESERVE to be benched?

Vidal, Pogba, or Pirlo? Can't see any reason why they would be benched.


Tevez or Llorente?



The only logical place would be in the defense, and most of the people here are up in arms over the prospect of Juve spending money to buy a starter on the defense?


Where would this starter that you want them to buy, play?


The only way it would work is you would have to change formations for that starter to get into the first XI, and a change in formation could necessitate the need to get yet another starter, such as if Juve were to get Sanchez, they would need another winger to play the 4-3-3 if you want that to be truly effective, for Tevez would only be a temporary thing and would be a misuse of his talents.
why wouldnt asamoah get benched? marchisio is benched, also asa can play LB nto to mention that if we do switch to a back 4 we will have to sell one of bonucci or ogbonna or even both that would free up cash to get stop gap solutions

and FYI sanchez can play treq
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,710
You know, if this team had simply done its job last year, and did what most pundits expected, which would have been to at least get out of the group stage of the CL, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation right now.
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,047
I know exactly what he means.


But where do you play this world class starter. Who gets benched?


Let's keep in mind here that the two players form the starting XI who did NOT make the WC this year happen to be the strikers on this club, and they combined for 40 goals between the two of them this year, in their first year at the club. And it could be argued that they both should have been there.


This team all of a sudden did not become a bunch of mid table quality scrubs because the coach left.
It doesn't matter who you bench. Neither of Tevez or Llorente are untouchable. We could even sell one of them.

We could bench Bonucci and move to a four men backline which gives us another open spots.

The players we have bar Pogba and Vidal are all easily replaceable
 

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