W can agree it was still a downgrade though, there's a gap in quality between those 2 and what we had before. And then an even bigger gap between them and what we have now.
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Andrea Pirlo (101 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
- Tags the goat of midfield
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Arthur-McKennie-Bentancur has been our go to midfield this season, if I'm not mistaken, we've comfortably (2 goals or more) won all the games these guys started together. And the critical part of that midfield is Arthur and McKennie, Rabiot can fill in for Bentancur, but neither he nor Ramsey have the characteristics of Arthur or McKennie.
A quick example of Coppa hurting our chances in Serie A - we played Arthur, a player that can hardly run for 60 minutes, for full 120 minutes against Genoa in Coppa round of 16 and 3 days later he was logically benched against Inter in our game of the season Serie A match, that game we fielded a midfield of Ramsey-Bentancur-Rabiot lol.
A quick example of Coppa hurting our chances in Serie A - we played Arthur, a player that can hardly run for 60 minutes, for full 120 minutes against Genoa in Coppa round of 16 and 3 days later he was logically benched against Inter in our game of the season Serie A match, that game we fielded a midfield of Ramsey-Bentancur-Rabiot lol.
Who mentioned any of those players? I’ve been talking about our current mids all along. Rabiot, Arthur, Bentancur, Ramsey, even Mckennie... All average. Not really extraordinary at anything.
And regarding Chiesa and Kulu they’re hardly starting material for a CL contender team built around Ronaldo, are they? Not hating on them but they simply aren’t.
And regarding Chiesa and Kulu they’re hardly starting material for a CL contender team built around Ronaldo, are they? Not hating on them but they simply aren’t.
Yes and no. Costa had that one impressive 15/16 season at Bayern (which could've been even better if not for injuries. He was on a roll) then got injured the next. We got him right after that and he was huge on his first season here, especially towards the mid to the end of the season. At that point he was definitely starting material for most clubs, really. Then more injuries and we know the rest.
Of course if we're talking today there's no comparison. Injuries killed Costa's career and Chiesa is only 23 years old, still room for growth.
Of course if we're talking today there's no comparison. Injuries killed Costa's career and Chiesa is only 23 years old, still room for growth.
there is truth behind your words, but a lot is also on coaches shoulders. When I say coaches I mean from Allegri to Pirlo
if your CMs are average..why would you play them as wingers? Ramsey and Mckennie are victims of this. so is Kulu and Chiesa being deployed as forvets and wingbacks. play your players to their strengths. same with dybala as a winger under allegri and sarri. why? why would you play a player who scores most of his goals with deadly left foot in box or around box as a winger?
I can think of so many players that took next step up because they had a coach that believed in them. think of Salah under klopp vs in Roma. Salah under Klopp is a monster of a player. in Roma he was a very good player but nothing like his Liveprool run.
same with Marchisio under Conte and allegri. Marchisio before then was a player that was hot and cold. then under Conte he turned into a beast.
a good coach goes a long way towards getting the best out of the players.
if your CMs are average..why would you play them as wingers? Ramsey and Mckennie are victims of this. so is Kulu and Chiesa being deployed as forvets and wingbacks. play your players to their strengths. same with dybala as a winger under allegri and sarri. why? why would you play a player who scores most of his goals with deadly left foot in box or around box as a winger?
I can think of so many players that took next step up because they had a coach that believed in them. think of Salah under klopp vs in Roma. Salah under Klopp is a monster of a player. in Roma he was a very good player but nothing like his Liveprool run.
same with Marchisio under Conte and allegri. Marchisio before then was a player that was hot and cold. then under Conte he turned into a beast.
a good coach goes a long way towards getting the best out of the players.
I agree. I’ve always said that coaches and their tactics are overrated. Not always but more often than not great players are the ones who will win you titles. Not genius coaching.
Never believed there is such a thing as a genius tactician. On the other hand a great motivator that knows how to psychologically get into his players’ minds and make them follow his instructions is the most important thing imo. Being able to get that morale boosted while having talented guys at his disposal is just the greatest combination you could ask for.
So I do believe if Klopp can make an average dude like Henderson play at his optimal level putting world class performances week in week out, the ones who know (Guardiola too to some extent) how can really make a difference.
Never believed there is such a thing as a genius tactician. On the other hand a great motivator that knows how to psychologically get into his players’ minds and make them follow his instructions is the most important thing imo. Being able to get that morale boosted while having talented guys at his disposal is just the greatest combination you could ask for.
So I do believe if Klopp can make an average dude like Henderson play at his optimal level putting world class performances week in week out, the ones who know (Guardiola too to some extent) how can really make a difference.
Whats really symptomatic to me is how a team managed by Andrea Pirlo rarely makes a long pass behind the oposition defence. And its really frustrating to watch. Many times theoughout a game, you will just notice how the oposition defence is a bit far out, and we have like couple of players ready to run behind them, and they will make a run, and the Juventus player with the ball just doesnt see the pass, or he will see it, not make it, make a short pass and then appologise to the our player who made the run behind the defence. And the guy usually not making the pass is Bentancur, but he is not the only one. And its so fucking anoying. I actually yelled at the TV at one such inatance during thr Spezia game where Benta didnt make auch a pass, and he appologised, i was like "Stop always fucking appologising, make a fucking pass once in your life."
I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of them were sold in the next year or 2.
We have a number of young players. Some of them quite promising.
I just wouldn't say we have a young core. You could argue that our "midfield core" is quite young. But then again, you could also argue that they need to be replaced anyway.
We have a number of young players. Some of them quite promising.
I just wouldn't say we have a young core. You could argue that our "midfield core" is quite young. But then again, you could also argue that they need to be replaced anyway.
We might have a 'young core' but whether they will develop to the level that Juventus expect is an entirely different matter altogether.
I kept hearing about this 'young core' back in 2015 as well and as usual people overrating every young player possible but only a few made it.
Out of this current batch of younger players, at this point I can only see Chiesa and De Ligt being Juventus starting material for years to come.
I kept hearing about this 'young core' back in 2015 as well and as usual people overrating every young player possible but only a few made it.
Out of this current batch of younger players, at this point I can only see Chiesa and De Ligt being Juventus starting material for years to come.
demiral and kulu too
demiral's passing is to be improved; he's already a level above guys of his age in duels. kulu has great abilities, but he's not a cf by any means, and he's been used week in, week out in different positions. with a normal calendar and a consistent position he'd be instantly better. his use of tight spaces and passing around the box is elite material, and his workrate is easily above average too. should improve his holding game asap though.
out of the u23 guys, correia, fagioli, ranocchia, dragusin, peeters and di pardo surely have the potential, much will depend on their mentality. vrioni's injury is a bummer, and i haven't seen aké at all, but he's got a good reputation too. i'd be happy if 2 of these would end up being homegrown squad players for juve.
demiral's passing is to be improved; he's already a level above guys of his age in duels. kulu has great abilities, but he's not a cf by any means, and he's been used week in, week out in different positions. with a normal calendar and a consistent position he'd be instantly better. his use of tight spaces and passing around the box is elite material, and his workrate is easily above average too. should improve his holding game asap though.
out of the u23 guys, correia, fagioli, ranocchia, dragusin, peeters and di pardo surely have the potential, much will depend on their mentality. vrioni's injury is a bummer, and i haven't seen aké at all, but he's got a good reputation too. i'd be happy if 2 of these would end up being homegrown squad players for juve.