I was talking in general how our players are being underrated so heavily by their own supporters, based on little too.
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Will Lack of Creativity Hurt Us This Season? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bjerknes
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Not sure what Juventus you are watching because attacking down the flanks is all we ever do, besides shooting long balls up to the forwards to hold on to. We always have Zambrotta out on the left-wing, available for a pass or sprinting down the flank to make a cross in the box. Camoranesi is always on the right side of the pitch and makes himself available for balls down the wings for him to eventually cross.....he was our assist leader last season with 13 if I remember correctly, most of which crosses from the wings. Nedved cuts inside sometimes to make space available for Zambro. In a straight 4-4-2 system, 80% of your attacks are gonna come from the wings because that is where the movement and space is available. Not sure why we are talking about width here...
As for our forward's creativity....we have Trezeguet who does not do much when he is away from goal, so he is not even capable of creative plays with the ball at his feet. Ibrahimovic, though, is a creative player with the ball at his feet however he is not always able to execute passes and sometimes gives the ball up. And anyway, he's great at holding the ball to buy time for the midfield to come support the forwards....all the support is found towards the wings most of the time. I'm not sure how much fielding creative forwards matter in football as opposed to great goalscorers like Trezeguet and Sheva, however when we lack creativity in midfield we need to find it from somewhere. Again, the easiest way to solve this problem is just buy a creative midfielder who can pass FFS.
As for our forward's creativity....we have Trezeguet who does not do much when he is away from goal, so he is not even capable of creative plays with the ball at his feet. Ibrahimovic, though, is a creative player with the ball at his feet however he is not always able to execute passes and sometimes gives the ball up. And anyway, he's great at holding the ball to buy time for the midfield to come support the forwards....all the support is found towards the wings most of the time. I'm not sure how much fielding creative forwards matter in football as opposed to great goalscorers like Trezeguet and Sheva, however when we lack creativity in midfield we need to find it from somewhere. Again, the easiest way to solve this problem is just buy a creative midfielder who can pass FFS.
Perhaps a little of that, too. But the point I'm trying to make is our midfield duo do not always look for the unpredictable passes or even the difficult passes up through the opposition defense....they are always looking for the simple pass IMO. They also lack the touch to lay beautiful balls on the feet of a forward in traffic, I hate to keep using these players as examples, but something the Xavi's and Pirlo's are always able to execute. And we always seem to play at the same slow pace while going forward, and that is because our midfield never speeds the play up and decides to just make the easy pass. Perhaps that is more of a tactical thing Capello should change, however my point remains.
We are not trying to purposely underrate our players, just trying to show you basically their only weakness they have in midfield....creativity. Vieira and Emerson are world class players, however they both lack one quality that I and others feel is important. Both players have great drive and the ability to always complete a pass, even if it is the simple pass.
I don't want to debate about terminology, since I can see what is Andy's and Jeeks' point and what Dominic and John mean too. I somewhat agree with Andy and Jeeks though, creativity is mostly about vision.
But I still think you people are exaggerating this problem. Yes, Paddy and Puma don't have as good vision as some of the players around, but what they do is offer much more defensive stability and freedom to other player. I see that Juve could have got Pizzarro for example instead of Vieira, but triade rather opted for the French man. One may ask why? The answer is simple, because this is Juve that we are talking about. You guys are asking more spectacular way of playing, but how on earth do you think that's going to happen when Capello is the coach of JUVE? Buying Pizzarro instead of Vieira might have been luxury that would have costed in the long run. Yes, that would have offered more options while attacking in some points, but that also had tied Zambrotta and Émerson to defensive area much more just like last season. Basicly I just see it as changing options to other, not necessarily creating new ones.
Buying Pizzarro would also have made Juve dependent on him, since no one in the squad offers the same kind of improvisation and flashy skills as he. I reckon that would have taken Juve back to Zidane's era, while Juve were much too dependent of ZZ. Yes, it was more of a "cool" way of playing, but surely it wasn't as effective as Juve's current tactics.
I don't see this problem with creativity that as large as some of you. And some of you people still claim that it might cost as in the CL. I see it rather on the contrary, Champions League is pretty much about defensive plays. One says that lack of attacking options costed Juve against 'Pool last year, and his probably right. But what makes one think that it'd cost us again?! May I remind you that replacing Blasi with Vieira offers more of defensive stability, but more attacking options too. People say that Juve can't do a thing when they're one down, but the thing is that I can't see Juve letting themselves one down.
I don't think that loading more to attacking options would help, since triade and Capello were smart, they loaded more on both sections, attacking and defensive. I know that flashy style of playing would be nice in some events, but that would be pretty much as risky or even more risky than keeping it tight in the defensive because of the counter attacks. Besides, Juve made more goals than anyone else in the league while they conceded less than anyone. What more do you want?
@ Dominic, thanks mate. New season and much of new stuff going around, let's see how long I'll hang on... But it might be a time for you to learn to spell my name correctly.
But I still think you people are exaggerating this problem. Yes, Paddy and Puma don't have as good vision as some of the players around, but what they do is offer much more defensive stability and freedom to other player. I see that Juve could have got Pizzarro for example instead of Vieira, but triade rather opted for the French man. One may ask why? The answer is simple, because this is Juve that we are talking about. You guys are asking more spectacular way of playing, but how on earth do you think that's going to happen when Capello is the coach of JUVE? Buying Pizzarro instead of Vieira might have been luxury that would have costed in the long run. Yes, that would have offered more options while attacking in some points, but that also had tied Zambrotta and Émerson to defensive area much more just like last season. Basicly I just see it as changing options to other, not necessarily creating new ones.
Buying Pizzarro would also have made Juve dependent on him, since no one in the squad offers the same kind of improvisation and flashy skills as he. I reckon that would have taken Juve back to Zidane's era, while Juve were much too dependent of ZZ. Yes, it was more of a "cool" way of playing, but surely it wasn't as effective as Juve's current tactics.
I don't see this problem with creativity that as large as some of you. And some of you people still claim that it might cost as in the CL. I see it rather on the contrary, Champions League is pretty much about defensive plays. One says that lack of attacking options costed Juve against 'Pool last year, and his probably right. But what makes one think that it'd cost us again?! May I remind you that replacing Blasi with Vieira offers more of defensive stability, but more attacking options too. People say that Juve can't do a thing when they're one down, but the thing is that I can't see Juve letting themselves one down.
I don't think that loading more to attacking options would help, since triade and Capello were smart, they loaded more on both sections, attacking and defensive. I know that flashy style of playing would be nice in some events, but that would be pretty much as risky or even more risky than keeping it tight in the defensive because of the counter attacks. Besides, Juve made more goals than anyone else in the league while they conceded less than anyone. What more do you want?
@ Dominic, thanks mate. New season and much of new stuff going around, let's see how long I'll hang on... But it might be a time for you to learn to spell my name correctly.
I'm very affraid that Milan is much stronger this year. We have no back-up for Zebina (but my opinion is that they must replace him) and if Thuram or Cannavaro get injured, the only replacement is Kovac who isn't a very good player. The only positive thing this season is the attack. We have the same as last year with hopefully a newborn Trezeguet and a fresh Mutu. Mutu can also replace Nedved so this is also a important player. Blasi and Giannichedda as backup for Vieira and Emerson. It's good but I prefer Zanetti. I'm very dissapointed in the transfermarket this year because AGAIN, Juve think that they can win with a small selection. Let's see what is going to happen.
Forza Juve
Forza Juve
++ [ originally posted by Erkka ] ++
@ Dominic, thanks mate. New season and much of new stuff going around, let's see how long I'll hang on... But it might be a time for you to learn to spell my name correctly.
@ Dominic, thanks mate. New season and much of new stuff going around, let's see how long I'll hang on... But it might be a time for you to learn to spell my name correctly.
Just a stupid mistake. Won't happen again Erkka
.We are not neccesarly asking Juve to play in a more attacking fashion because we know that is not going to happen with Capello. However, I see nothing wrong with adding a player like Pizarro, even to keep on the bench, to come in and give us more creativity and attacking prowess. Sure, Vieira is a great player and I understand fully why we obtained him, however in my opinion Pizarro would have done more for this side. Furthermore, I really don't see anything wrong with an Emerson-Pizarro pairing in midfield because David can play decent defense as well.
Not sure I agree with this....Zidane was so good and played a position that made him available for everything, thus making every single play go through him. On the contrary with a Pizarro playing within a system, there would not be as much pressure on his shoulders as seen with Zidane.
As I stated earlier, when we face difficult defenses in the knockout stages of the competition we might struggle to create anything against them, as seen with Liverpool. And if teams follow that same gameplan this season, we will be in trouble a few times, definitely. The way to fix that problem is the whole point of this thread.
And for your last statement, I don't think Moggi added players on both the attacking and defensive fronts.....we did not sign another winger, we did not sign an attacking midfielder, and the only real attacking option we signed was Mutu last season. All we did was sign defensive midfielders and defenders, so I think Moggi failed us here. I highlighted this bench problem last year.
Not sure I agree with this....Zidane was so good and played a position that made him available for everything, thus making every single play go through him. On the contrary with a Pizarro playing within a system, there would not be as much pressure on his shoulders as seen with Zidane.
As I stated earlier, when we face difficult defenses in the knockout stages of the competition we might struggle to create anything against them, as seen with Liverpool. And if teams follow that same gameplan this season, we will be in trouble a few times, definitely. The way to fix that problem is the whole point of this thread.
And for your last statement, I don't think Moggi added players on both the attacking and defensive fronts.....we did not sign another winger, we did not sign an attacking midfielder, and the only real attacking option we signed was Mutu last season. All we did was sign defensive midfielders and defenders, so I think Moggi failed us here. I highlighted this bench problem last year.
