i dont think it will hurt us look at last year we won and this year we are much stronger so we should expect more!
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Will Lack of Creativity Hurt Us This Season? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bjerknes
- Start date
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Im watching the same Juve you are...and no, I don't think we are effective enough on the flanks. I understand that we almost always attack from the flanks, but it is through overlapping wingbacks, not really exploiting the flanks with pace in our counterattacks.
Zambrotta never stays upfront, everytime we lose the ball he always comes back to protect our defense. I'm talking about Zambrotta actually playing the left wing, without having to drop back. Let him stay there so we can make quick counters on the wings. I know eventually we usually always use the flank, but its zambo over lapping, not breaking or making runs for our counter attacks.
Zambrotta is the only player IMO who makes good off the ball runs.
OFf the ball movement is what is also lacking at JUve,
Trez doesn't make good enough runs, Zlatan rarely makes runs because he's good with the ball. Camo rarely makes runs and only takes it down the flanks when he dribbles. Other than that he tends to go towards the inside of the field more than going on the side touchlines.
I think with the midfielders we have, we can still make good attacking plays, especially during our counter attacks. Now we play counter attacks to our forwards who spread out wide, WHILE I think it'd be better if we have an attacking winger who can can go wide with pace dring counter attacks and open up space for Trez and Zlatan.
And since, we don't have a craetive midfielder, IMO the best way to solve this at the momment is to field Zambo as attacking winger.
Zambrotta never stays upfront, everytime we lose the ball he always comes back to protect our defense. I'm talking about Zambrotta actually playing the left wing, without having to drop back. Let him stay there so we can make quick counters on the wings. I know eventually we usually always use the flank, but its zambo over lapping, not breaking or making runs for our counter attacks.
Zambrotta is the only player IMO who makes good off the ball runs.
OFf the ball movement is what is also lacking at JUve,
Trez doesn't make good enough runs, Zlatan rarely makes runs because he's good with the ball. Camo rarely makes runs and only takes it down the flanks when he dribbles. Other than that he tends to go towards the inside of the field more than going on the side touchlines.
I think with the midfielders we have, we can still make good attacking plays, especially during our counter attacks. Now we play counter attacks to our forwards who spread out wide, WHILE I think it'd be better if we have an attacking winger who can can go wide with pace dring counter attacks and open up space for Trez and Zlatan.
And since, we don't have a craetive midfielder, IMO the best way to solve this at the momment is to field Zambo as attacking winger.
I would seriously consider playing this:
--------------Zlatan ---- Trez/Mutu
Zambrotta --- Vieira --- Emerson --- Camoranese
Chiellini/Balzaretti -- Cannavaro --- Thuram --- Zebina
--------------------Abbiati
I seriously think we need someone who can make off the ball runs. Zambo can and Mutu too.
With the current situation, it would be a waste anyways to sub vieira or emerson, besides they are really a very strong midfield duo who destroys any opponent's midifield.
In Italy's game against Scotland, I saw many dangerous opportunities were from Zambo making runs or dribbling. Eventhough Italy had Totti and Pirlo in the middle, they didn't create to many build up attacks from the center, only on counterattacks did Totti and Pirlo look dangerous at times, making some dribbles and one-two good passes to Vieri and Iquinta. But again, I saw lack of good runs by Italy's forward as one of the reasons Pirlo and Totti could not pick oout many good passes.
--------------Zlatan ---- Trez/Mutu
Zambrotta --- Vieira --- Emerson --- Camoranese
Chiellini/Balzaretti -- Cannavaro --- Thuram --- Zebina
--------------------Abbiati
I seriously think we need someone who can make off the ball runs. Zambo can and Mutu too.
With the current situation, it would be a waste anyways to sub vieira or emerson, besides they are really a very strong midfield duo who destroys any opponent's midifield.
In Italy's game against Scotland, I saw many dangerous opportunities were from Zambo making runs or dribbling. Eventhough Italy had Totti and Pirlo in the middle, they didn't create to many build up attacks from the center, only on counterattacks did Totti and Pirlo look dangerous at times, making some dribbles and one-two good passes to Vieri and Iquinta. But again, I saw lack of good runs by Italy's forward as one of the reasons Pirlo and Totti could not pick oout many good passes.
Okay. If you're going to get nitpicky over the verbiage, Dominic...
Point 1....states the obvious.
Point 2....Stating my opinion that those two respective players do not have the passing range and ability to play in midfield and do not have the type of distribution creativity I'm looking for. Valid point.
Point 3...This discussion is mostly about the sort of creativity found in the midfield.
Point 4...We have seen Del Piero numerous times in midfield, and he does not perform very well. Have I stated that before in this little selection? No.
Shouldn't have to explain this to you twice, Dominic.
Unless you have some fruitful evidence discrediting these points, please don't waste my time making me explain myself. These are all similar yet different points in their own way. Please elaborate if you do not concur with them.
Point 1....states the obvious.
Point 2....Stating my opinion that those two respective players do not have the passing range and ability to play in midfield and do not have the type of distribution creativity I'm looking for. Valid point.
Point 3...This discussion is mostly about the sort of creativity found in the midfield.
Point 4...We have seen Del Piero numerous times in midfield, and he does not perform very well. Have I stated that before in this little selection? No.
Shouldn't have to explain this to you twice, Dominic.
Unless you have some fruitful evidence discrediting these points, please don't waste my time making me explain myself. These are all similar yet different points in their own way. Please elaborate if you do not concur with them.
Despite many opposing voices, I think Pizarro has decent enough defensive skills to play midfield for Juventus. Of course he is not as good as Vieira defensively, however what we gain with David is his ability to keep the ball and distribute it almost anywhere on the pitch. With Pizarro in midfield we will not lose posession that much, and we will certainly have more ideas with the ball as we bring it forward and challenge the opposition defense.
Pizarro would solve our creativity problems, and this fact singlehandedly makes his presence in the team very beneficial to our cause. And in my opinion he has decent defensive skills in midfield, so he should be a competent partner for Emerson in midfied.
Pizarro would solve our creativity problems, and this fact singlehandedly makes his presence in the team very beneficial to our cause. And in my opinion he has decent defensive skills in midfield, so he should be a competent partner for Emerson in midfied.
welll for many seasons now we have won the championship with not really a creative player in the starting eleven(am talking after zizo left)
having pizzaro in the side will cause us the play with one forward exactly like milan. For me i think that playing with pizzaro in the straight 4-4-2 will be too risky for my liking.
if pizzaro would be playing in neddy's position then i think the system would be more balanced.But dont know if he would adapt to a wing position and also i think that it would restrict his abilities
having pizzaro in the side will cause us the play with one forward exactly like milan. For me i think that playing with pizzaro in the straight 4-4-2 will be too risky for my liking.
if pizzaro would be playing in neddy's position then i think the system would be more balanced.But dont know if he would adapt to a wing position and also i think that it would restrict his abilities
OK, I see your point but I still disagree. I definitely don't believe that Pizzarro has good enough defensive abilities, so I prefer Vieira instead of him, and so did Capello & the triade.
Same as above, I see your point but don't agree. I don't think that current Juve and playmaker(s) would mix that nicely.
You see this problem as much bigger than I do. I believe that Juve can easily pass the problem, if it even occurs, by simply changing to 4-3-3.
Once again I fail to agree with you, but I can catch your point. (It's getting annoying, isn't it?
) I strongly believe that Juve has enough attacking options already, even for the long and hard season in every front. May I remind you that Trezeguet is back (adds more options), Vieira will play instead of Blasi (adds more options), Chiellini can cover Zambrotta (adds more options), and most importantly Mutu can finally play (adds more options) etc. etc.
Summa summarum, I don't think that this seasons Juve can even be compared to last seasons Juve when it comes to attacking options, because the squad depth is finally optimal. This seasons team is far superior compared to the one that ended the season as champions of Italy. As far as I can see, we can be very optimistic about Juve's chances for success this season.
In the end I'd like to thank you for this tiny but inspiring "debate". I really felt that it's nice to be back in here because of these little chats so I simply started posting again. I'm waiting eagerly for next one, but for now I can't see that much to be debated on in here.
Same as above, I see your point but don't agree. I don't think that current Juve and playmaker(s) would mix that nicely.
You see this problem as much bigger than I do. I believe that Juve can easily pass the problem, if it even occurs, by simply changing to 4-3-3.
Once again I fail to agree with you, but I can catch your point. (It's getting annoying, isn't it?
) I strongly believe that Juve has enough attacking options already, even for the long and hard season in every front. May I remind you that Trezeguet is back (adds more options), Vieira will play instead of Blasi (adds more options), Chiellini can cover Zambrotta (adds more options), and most importantly Mutu can finally play (adds more options) etc. etc.Summa summarum, I don't think that this seasons Juve can even be compared to last seasons Juve when it comes to attacking options, because the squad depth is finally optimal. This seasons team is far superior compared to the one that ended the season as champions of Italy. As far as I can see, we can be very optimistic about Juve's chances for success this season.
In the end I'd like to thank you for this tiny but inspiring "debate". I really felt that it's nice to be back in here because of these little chats so I simply started posting again. I'm waiting eagerly for next one, but for now I can't see that much to be debated on in here.
Fair enough, I just have my own priorities and views on football. IMO Pizarro is good enough to play midfield for Juventus, and with Emerson as his partner we are hardly weak defensively.
And who cares what the Triade thinks?
We witnessed this problem occur last season against Liverpool and any other side we could not break down. I don't think the question is IF...I think it's when, and it will probably cost us we need it the most. The 4-3-3 could solve the creativity problem to some extent, yes.
Yes, this season's team is superior to last term's, however if you look at our bench nothing has really changed Errka. We will still have Del Piero sitting alongside Olivera, Giannichedda, and Blasi on the bench....please don't tell me this is far superior to last year's Del Piero, Appiah, Tacchinardi and so on because it's not. With Vieira and Mutu in the squad our first team is much much stronger, however our bench has not really improved, especially without a competent attacking midfielder.
We lost Kapo and Appiah, the former being IMO a better player than Olivera and the latter a better player going forward and a better player overall than Blasi. And if Nedved continues on with his current form, we don't have a replacement for him besides Mutu.
Sounds a bit condescending Errka however all of this is up for debate and of course are all mere opinions. You may not think creativity is a problem for our side however I do and know other people do as well....we shall see how things play out during the season.
And who cares what the Triade thinks?
We witnessed this problem occur last season against Liverpool and any other side we could not break down. I don't think the question is IF...I think it's when, and it will probably cost us we need it the most. The 4-3-3 could solve the creativity problem to some extent, yes.
Once again I fail to agree with you, but I can catch your point. (It's getting annoying, isn't it? ) I strongly believe that Juve has enough attacking options already, even for the long and hard season in every front. May I remind you that Trezeguet is back (adds more options), Vieira will play instead of Blasi (adds more options), Chiellini can cover Zambrotta (adds more options), and most importantly Mutu can finally play (adds more options) etc. etc.
Summa summarum, I don't think that this seasons Juve can even be compared to last seasons Juve when it comes to attacking options, because the squad depth is finally optimal. This seasons team is far superior compared to the one that ended the season as champions of Italy. As far as I can see, we can be very optimistic about Juve's chances for success this season.
) I strongly believe that Juve has enough attacking options already, even for the long and hard season in every front. May I remind you that Trezeguet is back (adds more options), Vieira will play instead of Blasi (adds more options), Chiellini can cover Zambrotta (adds more options), and most importantly Mutu can finally play (adds more options) etc. etc.Summa summarum, I don't think that this seasons Juve can even be compared to last seasons Juve when it comes to attacking options, because the squad depth is finally optimal. This seasons team is far superior compared to the one that ended the season as champions of Italy. As far as I can see, we can be very optimistic about Juve's chances for success this season.
We lost Kapo and Appiah, the former being IMO a better player than Olivera and the latter a better player going forward and a better player overall than Blasi. And if Nedved continues on with his current form, we don't have a replacement for him besides Mutu.
In the end I'd like to thank you for this tiny but inspiring "debate". I really felt that it's nice to be back in here because of these little chats so I simply started posting again. I'm waiting eagerly for next one, but for now I can't see that much to be debated on in here.
however all of this is up for debate and of course are all mere opinions. You may not think creativity is a problem for our side however I do and know other people do as well....we shall see how things play out during the season.
I'm not saying that Pizzarro isn't good enough to play for Juventus, but I'm saying that Vieira fits Juve better.
You answered this one yourself, forget the rest of it.
Nothing has changed when were talking about replacements? Are you serious? I honestly believe that this years bench is superior (maybe not far superior though) compared to the one we saw last year. The most important improvement obviously happened on the backline, where Juve decided to leak the holes with the signings of Kovac, Giannichedda, not to forget Gladstone. Also the power of fullbacks grew stronger along with the signings of Chiellini and Balzaretti.
In the midfield one can't deny the positive effect of Vieira's signing, while guys like Giannichedda are underrated IMO. You also shouldn't forget about the contribution of Mutu...
As for second piece, what makes you think that Kapo is better than Olivera? Yes, I agree that Appiah is better going forward than Blasi, but I can't agree that he's better overall.
About Nedved, I don't think that Juve needs direct replacement for him, I believe it's only matter of roles on the pitch. You already mentioned Mutu, I'll carry one with mentioning Zambrotta or changing formation as solutions. Last year Capello did what Lippi couldn't do during his era, he made the team that wasn't dependant of Nedved, I can't see what would be the problem with it this year with better material...
What makes the decisive difference compared to last year, and one thing that you seem to forget is that this years squad possess much much more versatility than the one last year. Capello's options aren't even nearly as limited as seen last year, because of adjustable modes of many players. Zambrotta, Giannichedda, Mutu, Olivera etc. can play nearly anywhere without their performances suffering of their position. Nearly every member of the squad can play in more than one place, and I believe that's an invaluable asset for the coach.
The major improvement for this season is that anyone from the starting eleven are irreplaceable as few players were last year (or at least I believe so.) Now even Buffon can be decently replaced, as Abbiati is more than capable backup. Camoranesi's (or Nedved's) absence can be taken care of by simply moving Zambrotta to midfield and replacing him with Chiellini, not to mention the possible shift to 4-3-3. Émerson and Vieira are both great, but they can be replaced (most preferably just one of them in time) by Giannichedda or nowadays very underrated, young Blasi. Cannavaro is harder to replace than Thuram, but it's not impossible (as it seemed last year) because the quality of showed by Kovac and Giannichedda is considerably better than Montero or Ferrara could offer last year. And the attack line, well no need to even mention it because 5 quality forwards are more than I could have asked for.
Yes, only time will tell but I believe we're all happy until I'm proven wrong.
Condescending? HELL NO!! I'm just saying that you're one of the few that I respect around here, and the one to thank or blame for of me starting posting again. That doesn't exclude that fact that I'm still better than you.
And FFS, are you kidding or is my name really that hard? It certainly seems so.
You answered this one yourself, forget the rest of it.
Nothing has changed when were talking about replacements? Are you serious? I honestly believe that this years bench is superior (maybe not far superior though) compared to the one we saw last year. The most important improvement obviously happened on the backline, where Juve decided to leak the holes with the signings of Kovac, Giannichedda, not to forget Gladstone. Also the power of fullbacks grew stronger along with the signings of Chiellini and Balzaretti.In the midfield one can't deny the positive effect of Vieira's signing, while guys like Giannichedda are underrated IMO. You also shouldn't forget about the contribution of Mutu...
As for second piece, what makes you think that Kapo is better than Olivera? Yes, I agree that Appiah is better going forward than Blasi, but I can't agree that he's better overall.
About Nedved, I don't think that Juve needs direct replacement for him, I believe it's only matter of roles on the pitch. You already mentioned Mutu, I'll carry one with mentioning Zambrotta or changing formation as solutions. Last year Capello did what Lippi couldn't do during his era, he made the team that wasn't dependant of Nedved, I can't see what would be the problem with it this year with better material...
What makes the decisive difference compared to last year, and one thing that you seem to forget is that this years squad possess much much more versatility than the one last year. Capello's options aren't even nearly as limited as seen last year, because of adjustable modes of many players. Zambrotta, Giannichedda, Mutu, Olivera etc. can play nearly anywhere without their performances suffering of their position. Nearly every member of the squad can play in more than one place, and I believe that's an invaluable asset for the coach.
The major improvement for this season is that anyone from the starting eleven are irreplaceable as few players were last year (or at least I believe so.
) Now even Buffon can be decently replaced, as Abbiati is more than capable backup. Camoranesi's (or Nedved's) absence can be taken care of by simply moving Zambrotta to midfield and replacing him with Chiellini, not to mention the possible shift to 4-3-3. Émerson and Vieira are both great, but they can be replaced (most preferably just one of them in time) by Giannichedda or nowadays very underrated, young Blasi. Cannavaro is harder to replace than Thuram, but it's not impossible (as it seemed last year) because the quality of showed by Kovac and Giannichedda is considerably better than Montero or Ferrara could offer last year. And the attack line, well no need to even mention it because 5 quality forwards are more than I could have asked for.Yes, only time will tell but I believe we're all happy until I'm proven wrong.
++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Sounds a bit condescending Errka
Sounds a bit condescending Errka
And FFS, are you kidding or is my name really that hard?
It certainly seems so.Oh boy, that's so debatable.
Personally I would say Pizarro is a better fit, simply because we already have a great holding midfielder in Emerson and that David would give us that extra creativity in midfield. When you look at our squad the last thing we need is more defensive midfielders, and we lack a central midfielder who specializes in going forward.
Thus, Emerson would hold back much more and Pizarro would be able to venture forward a bit more. With the Vieira and Emerson combo we have two almost identical players who share the duties. Again, this is just personal preference here and I still fail to see how Pizarro would be depended on too much...that doesn't make sense.
Nothing has changed when were talking about replacements? Are you serious? I honestly believe that this years bench is superior (maybe not far superior though) compared to the one we saw last year. The most important improvement obviously happened on the backline, where Juve decided to leak the holes with the signings of Kovac, Giannichedda, not to forget Gladstone. Also the power of fullbacks grew stronger along with the signings of Chiellini and Balzaretti.
Again, our bench is indeed strengthened by Kovac and perhaps Chiellini, however from there up I do not see much difference from last year, especially in midfield. It's the same story in midfield with Olivera not being a proper replacement for Camoranesi or Nedved and we have a one-dimensional ball winner in Giannichedda taking over for Appiah and Blasi still remains...not sure how this is better than last year cuz quite frankly it's not.
I am indeed taking Mutu into consideration....to the point where he is playing on the pitch.
There is indeed more versatility than last year, all except for one location... the midfield. And how versatility will solve our creativity problem in midfield, I don't know.
As for the trident attack solving this problem...I stated it only solves it a bit because we just have more presence and more personel in the attacking third, thus giving us more options when we progress forward. However I still foresee a problem with getting the ball to those forwards in difficult positions due to our lack of creativity. Having several players up top will increase our presence indeed, however giving them the ball is something we must think about too...the whole purpose of this thread.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with our squad, however I'm just posing questions that we might have to deal with later on in the season. There is no doubt in my mind that our lack of creativity in midfield will cost us a game or two...the question will be when.
And to be honest, I'm just tired of playing half-ass football and winning in the most scrappiest of ways....as you recall last year we won a lot of matches we perhaps shouldn't have, and you cannot be entirely satisfied with winning unless you know you deserve it. I hope with our new recruits this season we will own the opposition much more than we did last year...unforunately, though, against Chievo, we didn't get off to a very good start.
Oh, well, I just like the name Errka better. Sorry.
Personally I would say Pizarro is a better fit, simply because we already have a great holding midfielder in Emerson and that David would give us that extra creativity in midfield. When you look at our squad the last thing we need is more defensive midfielders, and we lack a central midfielder who specializes in going forward.
Thus, Emerson would hold back much more and Pizarro would be able to venture forward a bit more. With the Vieira and Emerson combo we have two almost identical players who share the duties. Again, this is just personal preference here and I still fail to see how Pizarro would be depended on too much...that doesn't make sense.
Nothing has changed when were talking about replacements? Are you serious? I honestly believe that this years bench is superior (maybe not far superior though) compared to the one we saw last year. The most important improvement obviously happened on the backline, where Juve decided to leak the holes with the signings of Kovac, Giannichedda, not to forget Gladstone. Also the power of fullbacks grew stronger along with the signings of Chiellini and Balzaretti.
I am indeed taking Mutu into consideration....to the point where he is playing on the pitch.
There is indeed more versatility than last year, all except for one location... the midfield. And how versatility will solve our creativity problem in midfield, I don't know.
As for the trident attack solving this problem...I stated it only solves it a bit because we just have more presence and more personel in the attacking third, thus giving us more options when we progress forward. However I still foresee a problem with getting the ball to those forwards in difficult positions due to our lack of creativity. Having several players up top will increase our presence indeed, however giving them the ball is something we must think about too...the whole purpose of this thread.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with our squad, however I'm just posing questions that we might have to deal with later on in the season. There is no doubt in my mind that our lack of creativity in midfield will cost us a game or two...the question will be when.
And to be honest, I'm just tired of playing half-ass football and winning in the most scrappiest of ways....as you recall last year we won a lot of matches we perhaps shouldn't have, and you cannot be entirely satisfied with winning unless you know you deserve it. I hope with our new recruits this season we will own the opposition much more than we did last year...unforunately, though, against Chievo, we didn't get off to a very good start.
And FFS, are you kidding or is my name really that hard? It certainly seems so.
It certainly seems so.