US Presidential Elections thread - the fate of the world to be decided (179 Viewers)

[Snoop]

How do you think children get their religious influence? Who decides what school they go to? The parents, obviously. Parents with a religious inclination are no better fit to put limits than anyone else, that's the big problem.

Not just the school, parents can and are the ones should educate and teach their children too. If they learn to love themselves first and humans next, then I don't think any book can let them do harm others out of their will, that's a start at least.

We are discussing this now, but you know what Martin? We have uglier things than this religion extremism. We have racism and specially nationalism! That's the mother of hate and terror. Far worse by religion division, and the sad fact is, it is not controlled by any holly book or anything alike. I see it bigger problem!

 

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[Snoop]

Speaking of rape (okay that came out too cheery), I read the other day that widespread access to inet porn coincides with lowered rates of rape. They did a study that found that cities/states with very wide internet access had had less rapes in the last years and vice versa. How do you like that.

http://www.slate.com/id/2152487/

the key word is "Freedom".

 

[Martin]

Not just the school, parents can and are the ones should educate and teach their children too. If they learn to love themselves first and humans next, then I don't think any book can let them do harm others out of their will, that's a start at least.

We are discussing this now, but you know what Martin? We have uglier things than this religion extremism. We have racism and specially nationalism! That's the mother of hate and terror. Far worse by religion division, and the sad fact is, it is not controlled by any holly book or anything alike. I see it bigger problem!

Does something thing strike you here? For all the love and togethership, this is what religion ultimately comes down to: division. These guys are part of our group, those guys aren't. When I stop to think about that, it really bothers me.

 

[Snoop]

Sure it does bother me aswell.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

People bother me because I hate them.

 

[Seven]

Looking back at couple of pages, the discussion has nothing to do with evolution, not to mention the insults.

It has got a lot to do with evolution. I'm sorry that you do not have the ability to see how many things influence each other.

 

[Seven]

This discussion will really go very far if we continue. I don't take neither of creationism nor evolution as fact. Because they still can't explain me the start of everything, the time etc.. One of them says it is impossible to understand it since we have limited logic (that's by god), the other says it all started from an energy? or whatever it is, but still none of them can convince me and feel 100% sure, so I only choose to ignore both of them and move on. Believe whatever you want, that's fine by me, and let others believe the way they want. (@seven: this was my original point Hector!).

Evolution IS fact. Like it or not. You don't have to think about it anymore, snoop. If you do want to think about it, you need to study science and do some research. At the moment the theory of evolution stands about as strong as Newton's law of gravitation. If you say it's okay not to believe in evolution, but take the Genesis as scientific fact (which is what the post you originally replied to stated many Americans do), you must be out of your mind.

The start of everything is quite different. Whereas the Big Bang as a concept is widely recognised as correct, it obviously doesn't answer all questions. Because what then would have triggered the Big Bang?

AFAIK Christianity doesn't really teach you to differ people from each others (maybe you are mixing it with Islam, cause there are quotes like that I think), but yeah it gives quotes like "going to hell, burning in hell" which are unpleasant and scares people, to take control. But only uneducated people or those with weak personality get affected. But sure I agree with you it can be used very easily as a tool to direct or force people to act with out of their will. I don't mind having religious books, I won't even mind religious education, but I mind it when it is done with force and misused. I myself don't see bible as religious book anymore, but I can't deny that it did bring a lot of good out of me!
!

Don't get me started on this one. Are you christian? Because you sound like you know nothing about it. Most christian subdivisions are known to be highly judgmental. Despite all your bullshit about this subject, it all boils down to this one line for someone who believes:

I am good because I believe, you are bad because you don't.

What can I say, I have been through it, and now I am to this point that I can take anything. But sadly, I have to agree with you that it has been misused very badly and washed millions of heads out there. But it's up to parents Martin to put limits. The thing is it is being used mostly by religious people, they are making lots of money, and specially pope, I mean look at the way he is living for doing nothing!

Yeah, if only the parents would have told their kiddos it wasn't such a good idea to go on a fucking crusade in 1092. As for the pope: what do you want? The world's biggest religious leader living in a cave? That's nonsense.

 

[Bjerknes]

I think the problem with this election for Obama will be the fact that the "old-timers" will not vote for him because old folks don't like "change." This can even be seen within my own family. My mom, a Liberal from Detroit, doesn't like Obama for one reason or another, and always states that she doesn't know what Obama stands for and says that Hillary has a "proven" track record. I think she just loves the fact that Hillary is indeed a woman, but I could be wrong.

My mother also stated that she hates how Obama went on the Oprah show and supposedly "let her take over for him," something I don't really get. I didn't watch the Oprah show she's speaking of, but Oprah is just a mere supporter and donator. My retort in the defense of Obama against my mom was, "why exactly do you think Hilary is in the position she's at?" The obvious answer is Bill Clinton, her husband. If it wasn't for 8 stable, econically sound years under the Presidency of Mr. Clinton, Hillary wouldn't even be in the running. That is not an opinion; it's fact. And of course my mom, stubborn as she always is, couldn't provide a retort except for I don't like Obama.

Obama basically came out of nowhere yet Hillary is living on her husband. While I do like her and don't have much against her, I'm all for change and taking a chance on a good, youthful intellectual who is the only option to restore international respect.

In reality, all these debates mean nothing as nobody knows whether or not any candidate will actually do what they say they will do become elected. That's why I am now a firm believer of basing my vote on character and general values/ideas before specific notions, such as specifying a date to finally "pull out of Iraq." All that is pure nonsense.

Obama is a family man with two eyes open to the good of not only our nation, but also for the good of the rest of the world. I think it's time to take a chance on a man with the charisma and fruitful politics of the assassinated Bobby Kennedy. Obama is the only choice in November.

 

[swag]

For as much as people give lip service to the notion that things suck and they want them to change, deep down they're scared as sh*t and suddenly think, "Well, my life could be a lot worse" when they get to the polls.

Revolution sounds great when you've got nothing to lose. If DO you have something to lose, it sounds great in theory -- in a "let's have a big party, maybe I'll score with some hot chicks" kind of way. But then those folks realize that the world is really filled with a lot of ugly, fat chicks -- and they were better off with their modest-looking, 10-pound overweight girlfriend and their stacks of "Snatch Illustrated".

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

about the abortion thing... yeah, it's unfortunate when a woman gets raped and becomes pregnant, or if the child is sick or abnormal. but what about the child itself, nobody gives it a choice (obviously it can't decide). but it deserves a chance to live, and should not be murdered for the parents' convenience or happiness. besides that being selfish, it's plain murder, whether the child is born or not.

i would understand a little, in those cases, though, the rape and sickness. but, if it's out of inconvenience, wtf? plus, if it's so pro-choice, how come drugs (cocaine, heroine) aren't legal? i mean, shouldn't i be able to choose if i destroy my mental, physical and phsycological/emotional state (which is also what happens with abortion)?

 

[rounder]

AFAIK Christianity doesn't really teach you to differ people from each others (maybe you are mixing it with Islam, cause there are quotes like that I think), but yeah it gives quotes like "going to hell, burning in hell" which are unpleasant and scares people, to take control. But only uneducated people or those with weak personality get affected. But sure I agree with you it can be used very easily as a tool to direct or force people to act with out of their will. I don't mind having religious books, I won't even mind religious education, but I mind it when it is done with force and misused. I myself don't see bible as religious book anymore, but I can't deny that it did bring a lot of good out of me!

Many people think that it's religion that is the cause of so many deaths and wars etc.. I think it's really humanity that has been the cause of so much violence . Humans naturally want something to follow , a guide . They need people or something to tell them what to do . Relgious books offer just that . It tells them what is right and what is wrong , and humans feel like they have direction , however , it's man's interpretation of religious books that have created so much hate in the world . The bible never says that christians should hate anyone , on the contrary , it says christians should actually love their counterparts . Yet you see so much hate some christians have for non-christian people .

Even before christianity humans would join tribes and fight each other for survival . Its not very different now , All religious groups fight each other because they think it's the only way of survival . It's the way we are and it's he way we are always going to be .

 

[ReBeL]

I believe every stupid, moronic, inane muslim out there should be killed.

Still think the same?

But this is what my God, Abd-al Rahman I call him, tells me to believe. Arabs and Jews are filthy creatures who need to be wiped clean from the earth. I'm sorry, but that's my religion and I'm entitled to believe anything I want.

Right?

Seriously though, by now you should know I don't have anything against any kind of religion as long as it doesn't become too radical. One of the reasons I'm not very fond of Islam is that it is a religion that is quite tricky. The Qu'uran, opposed to the Bible, cannot be altered and is the only true source. That means it can easily be misinterpreted. Besides that there is also no religious hierarchy, which means that basically anyone can say he's an imam.

All of this doesn't mean I think you shouldn't be a muslim of course.

Seven, I just wanted to save you much time and tell you that you can't provoke Snoop by insulting Arabs and Muslims, because simply he is not Muslim nor Arab...

Back to your great posts...

For those who look happy that Bush Jr. will be leaving the white house should refresh their memory a bit. It wont really make a difference in the States/world whether Obama or Clinton will come.

Thats how United States policy goes, world's strongest country.... It's more like a book but the only diff is how the teacher will apply It. So I don't really see a diff out there.

I said this before afew pages. It doesn't matter who wins, we're screwed whoever wins...

And for the Evolution fans, Pardon me but how was it confirmed again?? If you want to open another thread, please do so...

 

[Bjerknes]

I said this before afew pages. It doesn't matter who wins, we're screwed whoever wins...

Who is "we," Rebel?

And do you know anything about the candidates, especially Obama? What you're doing is saying every single American is alike, no matter what, which is something I take offense to because I certainly don't support Israel.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

I think he means every non-American.

 

[Bjerknes]

I think he means every non-American.

Nah, I think he means just Palestinians. A proof by contradiction - another Bush would help is enemy, those Jews. Therefore, they wouldn't be screwed.

 

[ReBeL]

Who is "we," Rebel?

The majority of world population.

And do you know anything about the candidates, especially Obama? What you're doing is saying every single American is alike, no matter what, which is something I take offense to because I certainly don't support Israel.

I didn't say that Americans are all alike, and I know that there are some great voices over there inside USA that tries to change the blind foreign policy, but my point was that the American foreign policy was always going the same route and was not affected ever by the president's personal preferences and opinions. It's like a methodology that has to be adopted by everybody regardless the backgrounds of presidents. I agree that Carter was alittle different, but he was not strong enough to impose his ideas in the foreign policy.

I know people inside USA may have some preferences between the candidates because the internal work will vary from one candidate to another, but for people outside USA, I don't think it much matters.

I hope it's clear now, and you know I never tried to offense anybody of American members here, especially that the majority of Americans I know and those who are here in the forum have very reasonable viewpoints regarding the foreign policy...

 

[GordoDeCentral]

For as much as people give lip service to the notion that things suck and they want them to change, deep down they're scared as sh*t and suddenly think, "Well, my life could be a lot worse" when they get to the polls.

Revolution sounds great when you've got nothing to lose. If DO you have something to lose, it sounds great in theory -- in a "let's have a big party, maybe I'll score with some hot chicks" kind of way. But then those folks realize that the world is really filled with a lot of ugly, fat chicks -- and they were better off with their modest-looking, 10-pound overweight girlfriend and their stacks of "Snatch Illustrated".

or that change takes times, effort and sacrifice; and in a society so gong ho about instant gratification waiting for and TRUSTING someone's plans to come to fruition is out of the question.


Ever seen the documentary "our brand is crisis"?

 

[ReBeL]

I think he means every non-American.

Nah, I think he means just Palestinians. A proof by contradiction - another Bush would help is enemy, those Jews. Therefore, they wouldn't be screwed.

As I said above, I do believe that Americans are also affected negatively by the foreign policy of USA. So, "We" included Americans too...

 

[The Pado]

Evolution is fact. The rest of you non-believers are monkeys, shitting in your hands and tossing it at Obama bin Labia.



But, I'm for Obama as soon as Richardson bails.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

As I said above, I do believe that Americans are also affected negatively by the foreign policy of USA. So, "We" included Americans too...

Word...