US Presidential Elections thread - the fate of the world to be decided (140 Viewers)

[David01]

I don't even get to vote why are you asking me?
I would vote Obama if I had the chance, you do whatever you want
I would vote for him cuz I believe that he can get the world to look differently to America
let's face it, everybody hates your asses right now
Bush hasn't won you any popularity
Obama would be looked at completely different
people would say, wow a black president things must be changing over there
I don't know about the differences between the two candidates but on one hand you have two people from the republican party who stand for everything Bush supported, McCain was different at first but needs to win those right win christians.
On the other side is Obama , relatively young and inexperiences but his running mate makes up for that. Like I said he can generate a change just like he has always said.
and about these troops, he has clearly set a deadline for the withdrawal while McCain never did

 

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[Bjerknes]

He's.... intelligent? He's.... not a complete tool?

Just how low are you setting the bar here?

It's pretty obvious we need somebody new in Washington. The same people have been running the country into the ground for the last eight years, and McCain will just be another pushover to the Republican party agenda. We do not need that agenda any longer; it's cost us too much money and too many lives.

Dru, it's important to note that experience is not all that matters in politics. Sometimes it's even harmful, because in that case the politician becomes sucked down by other politicians of the same the party, and thus become hounds for them. Moreover, the longer you're in the Washington setup, the more loyal you become to lobbyists who spend their time and money influencing the decisions that matter. In the last eight years, those lobbyists have:

1) Took us to war for oil.
2) Killed thousands of people, not only Americans.
3) Partially caused the current financial crisis due to lack of regulation in certain areas.

Now, that doesn't sound too pleasant, does it? John McCain has at least seven lobbyists as current advisers.

Tell me... does that sound acceptable to you?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

I won't go into a gut feel or sentimentality to killing off the old guard for new ideas approach here, which is what made me vote for Obama in the primaries. That was primarily driven because the guy voted against the Iraq war and smelled a rat, even when the politically popular thing to do at the time was to lynch Iraq for revenge eventhough all the intel was faulty and fabricated.

I think McCain is a much better Republican we've seen in ages. That said, the man is unfortunately wholly compromised by his party right now. From all the indicators I can tell, he's been asked to make a deal with the devil to get elected -- including shutting up when he wanted Lieberman as his VP and taking the RNC's designated Palin instead. And the RNC generally dislikes the guy -- it's clear.

So to keep the RNC's agenda of invading Iraq, knocking down regulations that could have helped prevent things like this global financial Armageddon, devaluing science and intellect in favor of allegiances and blind faith, putting issues like guns and gays and God ahead of international relations and financials and scientific advancement, they've created a puppet in Palin who is in their pocket.

Given that they can control a weak presidential candidate by influencing him to make concessions for the party line, and that they have inserted a blank slate VP candidate who would have a 30% chance of taking office in the event of McCain's untimely death and would serve as an empty vessel to do their bidding, I want those clowns and their claws out of the machinery of the federal government.

I want the American Taliban out of office, is really what it comes down to.

as always eloquent and concise, that really is it and any person who cares for this country and possesses an inkling of insight will think twice before for voting for the cabal.

 

[Martin]

It's pretty obvious we need somebody new in Washington. The same people have been running the country into the ground for the last eight years, and McCain will just be another pushover to the Republican party agenda. We do not need that agenda any longer; it's cost us too much money and too many lives.

Dru, it's important to note that experience is not all that matters in politics. Sometimes it's even harmful, because in that case the politician becomes sucked down by other politicians of the same the party, and thus become hounds for them. Moreover, the longer you're in the Washington setup, the more loyal you become to lobbyists who spend their time and money influencing the decisions that matter. In the last eight years, those lobbyists have:

1) Took us to war for oil.
2) Killed thousands of people, not only Americans.
3) Partially caused the current financial crisis due to lack of regulation in certain areas.

Now, that doesn't sound too pleasant, does it? John McCain has at least seven lobbyists as current advisers.

Tell me... does that sound acceptable to you?

Exactly, McCain is being run by lobbyists. Nothing about that is right.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

greg, how do you manage to make ownage look so easy

 

[swag]

greg, how do you manage to make ownage look so easy

Years of experience from the other end?



Btw, my wife just landed in Toronto an hour ago. Be on the lookout for international incidents in the news.

Though at 0.92 Canadian dollars to the American dollar, we can't afford too much these days.

 

[.zero]

I don't even get to vote why are you asking me?
I would vote Obama if I had the chance, you do whatever you want
I would vote for him cuz I believe that he can get the world to look differently to America
let's face it, everybody hates your asses right now
Bush hasn't won you any popularity
Obama would be looked at completely different
people would say, wow a black president things must be changing over there
I don't know about the differences between the two candidates but on one hand you have two people from the republican party who stand for everything Bush supported, McCain was different at first but needs to win those right win christians.
On the other side is Obama , relatively young and inexperiences but his running mate makes up for that. Like I said he can generate a change just like he has always said.
and about these troops, he has clearly set a deadline for the withdrawal while McCain never did

That’s the problem. This election is not for america to win a popularity contest. Take it from me when I say I don't give a fuck what the rest of the world thinks about america, its leaders, its people, its culture or whatever else non-americans trash about my country.

This election isn't about foreigners, other countries or making the rest of the world like us. Its about the american people (ideally). We are the ones who vote in our best interest for our cities, towns, states. What this president can do for me is all I care about. Not for the EU and U.N.

If your only concern is about the worlds opinion about the U.S. and iraq and american soldiers then please refrain from posting in this thread.
--

@ greg>> Yes, McCain is a pawn but so is Obama. So that means we are back to square one where neither candidate is substantially better than the other. Once again kids >> the lesser of 2 evils.

Honestly all you Obama lovers just need to drop the bullshit smart guy approach. Thus far Greggo is the only one who gave me a decent response and that still brought me back to my original point. If you support Obama then go ahead with it but don't act like you actually know what all of you are talking about.

And for those of you are are american citizens (andy, greg, aaron, altair), keep in mind that this election is for us, not for the rest of the world. Its about who can help make it easier to pay for our childrens college tuition in the future along with your own currently. Its about who can give you the best tax breaks for you bracket when you start earning from your career (that’s where I'm at). Its about you, not about foreign policy. Oil is a commodity and I am not condoning the war or anything about it but our leaders did what they thought was best to secure that commodity. Yes it it hasn't turned out well but that’s how life is, and politics are no different.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

take it from me as i see day in day out, the people in power right now could care less about either your future or your kids'(unless you re a major stakeholder at a "halliburton") i hate taxes like i hate inter but i am afraid this scourge needs to be flushed even at the expense, pun intended, of higher taxes

 

[swag]

I don't quite see Obama as a pawn per se. Which isn't to say the guy doesn't have his flaws. A big factor in the success of a president is really who they surround themselves with, who they listen to, and who they choose to ignore.

Bush failed miserably on that count -- it is perhaps his most fatal flaw. McCain has gone from good to bad. Obama has had his troubles in recognizing the importance of this.

A lot of politics is about hoping to save the world and themselves heading into an election, and then after the election coming down to the reality that the toilet is clogged and you only have half a plunger. Whoever wins is going to be a one-term president given the financial background these days, much like Bush Sr. in '88.

Even so, I'm not so idiotic as to plot for a presidential failure for four years to reap the benefits in '12. I still think that Obama, despite his many flaws, offers more of a way out that McCain would. And I just trust the guy more to be truthful about hard decisions we have to make. McCain had that quality locked up a bit in '00, but in '08 he's a mess given all his handlers.

 

[.zero]

it ain't trickin if you got it

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

Years of experience from the other end?



Btw, my wife just landed in Toronto an hour ago. Be on the lookout for international incidents in the news.

Though at 0.92 Canadian dollars to the American dollar, we can't afford too much these days.

if she is anything like you, i can expect "american woman wins canadian elections by beating party leaders in debate"

 

[swag]

if she is anything like you, i can expect "american woman wins canadian elections by beating party leaders in debate"

Let me put it this way: she is paid as a professional communicator and is flying out to Toronto to train people on how to do just that in the most effective way in front of cameras, reporters, etc.

In other words, she can run circles around me.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

i know what you mean, i love telling people "shut the fuck up, of course i am right, i do this for a living"

 

[Martin]

That’s the problem. This election is not for america to win a popularity contest. Take it from me when I say I don't give a fuck what the rest of the world thinks about america, its leaders, its people, its culture or whatever else non-americans trash about my country.

This election isn't about foreigners, other countries or making the rest of the world like us. Its about the american people (ideally). We are the ones who vote in our best interest for our cities, towns, states. What this president can do for me is all I care about. Not for the EU and U.N.

If your only concern is about the worlds opinion about the U.S. and iraq and american soldiers then please refrain from posting in this thread.

Dru, how do I put this? It's total crap. You are a citizen of the world's superpower. You may not have asked for that (but then again why else would you drag your ass over there in the first place?), but that's the reality of things. I don't think it's acceptable for an ignorant redneck to say "all I care about is my country", but far less for you: an educated, well informed, intelligent person.

So let's turn off that crap about "the world's opinion about the US", this is way more serious than that. Your government is meddling in the affairs of sovereign states, which it has been doing at least since WW2. The Iraq war is perhaps the most egregious example along with Vietnam. And this being the case, the fact that you're capable of saying "I don't give a shit if our leaders nuke the whole world, all I care about is paying less taxes" is incomprehensible. Maybe it is the fact that the US has never fought a war on its own soil and the population doesn't appreciate the misery of it.

But it's the population voting these evil sons of bitches into office that is responsible (yes, responsible!) for the fact that thousands of people have died and continue to die. And as is completely obvious, this would NOT have happened if the other guy (who did technically win) had been in charge. Which you turn around as an argument to justify your horrible choice.

That is the very minimum of moral responsibility you can take.


So when people around here get all heated about the US's foreign policy, that's because it fucking affects us. And it's not our government doing it, it's yours! So don't give me that crap about "this is about America", the hell it is.

 

[.zero]

Dru, how do I put this? It's total crap. You are a citizen of the world's superpower. You may not have asked for that (but then again why else would you drag your ass over there in the first place?), but that's the reality of things. I don't think it's acceptable for an ignorant redneck to say "all I care about is my country", but far less for you: an educated, well informed, intelligent person.

So let's turn off that crap about "the world's opinion about the US", this is way more serious than that. Your government is meddling in the affairs of sovereign states, which it has been doing at least since WW2. The Iraq war is perhaps the most egregious example along with Vietnam. And this being the case, the fact that you're capable of saying "I don't give a shit if our leaders nuke the whole world, all I care about is paying less taxes" is incomprehensible. Maybe it is the fact that the US has never fought a war on its own soil and the population doesn't appreciate the misery of it.

But it's the population voting these evil sons of bitches into office that is responsible (yes, responsible!) for the fact that thousands of people have died and continue to die. And as is completely obvious, this would NOT have happened if the other guy (who did technically win) had been in charge. Which you turn around as an argument to justify your horrible choice.

That is the very minimum of moral responsibility you can take.


So when people around here get all heated about the US's foreign policy, that's because it fucking affects us. And it's not our government doing it, it's yours! So don't give me that crap about "this is about America", the hell it is.

I understand what you are saying martin but now you are making this as a moral decision for u.s. citizens.

hypothetically, what if one candidate offers the best measures and change for the people of the U.S. but his foreign policy strategy blows.

While on the other hand the other candidate has the most supported (by the majority of sovereign nations) foreign policy approach but his plans for his own people and this countries infrastructure are less than impressive.

Now as an educated, well informed, intelligent person what am I to do? <remember its purely hypothetical>

In any country, any election decided "by the people", the last thing on any voters mind is someone else. We can all claim to be as socio-politically conscious as we want but at the end of the day we still have to do what is in our own personal best interests.

Neither one of these candidates make the sun shine brighter. The logic people here are using to decide who they would choose is whats flawed.

 

[Martin]

I understand what you are saying martin but now you are making this as a moral decision for u.s. citizens.

hypothetically, what if one candidate offers the best measures and change for the people of the U.S. but his foreign policy strategy blows.

While on the other hand the other candidate has the most supported (by the majority of sovereign nations) foreign policy approach but his plans for his own people and this countries infrastructure are less than impressive.

Now as an educated, well informed, intelligent person what am I to do? <remember its purely hypothetical>

I see, what terrible suffering you endure. To live in the most prosperous country on earth and still have to put up with dilemmas like this, I really sympathize. Is that what you want me to say?

Yes, I realize it is entirely possible that a guy who will maintain peace with other countries can also make decisions that are not the ones you want. So what? Is this a new thing? Hitler (Godwin's law) did the same fecking thing, or did you miss WW2? He did exactly what was "good for the country", in the short term. And to hell with everything else. That's why Germans to this day are shamed by their own history, because they were told Germany would prosper (and it did, briefly) and they fell for it. OF COURSE the guy who wants you to sign the blank check on foreign policy will lure you with promises of riches. What the hell did you expect?

After all, I don't live there. Here's my attitude. If it were up to me to vote for an evil, belligerent leader who craves war and has no respect for international agreements, I would vote for the other guy. By the same token I wouldn't vote for the racist candidate, or one that discriminates against certain groups. It's not like my situation is so dire that my house was flooded, I have no home and I've sunk to a level of looting abandoned stores for goods because I have nothing left to lose. Maybe if Katrina did strike, I can understand that. But no, I still have a house, I'm on the frickin internet ffs.

Neither one of these candidates make the sun shine brighter. The logic people here are using to decide who they would choose is whats flawed.

A guy has been pulled off from the street, just some random person who happened to walk by. Your friend is holding a gun to his head, because he's decided that would be fun. You have two options. You can tell him not to shoot, or you can tell him whatever he decides is fine with you. What's your decision?

 

[.zero]

you obviously don't understand what i'm saying based on you condescending responses. but if it makes you feel better then please carry on. hopefully you and the others here who would have embraced Obama and his greatness have swayed enough votes his way to usher in a glorious age of international peace and for the U.S. to win the ever-so coveted "the most popular country" award for the next 4 years, maybe even 8 if we're lucky.

 

[Martin]

you obviously don't understand what i'm saying based on you condescending responses.

It wouldn't be the first time. So what exactly are you saying?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

no instead we shall revel in more gramm sponsored dereg, and a vice president who's never been outside the US(canada doesnt count) and names her kid trigger. At which point, i will get out of here.

 

[.zero]

It wouldn't be the first time. So what exactly are you saying?

i've already explained throughout this thread. its fruitless to restate any of my posts. but whats most interesting about all this is that you and everyone else have given me reasons to not vote for McCain which is fine but no one but greg has given me a reason to vote for Obama.

and once again i remind you that i don't plan on voting for either. especially not McCain.