The Super League (15 Viewers)

[pavelnel]

I agree - there’s no question Italy holds us back right now but serie a is also the whole reason for our existence and over the years it helped us. When serie a was booming in the 90s so were we.

But you cannot turn your back on the history. I’m not against the concept of a competition that pays higher rewards and contains the top clubs. But it absolutely cannot be an exclusive competition - in fact that’s not even a competition it’s WWE, it’s a procession.

If we finish 5th this season and Arsenal finish 9th this competition is a renamed Europa league. It’s no teams god given entitlement. In football you have to earn your right to compete at the highest level.

The main fucking problem with this club at the moment is that we have a sense of entitlement from the management right through to the appalling footballers. Dybala thinks he’s worth 15m, Pirlo talks about how our players don’t give enough effort or focus to the smaller opponents, Rabiot and Bentancur think they can cruise in 1st gear and feel entitled.

So much anger on this forum is directed at the lack of determination, focus and effort our players and management put in and how they don’t represent the ‘Fino Alla Fine’ motto of this club and then those same members come out in support of a league where our team will literally be able to finish last and still compete next season with no consequences. What kind of fucked up message are we communicating here.

This concept is a disgrace and this club is quickly turning into everything that is wrong in football. Americanisation of sport at its finest

Do not worry. The feeble minds here that are so vocal against CL are a very small minority. Most fans around Europe, all government bodies and responsible institutions are against the SL. These "founders" clubs have an uphill battle ahead of them.
It is quite possible that these clubs will alienate many if not most of their European fans and we pay the bills. Despite all the talks about global reach and other BS stuff the fans outside Europe spend significantly less on average and in total on football.
This proposed SL is dead in the water at the moment, if the European institutions do their job and the fans continue to oppose it.There are so many levers that they could push if they decide to react with the hammer.
For example, the privileged tax status these clubs and players enjoy could be removed, among many other privileges they enjoy. UEFA and the national leagues could expell them, ban transfers, ban players from participation in any competition and also take legal action. Let's see how these clubs will manage with the "massive" income from overseas operations selling counterfeit shirts to the Chinese.

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[Gigiventus]

I am not a domestic fan and I would like to see their point of view. What is it that makes them against this?

Its a closed competition with guaranteed money for the people making it. There is no promotion/relegation so it's a rich club designed to make 12 clubs richer.

Instead of making a system that builds on local leagues you are making a system that is separate from it. It will hurt the local leagues, which is why local fans are against it. No fan association in europe will be for this. It eliminates the significance of a Juve-Fiorentina or a Juve-Torino for Juve. Do we play the kids in Serie A? do we always rest players? doesn't really matter if there is no sporting incentive to do well in Serie A regarding the ESL. If we don't need to qualify this season to CL we wouldn't be seeing this level of tension about Juve getting 4th place. The league becomes irrelevant to us the moment that Inter distanced itself to the title because 4th or 5th makes no difference.

These matches also become less relevant for other teams. If we eliminate Juve, Inter, and Milan from the table and look to who are the top 4 that would qualify for CL next season we have Atalanta with a 20 point gap over Sassuolo. They mathematically already would have CL football at this stage. Having 3 teams on the top of the table that are out of contention for qualification spots warps the competition.

In the end all local fans will suffer from this decision.

 

[kappa96]

jp morgan was rumored to finance the super league, now they confirmed it:


on an other note:


lol, fuck'em

They owners are so out of touch with reality that they don't even care that Juve and those trannies clubs carry the league on it's back.

 

[Nzoric]

Its a closed competition with guaranteed money for the people making it. There is no promotion/relegation so it's a rich club designed to make 12 clubs richer.

Instead of making a system that builds on local leagues you are making a system that is separate from it. It will hurt the local leagues, which is why local fans are against it. No fan association in europe will be for this. It eliminates the significance of a Juve-Fiorentina or a Juve-Torino for Juve. Do we play the kids in Serie A? do we always rest players? doesn't really matter if there is no sporting incentive to do well in Serie A regarding the ESL. If we don't need to qualify this season to CL we wouldn't be seeing this level of tension about Juve getting 4th place. The league becomes irrelevant to us the moment that Inter distanced itself to the title because 4th or 5th makes no difference.

These matches also become less relevant for other teams. If we eliminate Juve, Inter, and Milan from the table and look to who are the top 4 that would qualify for CL next season we have Atalanta with a 20 point gap over Sassuolo. They mathematically already would have CL football at this stage. Having 3 teams on the top of the table that are out of contention for qualification spots warps the competition.

In the end all local fans will suffer from this decision.

And even worse if we get to play both CHL and SL Thrice the money and even less for the others.

Local fans, traditions, prestige, history etc. doesn't matter to the Unibrow. It's all money.

 

[K.O.]

Clubs outside of the super league are doomed to this situation. Its the worst version of the current EL/CL system because the super league is a closed competition for its founders.

The format of the ESL suggests there will be places for other clubs to participate based on their sporting achievement.

Because they become less relevant. The elite clubs qualify for the super league regardless of domestic results. Why should we care if Juve places 5th or 4th this season if anyway we have our big european competition? it changes the priorities and thus changes the level of competition. The next TV deal for domestic competition will be lower than the current one, same for the next deal for CL/EL, and everyone loses except for the clubs in the ESL.

I agree 100% @K.O.

The domestic league loses all significance. All TV deals will be aiming to get in on the Superleague, few will be interested in showing the weekend training matches in the Serie A.

The media outlets who compete for TV rights are way too many to be concerned about a 'significant' decrease in TV rights for domestic leagues. If Sky gets the rights to air the ESL exclusively, then DAZN and ESPN will fight for other competitions as long as the elite clubs are still in them.

 

[Gigiventus]

The format of the ESL suggests there will be places for other clubs to participate based on their sporting achievement.

4 spots up for grabs, out of 20, for the entire continent of football. While 16 teams get the guaranteed revenue every year.

 

[JCK]

 

[Inglip]

Fire Tici, hire her

 

[Gigiventus]

The notion that clubs like Atalanta grow significantly if they qualify to CL has proven to be incorrect. In 5 seasons between 2016 and 2021 Atalanta will have finished in CL spots 4 times out of 5, yet their wage bill is still very midtable in Serie A. The money that CL gets them isn't enough for them to catch up with the likes of Roma or Lazio longterm, let alone Milan or Inter. Same with Roma, whether they do or don't do well in CL, the FFP will still doom them to be a selling club.

How is it proven false? look at the numbers and the progression.

Atalanta has progressively increased their budget and profile of signings/teams every season.

Their wage bill is midtable Serie A? yes, but where was their wage bill before? they were at the bottom of Serie A. 10 years ago they were in Serie B. CL money has allowed them to consolidate into a Serie A team without a doubt. CL money is huge for a club like Juve, and much much bigger for a club like Atalanta.

 

[TheLaz]

Football is a fan-based sport. A club with 10 fans(juve) is 10 times the club of 1 fan(Porto). If the club with 1 fan(Porto) earns the same amount of money, the club of 10 fans(Juve) suffers. Elite clubs who are directly funneling viewers into a competition(Juve - not Porto) wants to be guaranteed more money (the money they bring with the viewers)..

As bitter as i might be on our performances in recent years, I don't find the CL playoff games involving smaller clubs to be remotely as interesting as those involving big teams.. And then you have two games played at the same time.. Imagine having only quality teams playing and being able to watch all the games live instead of having to choose.

Another major key to all this is the curruption going on in UEFA and FIFA( Qatar "&A€A*".. Shameful event!). A new organisation would be a fresh start with, hopefully, more quality and less top-down decisions..

 

[Akshen]

there must be some really deep shit if they were able to gather 12 biggest and richest clubs and sign this idea, either uefa is really fucking up this clubs or the new changes are so stupid they couldnt agree on it.

 

[JCK]

Fire Tici, hire her

When things get going, Tici has no place in the ESL

 

[Elvin]

Its a closed competition with guaranteed money for the people making it. There is no promotion/relegation so it's a rich club designed to make 12 clubs richer.

Instead of making a system that builds on local leagues you are making a system that is separate from it. It will hurt the local leagues, which is why local fans are against it. No fan association in europe will be for this. It eliminates the significance of a Juve-Fiorentina or a Juve-Torino for Juve. Do we play the kids in Serie A? do we always rest players? doesn't really matter if there is no sporting incentive to do well in Serie A regarding the ESL. If we don't need to qualify this season to CL we wouldn't be seeing this level of tension about Juve getting 4th place. The league becomes irrelevant to us the moment that Inter distanced itself to the title because 4th or 5th makes no difference.

These matches also become less relevant for other teams. If we eliminate Juve, Inter, and Milan from the table and look to who are the top 4 that would qualify for CL next season we have Atalanta with a 20 point gap over Sassuolo. They mathematically already would have CL football at this stage. Having 3 teams on the top of the table that are out of contention for qualification spots warps the competition.

In the end all local fans will suffer from this decision.

Local leagues themselves are at fault for this, especially in Italy. They were doing literally nothing to progress their archaic league and even worse, were actively preventing those that did work their asses off for progress.

 

[kappa96]

Do not worry. The feeble minds here that are so vocal against CL are a very small minority. Most fans around Europe, all government bodies and responsible institutions are against the SL. These "founders" clubs have an uphill battle ahead of them.
It is quite possible that these clubs will alienate many if not most of their European fans and we pay the bills. Despite all the talks about global reach and other BS stuff the fans outside Europe spend significantly less on average and in total on football.
This proposed SL is dead in the water at the moment, if the European institutions do their job and the fans continue to oppose it.There are so many levers that they could push if they decide to react with the hammer.
For example, the privileged tax status these clubs and players enjoy could be removed, among many other privileges they enjoy. UEFA and the national leagues could expell them, ban transfers, ban players from participation in any competition and also take legal action. Let's see how these clubs will manage with the "massive" income from overseas operations selling counterfeit shirts to the Chinese.

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Wanna bet that the plan goes ahead and SL will be formed?
If UEFA bans the teams from their Leagues, they will breach anti-trust laws in the EU.
They have a monopoly and want to keep it that way by banning said clubs.

UEFA will have to explain what is the reason for banning only said clubs from competing. And the reason can't be, because we want them to stop competing against us.
I might be wrong but I think that's how it goes.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

I think this SL news just extended my life span by at least 20 years

Football was getting boring and repetitive.

And what better way to fight boredom & repetitiveness then to make sure the very same teams are competing each & every year?

How many times have we said “I am done with this team, never watching them again” but we always come back. People will still watch this league.
another point is broadcasters could stop this in it's tracks..... The fans don't turn up to the games, and the broadcasters refuse to televise it, or ever report on it per-se.

I don't know, I can be quite stubborn at times.

When prices for home games went through the roof, I decided not to attend them anymore & stop giving money to the club for merchandise crap. And I stuck to it. Only attended away games since then.

To be honest, I've become less & less attached to this club over the past 3 or so years anyway. The empty stadiums due to COVID made me lose even more interest. Both in Juve & football in general. (I have watched far less than 50% of our games since the pandemic began.)
So, for me personally, this would be where it ends, I think.

I'll probably still continue going to local games over here with my friends, though. I do like the sport itself. And the general vibe in & around stadiums.

Edit: I'm obviously speaking as someone for who a football game is to be attended & watched from the stands, not on TV. I do realize that I'm not part of the majority here.

 

[TheLaz]

And what better way to fight boredom & repetitiveness then to make sure the very same teams are competing each & every year?




I don't know, I can be quite stubborn at times.

When prices for home games went through the roof, I decided not to attend them anymore & stop giving money to the club for merchandise crap. And I stuck to it. Only attended away games since then.

To be honest, I've become less & less attached to this club over the past 3 or so years anyway. The empty stadiums due to COVID made me lose even more interest. Both in Juve & football in general. (I have watched far less than 50% of our games since the pandemic began.)
So, for me personally, this would be where it ends, I think.

I'll probably still continue going to local games over here with my friends, though. I do like the sport itself. And the general vibe in & around stadiums.

If they ban any of the top teams involved with ESL, the CL will face major issues with TV rights (main source of income) as the viewers will back off. Major issues there. ESL is in power as they represent to top clubs everyone wants to watch.

 

[Inglip]

And what better way to fight boredom & repetitiveness then to make sure the very same teams are competing each & every year?

Its like in F1 they let cars of other classes race, would that be more fun?

 

[Elvin]

If they ban any of the top teams involved with ESL, the CL will face major issues with TV rights (main source of income) as the viewers will back off. Major issues there. ESL is in power as they represent to top clubs everyone wants to watch.

Replace Tottenham & Chelsea with PSG & Bayern and I will argue that they represent most football fans in the world.

 

[Strickland]

How is it proven false? look at the numbers and the progression.

Atalanta has progressively increased their budget and profile of signings/teams every season.

Their wage bill is midtable Serie A? yes, but where was their wage bill before? they were at the bottom of Serie A. 10 years ago they were in Serie B. CL money has allowed them to consolidate into a Serie A team without a doubt. CL money is huge for a club like Juve, and much much bigger for a club like Atalanta.

Atalanta's total wage bill in 2016/17 was 24m (14th in league), Milan's was 80m (4th in league), the difference between them 56m. Between 2016/17-2019/20 Atalanta qualified for CL 3 times out of 4, Milan 0 times out of 4, an incredible achievement for a team of Atalanta's stature that they're likely to pull off again 2020/21.

And 4 seasons later Atalantas wage bill is 42.6m (11th in league), Milans is 90m (5th in league), the difference is 47.4m. So yeah, for sure they've diminished the gap by almost 10m in absolute numbers and a lot more in relative percentages, but at this rate how many seasons of incredibly punching above your weight would it take to catch up? Is it even possible?

The system in place already is unfair to the small clubs, sporting accomplishments don't pay accordingly and the gap between the rich, the poor and the very poor has been getting larger and larger for decades now. ESL wouldn't be destroying something that's working, it'd just be replacing one system that's bad for the little guys with another one that's just as bad for the little guys.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Its like in F1 they let cars of other classes race, would that be more fun?

I honestly don't know how to make something like F1 fun.