The Lebanese political crisis!!! (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter JCK
- Start date
You said it many times that Palestinians left the country because of promises made by certain leaders. Let us not look at the consequences in another point of view now. We all know that the wars back then were not wars, they were simply surrenders. Who to blame but yourselves?
Beer and potatoes were just examples
I can give you more and then we'll talk about gold.
Again you mentioned something that you tried to ignore from my original post (propaganda). I am a strong opposer of the US foreign politics but if they are to make my country independant of Syrian influence at the expense of chaos in the region, I don't really care about my neighbouring countries anymore, I've had it enough with them for 25 years or more now, let them start their plan now before tormorrow.
Beer and potatoes were just examples
I can give you more and then we'll talk about gold.Again you mentioned something that you tried to ignore from my original post (propaganda). I am a strong opposer of the US foreign politics but if they are to make my country independant of Syrian influence at the expense of chaos in the region, I don't really care about my neighbouring countries anymore, I've had it enough with them for 25 years or more now, let them start their plan now before tormorrow.
Jacques said:
I am sorry for the correction, but his name is Pierre Al-Jmayyel
Over the years Syria have assassinated politicians in Lebanon and they were the most obvious.
Elie Hobeika, a well known graduate of the Lebanese Forces militia, had a problem within the militia that led to him leaving the whole party. Later on he was known to be a great ally of Syria, which made him so close to getting the beloved chair. Only when things were going his way, he decided to stop the alliance with Syria, days afterwards he was assassinated. Obvious but no one accuses Syria because no one wants to.
Rafik Hariri, well we all know he got to the power using two means, his money and Syria. He had to and I understand him very much. After he saw that the country was getting on its feet, realized that it does need the Syrian support anymore, we all know what happened.
Gebran Toueni, a long opposer of the Syrian regime and interference in Lebanese politics, shall we say what happened with him?
Let us go back to history. Kamal Jumblat, one of the men who brought the independance from the French.
Rene Mouawad
Bachir Gemayel
ALL of them were obvious targets of Syria and all the time Syria was not accused because we don't want to accuse "the sister"
Smair Ja3ja3 is a criminal as much as Michel Aoun is. Why would you accuse Samir Ja3ja3 and not Syria's very own nemesis and current newest ally? Only because Samir's politics are towards the monster and now Michel's politics are against the monster. Again I say one word: LAUGHABLE.
Over the years Syria have assassinated politicians in Lebanon and they were the most obvious.
Elie Hobeika, a well known graduate of the Lebanese Forces militia, had a problem within the militia that led to him leaving the whole party. Later on he was known to be a great ally of Syria, which made him so close to getting the beloved chair. Only when things were going his way, he decided to stop the alliance with Syria, days afterwards he was assassinated. Obvious but no one accuses Syria because no one wants to.
Rafik Hariri, well we all know he got to the power using two means, his money and Syria. He had to and I understand him very much. After he saw that the country was getting on its feet, realized that it does need the Syrian support anymore, we all know what happened.
Gebran Toueni, a long opposer of the Syrian regime and interference in Lebanese politics, shall we say what happened with him?
Let us go back to history. Kamal Jumblat, one of the men who brought the independance from the French.
Rene Mouawad
Bachir Gemayel
ALL of them were obvious targets of Syria and all the time Syria was not accused because we don't want to accuse "the sister"
Smair Ja3ja3 is a criminal as much as Michel Aoun is. Why would you accuse Samir Ja3ja3 and not Syria's very own nemesis and current newest ally? Only because Samir's politics are towards the monster and now Michel's politics are against the monster. Again I say one word: LAUGHABLE.
I don't think Syrian state is so stupid to do such things...
That's it...
Not really, Arabian countries were more or less one empire for more than a 1000 years, it was cut into chunks less than a century ago...
Not more different than say a Texan and a New Englander...Hell a New Yorker and a Hawaiian is even more different than Saudi's and Egyptians.
Suppose 100 years down the line, the Great America, was cut into pieces and chunks, say 10 chunks...would you tell me that your grand children, who incedently live in the Republic of California, would not feel an emotional tie with the people living in the Texan Confederate? Wouldn't they feel frustrated that what once a country ruling the world are fighting amongst each other? Wouldn't they feel desperate that what their forefathers have built they destroyed?
About the Iraq issue, which is valid, I don't think its right or logical to blame the "West" or French and British, they were only the facilitators. Arabs should blame themselves. How did their ancestors live united? The religious map didn't really change that much since then...If you want to see a united Iraq, or a United pan-arab for that matter, a major mentality shift is due. Which could take centuries.
Not more different than say a Texan and a New Englander...Hell a New Yorker and a Hawaiian is even more different than Saudi's and Egyptians.
Suppose 100 years down the line, the Great America, was cut into pieces and chunks, say 10 chunks...would you tell me that your grand children, who incedently live in the Republic of California, would not feel an emotional tie with the people living in the Texan Confederate? Wouldn't they feel frustrated that what once a country ruling the world are fighting amongst each other? Wouldn't they feel desperate that what their forefathers have built they destroyed?
About the Iraq issue, which is valid, I don't think its right or logical to blame the "West" or French and British, they were only the facilitators. Arabs should blame themselves. How did their ancestors live united? The religious map didn't really change that much since then...If you want to see a united Iraq, or a United pan-arab for that matter, a major mentality shift is due. Which could take centuries.
Jacques said:
You said it many times that Palestinians left the country because of promises made by certain leaders. Let us not look at the consequences in another point of view now. We all know that the wars back then were not wars, they were simply surrenders. Who to blame but yourselves?
Beer and potatoes were just examples I can give you more and then we'll talk about gold.
Again you mentioned something that you tried to ignore from my original post (propaganda). I am a strong opposer of the US foreign politics but if they are to make my country independant of Syrian influence at the expense of chaos in the region, I don't really care about my neighbouring countries anymore, I've had it enough with them for 25 years or more now, let them start their plan now before tormorrow.
Beer and potatoes were just examples
I can give you more and then we'll talk about gold.Again you mentioned something that you tried to ignore from my original post (propaganda). I am a strong opposer of the US foreign politics but if they are to make my country independant of Syrian influence at the expense of chaos in the region, I don't really care about my neighbouring countries anymore, I've had it enough with them for 25 years or more now, let them start their plan now before tormorrow.
well.. unfortunately a peace treaty doesnt go with hezbollah.. i doubt that they'll have any sort of agreement with israel...
so in the end you just have to live with the fact that lebanon is not all christians.. its a MIX of many religions... and each one has its own agenda.
this is a fact of life in lebanon.. nothing you or i could change.. unless you wanna wipe out all muslims in that region.
and why do you hate hezbolla? didnt they defend lebanon when israel invaded?
so in the end you just have to live with the fact that lebanon is not all christians.. its a MIX of many religions... and each one has its own agenda.
this is a fact of life in lebanon.. nothing you or i could change.. unless you wanna wipe out all muslims in that region.
and why do you hate hezbolla? didnt they defend lebanon when israel invaded?
It was our fault, I admit that but look what happened when we realized it was a mistake and tried to correct it. Palestinians occupy regions in the country that no one knows what goes on in there. Lebanese police officers get killed if they attempt to go in. The Lebanese army s forbidden to get near. Hello, are you staying on Lebanese grounds or what?
Syria, they were asked in to help. When asked to get out because the help was not needed anymore, they refused. When they were forced to get out they start the massacres.
Lovely, just lovely.
I have a question, where you in a Palestinian camp in Lebanon before going to the UAE?
Syria, they were asked in to help. When asked to get out because the help was not needed anymore, they refused. When they were forced to get out they start the massacres.
Lovely, just lovely.
I have a question, where you in a Palestinian camp in Lebanon before going to the UAE?
There was no reason for the last invasion had not Mr nasralla decided to poke the monster.
Unfortunately, Shiites and a part of the Christians nowadays are the ones with the Hezballa and Syrian power. Most of the Sunnis and a bigger part of the Christians don't want it. So you got your facts wrong, it is not seperated as you described it between Muslims and Christians.
Unfortunately, Shiites and a part of the Christians nowadays are the ones with the Hezballa and Syrian power. Most of the Sunnis and a bigger part of the Christians don't want it. So you got your facts wrong, it is not seperated as you described it between Muslims and Christians.
I don't blame anybody but myself and my ancestors...
You were not there when we, the grandsons, sat with our grandfather before around fifteen years to blame him for running like a chicken from his land to a country that used him as a source for international aids...
We were so violent to the eighty-year-old guy but it was because of insults said to us all over our lives in many Arab countries just like the one I heard while I was in Saudi Arabia (You coward. You sold your land to jews, and now you want to steal the goods of our Saudi Arabia) and I wasn't stealing anything. I was just a 8 year old student...
I saw the tears in his eyes when seeing his grandsons asking him that question, and he couldn't provide us with anything but "We thought we have brothers in the neighbour countries. If we knew we would be left alone, we wouldn't leave our homes"...
He left us since 8 years, but those words won't be forgotten from my memory...
As our greatest novelist put it before 35 years "If you want something, you have to use your own arms, your own hands and your own fingers"...
I don't think there will be any golden benifit, Jack...
They won't make any useful things to your country because it will mean that you will stay in that country, and that will delay their zionist project in the whole region...
I have to remind you that those words were said too by Iraqis...
Look to the heaven made by the occupiers over there right now...
I don't think you want your country becoming another Iraq, Jack...
You were not there when we, the grandsons, sat with our grandfather before around fifteen years to blame him for running like a chicken from his land to a country that used him as a source for international aids...
We were so violent to the eighty-year-old guy but it was because of insults said to us all over our lives in many Arab countries just like the one I heard while I was in Saudi Arabia (You coward. You sold your land to jews, and now you want to steal the goods of our Saudi Arabia) and I wasn't stealing anything. I was just a 8 year old student...
I saw the tears in his eyes when seeing his grandsons asking him that question, and he couldn't provide us with anything but "We thought we have brothers in the neighbour countries. If we knew we would be left alone, we wouldn't leave our homes"...
He left us since 8 years, but those words won't be forgotten from my memory...
As our greatest novelist put it before 35 years "If you want something, you have to use your own arms, your own hands and your own fingers"...
Jacques said:
Beer and potatoes were just examples I can give you more and then we'll talk about gold.
I can give you more and then we'll talk about gold.
They won't make any useful things to your country because it will mean that you will stay in that country, and that will delay their zionist project in the whole region...
I have to remind you that those words were said too by Iraqis...
Look to the heaven made by the occupiers over there right now...
I don't think you want your country becoming another Iraq, Jack...
Poke the Monster?
do you understand what im trying to tell you? they're not trying to POKE it... they're trying to get RID of it...
theres a divide now.... some people are OK with israel invading/occupying palestine.. and just want to live their lives "most of them left to the states or the uK"
whilst others still believe they can get their land back and want to die fighting for it.
thats the problem... you have two groups of ppl here.. on the same bit of land.. with two different agendas.
the sunnis bent over to the US and israel a long time ago... especially in the gulf countries... whereas iran and the shiites dont want anything to do with the US or isreal.. they want to get them out of jerusalem.
do you understand what im trying to tell you? they're not trying to POKE it... they're trying to get RID of it...
theres a divide now.... some people are OK with israel invading/occupying palestine.. and just want to live their lives "most of them left to the states or the uK"
whilst others still believe they can get their land back and want to die fighting for it.
thats the problem... you have two groups of ppl here.. on the same bit of land.. with two different agendas.
the sunnis bent over to the US and israel a long time ago... especially in the gulf countries... whereas iran and the shiites dont want anything to do with the US or isreal.. they want to get them out of jerusalem.
That's a very valid point...
I so respected the Lebanese authorities that didn't accept to get the 400 Palestinians who were exiled by Israle in 1994, because they didn't want those to have another land but their lands...
We all know that Israel had no another choice but sending them back to the palestinian land, although in prisons...
It was a so brave step from the Lebanese government that deserved recognition...
I so respected the Lebanese authorities that didn't accept to get the 400 Palestinians who were exiled by Israle in 1994, because they didn't want those to have another land but their lands...
We all know that Israel had no another choice but sending them back to the palestinian land, although in prisons...
It was a so brave step from the Lebanese government that deserved recognition...
What do you exactly mean address the Lebanese people?
-Do you mean allowing Syrian Security Service kidnapp our people who are against Syria?
-Do you mean allowing any Syrian soldier to rape our women?
-Do you mean stealing our electricity and water?
-Do you mean "Bank Al Madinna"???
Please, when you want to say Hezbollah are Lebanese and do address Lebanese people, you better re-check your facts before stating something like this. I can be Lebanese on paper but on the same time allow some foreigners turn my country up-side down?
They fought for their Personal Interest and nothing more.
I'll tell you where was the Christian Militia that day, Christian Militia that day were protecting Lebanon from the Palestinians If you didn't know. Without them, Palestinians were about to build their own country on our country. Yet again, Fanataics Muslim people would prefer another Muslim on their Christian Lebanese.
I praise Bashir Gemayel and Samir Jaajaa and all these who were dealing with Israel, that was the only way to end on the Palestinians in our country. I would have done the same TBH.
Why is it that in Saudi, Syria, Jordan Egypt all these arabic countries Palestinians were and still are not allowed to hold weapons but in Lebanon? why should we accept that? why should our Lebanese civilians get killed because Palestine would want to free their land FROM our land.
Just for your Information, I'm Mulsim(Shiie) but I'd take 1 Christian Lebanese over any/thousands of muslim non lebanese of course in this world. No offence to anyone.
My homeland is by far ahead of something called Religion.
Maybe you haven't followed the Lebanese civil war good. Sabra Chatila was organized between Hafez Assad who was giving green light from Sharon.
Seriously, you keep on talking about Christian Leaders, yet you probably don't know that even "Shiia" were killing each-others everyday, Hezballah and Haraket Amal.
I don't see them going there, I see Hezbollah fighting for their Personal Interest that contains themselves and Syria, they take orders from Demascus to do what they're doing. And It's a fact that you can't deny.
Answer my question please. Why do Syria have to finance Hezbollah (Weapons and Money) when Infact they are not even Interestend for their Golan Land???
Seriously let everyone do the math, You give a party who are fighting for their land as you said, you give them weapons money and help them to free their land, when you can't free yours. Interesting eh?
No, But I see Iran doing their homework on our land. Does the last war on Lebanon knock any door?
Don't take It personal, but thats the lamest thing I've heard since some good time.
Even Bashar said It 2months and half ago, that Lebanon could be facing the same thing that is happening in Iraq. Bashar is ready to let all these Qaedda to enter Lebanon and turn the country to hell, this way he can run from the "International Trial".
People who do assasinate and torture, you really do expect them to do something like this. He's a Terror of the 21st century.
The day Nasrallah will accept the "International Trial Court" and will accept to have Embassies between us and Syria, and when he'll put his relationship with Ahmady Najjad and Bashar not on ther Lebanese Interest, will be the day I'll probably stand him.
Till now, he chose to put the gov down, 14march chose to support our gov.
We'll see If he'll manage to put our Prime minister Sanyoura down.
-Do you mean allowing Syrian Security Service kidnapp our people who are against Syria?
-Do you mean allowing any Syrian soldier to rape our women?
-Do you mean stealing our electricity and water?
-Do you mean "Bank Al Madinna"???
Please, when you want to say Hezbollah are Lebanese and do address Lebanese people, you better re-check your facts before stating something like this. I can be Lebanese on paper but on the same time allow some foreigners turn my country up-side down?
They fought for their Personal Interest and nothing more.
I'll tell you where was the Christian Militia that day, Christian Militia that day were protecting Lebanon from the Palestinians If you didn't know. Without them, Palestinians were about to build their own country on our country. Yet again, Fanataics Muslim people would prefer another Muslim on their Christian Lebanese.
I praise Bashir Gemayel and Samir Jaajaa and all these who were dealing with Israel, that was the only way to end on the Palestinians in our country. I would have done the same TBH.
Why is it that in Saudi, Syria, Jordan Egypt all these arabic countries Palestinians were and still are not allowed to hold weapons but in Lebanon? why should we accept that? why should our Lebanese civilians get killed because Palestine would want to free their land FROM our land.
Just for your Information, I'm Mulsim(Shiie) but I'd take 1 Christian Lebanese over any/thousands of muslim non lebanese of course in this world. No offence to anyone.
My homeland is by far ahead of something called Religion.
Maybe you haven't followed the Lebanese civil war good. Sabra Chatila was organized between Hafez Assad who was giving green light from Sharon.
Seriously, you keep on talking about Christian Leaders, yet you probably don't know that even "Shiia" were killing each-others everyday, Hezballah and Haraket Amal.
I don't see them going there, I see Hezbollah fighting for their Personal Interest that contains themselves and Syria, they take orders from Demascus to do what they're doing. And It's a fact that you can't deny.
Answer my question please. Why do Syria have to finance Hezbollah (Weapons and Money) when Infact they are not even Interestend for their Golan Land???
Seriously let everyone do the math, You give a party who are fighting for their land as you said, you give them weapons money and help them to free their land, when you can't free yours. Interesting eh?
No, But I see Iran doing their homework on our land. Does the last war on Lebanon knock any door?
Don't take It personal, but thats the lamest thing I've heard since some good time.
Even Bashar said It 2months and half ago, that Lebanon could be facing the same thing that is happening in Iraq. Bashar is ready to let all these Qaedda to enter Lebanon and turn the country to hell, this way he can run from the "International Trial".
People who do assasinate and torture, you really do expect them to do something like this. He's a Terror of the 21st century.
The day Nasrallah will accept the "International Trial Court" and will accept to have Embassies between us and Syria, and when he'll put his relationship with Ahmady Najjad and Bashar not on ther Lebanese Interest, will be the day I'll probably stand him.
Till now, he chose to put the gov down, 14march chose to support our gov.
We'll see If he'll manage to put our Prime minister Sanyoura down.
That's exactly what I was talking about. If I don't want Palestinians in my land that does not mean I don't sympathise with them. I know how they were treated in my own country. I know how when someone says bandora instead of banadoura they were not sold tomatoes. I know all these, by rage comes from the PLO and their plans to use my country as an armed base to liberate Palestine. Why did they wait until they ran away to start this rage? This is totally unacceptable
I don't believe in a zionist project. They might not be angels on earth but they are not as evil as Arabs make them to be.
I am not talking about US occupation, what is happening in Iraq might happen in Syria. It is not something pleasant, I admit but as I said, I am fed up Syrian regime, I am fed up Syrian bloodshed of Lebanese thought. I want the Lebanese prisoners out of the Syrian jails, those that Hezballa don't care about.
I don't believe in a zionist project. They might not be angels on earth but they are not as evil as Arabs make them to be.
I am not talking about US occupation, what is happening in Iraq might happen in Syria. It is not something pleasant, I admit but as I said, I am fed up Syrian regime, I am fed up Syrian bloodshed of Lebanese thought. I want the Lebanese prisoners out of the Syrian jails, those that Hezballa don't care about.
azurri7
man.. your living in the wrong place... at the wrong time..
jerusalem has long been a stage of wars... its a very volatile region of the world
better get used to it .. cuz no matter how many ppl like you there are.. there'll always be the odd one out.. who isnt happy with this life and believes that if he fights/dies fighting israel in the name of liberating the land and liberating muslims there he'd die a martyr...
thats a fact i guess... whether we like it or not ...
only question is ... do you want to keep on living there? regardless of the situation? or would u rather go and live in the states or any other country like so many palestinians/lebanese
man.. your living in the wrong place... at the wrong time..
jerusalem has long been a stage of wars... its a very volatile region of the world
better get used to it .. cuz no matter how many ppl like you there are.. there'll always be the odd one out.. who isnt happy with this life and believes that if he fights/dies fighting israel in the name of liberating the land and liberating muslims there he'd die a martyr...
thats a fact i guess... whether we like it or not ...
only question is ... do you want to keep on living there? regardless of the situation? or would u rather go and live in the states or any other country like so many palestinians/lebanese