The Lebanese political crisis!!! (10 Viewers)

Do0oDz

New Member
Oct 19, 2006
21
Jacques said:
I am not a Pro Israel if I want to make a peace treaty with them. There's a big difference. Then if they kill to get their land, they are killing to get their land. Other countries are already controlling MY land and I am fed up with it.
So u prefer Israel to take over UR country ? ... Funny :) .. I can't wait to c that happening and c where would Lebanon be when that happens'.. U tell me where do u c Lebanon if they make a peace agreement with Israel ? ...
 

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JCK

JCK

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JCK
May 11, 2004
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  • Thread Starter #102
    Rhizoid said:
    The purpose of this post is not to rebuttle or argue about who's right and wrong, just an assessment of Lebanese society and situation so far - and to put things into perspective for the foreigners here before the shout Jewish, Islamist, or American Conspiracy.......

    Lebanon's 1975-1991 civil war was based on a sectarian domination. In the mid to late 1970s (and possibly early 80s) there was the famous habit of Sectarian identity killings, whereby a military check point would ask the driver to reveal his identity papers and either kill him (and the passengers too) if he was of the "wrong" sect.

    This was done by all sides. I don't know who started it...some say it was the Palestinians who started the trend, and the rest of the militia's followed suit. The first incident happened in 1974 (before the war) when a man refused to stop at the check point and was machine gunned immediately afterward.

    The war went thru 3 or 4 phases, and each phase brought with it political parties, elite individuals and personalities who all eventually were granted a "pardon" under the Taif accords (although there is no mention of this pardon in the actual document).

    That was in 1991.....everyone had their own space, and people minded their own business....probably the last scuffles or shootouts happened in 1992 (some history books will say the war ended then). South Lebanon was still at war though, since it was occupied by Israel. The rest of it was indirectly occupied by Syria. All our administrative decisions, laws, policies etc...had to be "Syria-friendly" in order for them to be implemented.

    * * *

    Fast forward to 2006. Lebanon had prospered thru-out the 1990s in terms of regaining stability, and for it to become a tourist hot-spot in the summer for people to enjoy the beaches (and the hot chicks that lay there :toast: ) and in the winter for various Europeans who enjoyed the wonderful skiing season. :cool: (I bumped into a Belgian skiier while going up on the ski-lift, and he told me that the facilities we had were beyond his expectations :touched: )

    Right...back on topic. I've spared you thru ALOT (and believe me when I say ALOT 1991-2006) of details since that time........[EDIT] but instead of writing a huge column full of details just to explain this very simple point, I'd never finish. So here it is:

    Lebanon has changed the type of rivalry it had since the 1970s (and even 1960s, the Palestinian cause, and the breakdown of the state). The mid 2000s have given birth to a new mindset of people who have overcome shallow and racist sectarianism, yet have been divided over political ideology.

    Now you have two sets of Christians, both Maronite (eastern Catholics) who are divided from within and have different political ideologies for what they believe is for a better Lebanon.

    The same applies for each and every other Sect - Sunni Muslim, Shi'a Muslim, and the Druze. (and the Armenian, and the Orthodox as well)

    We no longer have identity killings as we did before...it's just become a huge mess now, with limitless political bickering in public and on national TV.

    Some might say, well isn't this more politically "healthy" for a country? Isn't the USA like that, supposedly the world's "exemplary archetype" of a democracy where the people have the freedom to choose what they believe in the right to excercise those beliefs?

    Just curious by what the other Lebanese here think about this? (not being sarcastic here -people who know me tend to suspect me of that- this is supposed to be an objective post whereby I'm merely writing my own observation on our society)
    You summed it up pretty well I have to say and I am glad you didn't mention the ugly details, especially of the latest war that led to Taef agreement.

    I always wanted to get rid of the religious seats in the government (this might confuse people here, I will explain in a footnote -1) and change the country into political regimes. The country is ready and the thought and high level of intellect we have is eager to do that. Hariri's economic boost was nothing but a red carpet for political ideologies where many parties fought, especially Aoun who wants the religious seatings so he can get what he actually wants. Same thing goes for Geagea and the Lebanese Forces who also want that knowing they are from the Maronites mostly; not to forget they are Christian extrimists.

    Who opposes this also? Yes, Hezballa who are also religious extrimists where politics, economics and theories are things they don't believe in.

    So to answer your question, the direction Hariri led the country to was the "healthier" direction had it been allowed to go there but these groups and they are powerful have opposed it in many ways and the current chaos happened.

    Syria as well has a hand in this chaos, well simply because they benefit from it ;)

    1- Religious seatings in Lebanon were assigned during the French colonization when France wanted to "improve" the state Lebanon was in and get rid of its Principal. They stated that each position in the government has to be of a certain religious sect. When the declaration of independance was written, these assignments stayed as they are and caused us lots of trouble between 1975 and 1991.
     
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    JCK

    JCK

    Biased
    JCK
    May 11, 2004
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  • Thread Starter #103
    Do0oDz said:
    So u prefer Israel to take over UR country ? ... Funny :) .. I can't wait to c that happening and c where would Lebanon be when that happens'.. U tell me where do u c Lebanon if they make a peace agreement with Israel ? ...
    You are funny to think I prefer Israel to take over my country. I advice you to go read my posts instead of fart some questions out of the blues.
     
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    JCK

    JCK

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  • Thread Starter #104
    ahmad193 said:
    like it or not.. they ARE lebanese.

    and it seems like lebanon hasnt had a proper government in a LONG TIME.

    this is what happens when a country isnt managed properly.

    this isnt just hezbollahs fault... its lebanons fault.
    Lebanon has not been managed properly because this is what Syria has been doing. Thank you for telling me the obvious.
     

    Azzurri7

    Pinturicchio
    Moderator
    Dec 16, 2003
    72,692
    Do0oDz said:
    So u prefer Israel to take over UR country ? ... Funny :) .. I can't wait to c that happening and c where would Lebanon be when that happens'.. U tell me where do u c Lebanon if they make a peace agreement with Israel ? ...
    Are you even reading, or you just trying to argue?

    I do see Lebanon Improving alot by making peace agreement, I'd make peace agreement with syria aswell, but I repeat only when Bashar's regime is over.
     
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    JCK

    JCK

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  • Thread Starter #106
    Azzurri7 said:
    Are you even reading, or you just trying to argue?

    I do see Lebanon Improving alot by making peace agreement, I'd make peace agreement with syria aswell, but I repeat only when Bashar's regime is over.
    It beats me how he concluded that we want Israel to take our company by straightening out the relationships with them.
     

    Zé Tahir

    JhoolayLaaaal!
    Moderator
    Dec 10, 2004
    29,281
    Have any of you though of improving your country without turning to the West for help? To perhaps encourage a change in the Arab world, because the money is there, that's not an issue, so why continue to kiss the arse of the West?
     
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  • Thread Starter #108
    Zé Tahir said:
    Have any of you though of improving your country without turning to the West for help? To perhaps encourage a change in the Arab world, because the money is there, that's not an issue, so why continue to kiss the arse of the West?
    Good luck with that with the current Arab leaders :D
     

    Azzurri7

    Pinturicchio
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    Dec 16, 2003
    72,692
    Dealing with Arabs?? thats funny.

    Civil war started in Lebanon because of some of these countries we already mentioned. You don't want us to fall in the same Trap tahir.
     

    swag

    L'autista
    Administrator
    Sep 23, 2003
    83,510
    Jacques said:
    Good luck with that with the current Arab leaders :D
    It's a basic human phenomenon to preserve those alliances that are lining your pockets. They're just acting in a classic form of human nature.

    Bolder leadership, however, would find a way to convert that influx of Western money into more diverse investments for the economic future. The great tragedy is that there are individuals profiting from a strategy with a finite end -- that a lot of Western oil money is begetting only more Western oil money, and when that's due to dry out there's little left to show for it in the future.
     

    Do0oDz

    New Member
    Oct 19, 2006
    21
    Azzurri7 said:
    Are you even reading, or you just trying to argue?

    I do see Lebanon Improving alot by making peace agreement, I'd make peace agreement with syria aswell, but I repeat only when Bashar's regime is over.

    No seriously .. what would u benefit from having a peace agreement with Israel? would u be sure that the war would stop if that happens? and how do u c it improving :S ?
    .. That's what I understood from the threads u guys have posted .. That u would prefer to set a peace agreement with Israel ..I'm not really arguing I'd like to understand ur point that's all ..
     
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  • Thread Starter #112
    Do0oDz said:
    No seriously .. what would u benefit from having a peace agreement with Israel? would u be sure that the war would stop if that happens? and how do u c it improving :S ?
    .. That's what I understood from the threads u guys have posted .. That u would prefer to set a peace agreement with Israel ..I'm not really arguing I'd like to understand ur point that's all ..
    Let me ask you a simple question, do you prefer war or peace?
     

    Do0oDz

    New Member
    Oct 19, 2006
    21
    Jacques said:
    It beats me how he concluded that we want Israel to take our company by straightening out the relationships with them.

    How can u be sure that once u set a peace agreement with them .. they wont try to take over ur country .. u trust them ?
     
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    swag said:
    It's a basic human phenomenon to preserve those alliances that are lining your pockets. They're just acting in a classic form of human nature.

    Bolder leadership, however, would find a way to convert that influx of Western money into more diverse investments for the economic future. The great tragedy is that there are individuals profiting from a strategy with a finite end -- that a lot of Western oil money is begetting only more Western oil money, and when that's due to dry out there's little left to show for it in the future.
    Lebanon has no oil by the way, we barely have natural resources, our resources lie in us, the people.
     

    GordoDeCentral

    Diez
    Moderator
    Apr 14, 2005
    69,442
    Jacques said:
    I think it is sad actually.

    What I find more sad is Altair who no one knows where he is from but knows the best for Lebanon, always.


    I wish i did, i simply commented on the video which fails to prove anything; and the fact that discontent amongst people in lebanon is for a reason that cannot simply be discounted as unpatriotic. It is pretty obvious that the Taif accord is obsolete, with the make-up of the population changing combined with the role ex-pats are to take on in future governments. And i'll leave it at that.
     
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  • Thread Starter #116
    Do0oDz said:
    How can u be sure that once u set a peace agreement with them .. they wont try to take over ur country .. u trust them ?
    Why not let me ask you a question

    You are Saudi

    Is Saudi Arabia at war with Israel? No
    Is Saudi Arabia in a peace treaty with Israel? No
    Is Saudi Arabia happy with a peace treaty between Israel and Lebanon? No
    Is Saudi Arabia happy with war between Israel and Lebanon? Yes

    Can you explain that to me?
     

    Falafel

    Shawarma
    Jul 23, 2006
    4,300
    Jacques said:
    Why not let me ask you a question

    You are Saudi

    Is Saudi Arabia at war with Israel? No
    Is Saudi Arabia in a peace treaty with Israel? No
    Is Saudi Arabia happy with a peace treaty between Israel and Lebanon? No
    Is Saudi Arabia happy with war between Israel and Lebanon? Yes

    Can you explain that to me?
    that rule doesn't apply to most arabs
     

    Do0oDz

    New Member
    Oct 19, 2006
    21
    Jacques said:
    Why not let me ask you a question

    You are Saudi

    Is Saudi Arabia at war with Israel? No
    Is Saudi Arabia in a peace treaty with Israel? No
    Is Saudi Arabia happy with a peace treaty between Israel and Lebanon? No
    Is Saudi Arabia happy with war between Israel and Lebanon? Yes

    Can you explain that to me?
    did I say that Saudi Arabia or I .. It's my point of view after all .. so I didn't say and I never said that I'm happy with the war between Israel in Lebanon ..
    I just can't see how u can ever trust them !? They would take advantage of it and take over all Lebanon .. and I would definitely hate to see that happening to Lebanon ..
     

    Azzurri7

    Pinturicchio
    Moderator
    Dec 16, 2003
    72,692
    Hezbollah Tv Channel (Manar) is the worst I've ever seen. The way they lie on people, the way they point their fingers on some politican is just lame. As If they're inoccent with no rockets in their pockets.
     
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  • Thread Starter #120
    Do0oDz said:
    did I say that Saudi Arabia or I .. It's my point of view after all .. so I didn't say and I never said that I'm happy with the war between Israel in Lebanon ..
    I just can't see how u can ever trust them !? They would take advantage of it and take over all Lebanon .. and I would definitely hate to see that happening to Lebanon ..
    Why are you so sure that a peace treaty would result in them taking over Lebanon?
     

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