The Lebanese political crisis!!! (11 Viewers)

[Layce Erayce]

TBH, I wouldn't mind that, Infact I'd love It, though many would now call me a traitor, but thats the only way to see Lebanon rising from their econimical situation and many other things.

Just take a look at Jordan and Egypt, they're financially supported by Israel, not to also mention that nor Syria or Iran can ever mess around with the likes of these countries due to their relationship with Israel.

I'm 100% with the peace agreement with Israel, not from economical view only, but also to rebuild a relation between us and them. A relation that can help both countries forget their past and focus on the present and future.

Many now would say, how could you say that when they killed children, women etc etc, my answer is simple, they actually did kill our people few months ago, they also did hit our building where I was living, but thats thanks to Hezbollah. Another thing is that why shouldn't we make peace agreement? hell, France and Germany were more than enemies during World War, take a look at them now.

I wouldn't also mind peace agreement with Syria, but thats only when Bashar and his CO will be brought down, just like Saddam.

You know, that is so amazing to hear, Im speechless. Assuming your from Lebanese, I have never heard of someone with this view before.

It's a very bold stance to take. Many dont want to take this stance, even if they believe it is true, only because they cannot imagine life ostracised and isolated from their community.



I hope more people are bold like you.

 

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[Rami]

Bah, didnt gor through all this thread, but what is Lebnon? What is Egypt? What is Saudi Arabia? What is Iraq? To me they are all imaginary lines devised courtesy of our British and French friends.....

 

[Il Re]

Bah, didnt gor through all this thread, but what is Lebnon? What is Egypt? What is Saudi Arabia? What is Iraq? To me they are all imaginary lines devised courtesy of our British and French friends.....

hmmm, very intresting view, couldn't you say the same about many african countries?

 

[Martin]

Bah, didnt gor through all this thread, but what is Lebnon? What is Egypt? What is Saudi Arabia? What is Iraq? To me they are all imaginary lines devised courtesy of our British and French friends.....

Are you saying there's no real different between Egyptians and Saudis? That they are essentially one nation?

 

[swag]

Tough question, Martin. I'm curious to hear what Rami, and others, think about that. On the one extreme, you get supporters of the idea of a unified/pan-Arab state -- whether that's under Saladin exhumed or otherwise. But you only have to look at Iraq right now to see that the prospects for that can perhaps be no better than just a unified Yugoslavia for that matter.

On the one hand, the notion that the political divisions of much of the Arab world are just a construct of external French and British colonial forces rings true from a historical context. But then I think about how many countries did not have their political borders set by external forces in some way, and it no longer seems that exceptional.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

This whole thread is ridiculous, starting with the video itself and beethoven for dramatic effect is just hilarious. Southern lebanese are just as lebanese as the northern ones- At least they live in the country all year around (think beirut's mayor). When close to a million people stage a sit-in askin their prime minister to resign, something is wrong.

 

[Rhizoid]

Right, I guess the different Lebanese members here, namely Jacques and Azzurri7 have their view points, which by all means, I respect. One must always have to see the other perspective in order to understand the complete situation.

I am in no way shy to say that I am a Hezballah supporter. That doesn’t mean I believe evvverything they’ve done in the past has been spot-on and correct. OTOH, they are a Lebanese party that address the Lebanese people. Their Leader Hassan Nasrallah, openly admits to receiving arms from Syria and Iran in order to protect themselves from the Zionist enemy that occupied a part of our beloved 10452 km2.

How DARE people accuse Hezballah as being non-Lebanese, when it was THEM who fought for our occupied territories. Where were the Christian-led militia the Lebanese Forces when Lebanon was being occupied? Bashir Gemayel was sipping coffee in Jounieh (north of Beirut) with none other than Ariel Sharon.

This same Samir Geagea who in bizarre fashion is embraced by Saad Hariri. Does Saad forget father’s legacy? The massive PR campaigns during the 1990s about Sabra and Chatila massacres, the freedom of Palestine, occupied Lebanon? All that has gone down the drain, just so he can ally with a criminal in Samir Geagea who himself wanted the division of Lebanon, ex-Yugoslavia-style? How do you expect me to trust these guys?

What does Syria want with Israel? Golan Heights. Do you see Hezballah fighters going down there? No.

What does Iran want with Israel? Wiping them off the face of the Earth. Do you see Hezballah launching nukes into Israel?

Another point, I’d like to make – Hezballah have allied themselves with a large group of Christians in Lebanon who support a certain Michel Aoun, who himself fought a Liberation war against Syria in 1989-1990.

You want to tell me all of those Christians would give up their passports for Iran and Syria? Hezballah’s move was an act of friendship and to prove to the Lebanese people that they are addressing all the religions and sects in the country. They want to eliminate corruption in our government.

And Azzurri, as much as I hate Bashar’s regime, but believe me if he is toppled and his tight security is broken down, then Lebanon is f*cked. We’d be welcoming in Zarqawi and Bin Laden’s men with open arms. Just look at Iraq.

Regarding the current demonstrations – I’ll be the first to criticize: Where are the jobless youth b*tching about their poor lifestyle and the nepotism + corrupt beauraucracies? Where are the poor villagers crying out about how they sleep hungry every night? Why aren’t they calling for a revolution and listing their reasons for this?

They all went down JUST because Hassan Nasralla told them too. Unfortunately, this is the case for most of these people, but on the other hand you have the Aounists who have a detailed political agenda that addresses such issues. I wish we could see a more powerful and emotional opposition movement such as Ukraine’s Yuschenko, or the guy opposing Hugo Chavez in Venezuela (his name slips me for the moment!)

I trust Hezballah, and Hassan Nasralla because he is a man of his word, and does what he says. He has nothing to hide. I am very disappointed at the Christians of Lebanon who cheer for an idiot and criminal like Samir Geagea. There are much MUCH more competent Christian leaders than him. 3ayb…(shame)

 

[Rhizoid]

And they say Hezballah supporters are blind...fine, but it seems you too are blinded by your own propaganda.

Please, quit spreading BS propaganda, and speak the truth. Before Feb 14 2005, Future TV used to hail the Islamic Resistance as Lebanese heros. It seems common for March14 supporters to forget.

-Keep taking orders from Iran and Syria

Hezballah act independently.

-Lie to his community and people

Right, so the orphan homes and hospitals are all lies just to gain support. That benefits Syria and Iran, right? Liberating occupied Lebanon was also a lie, right? Hassan NAsralla repeatedly saying he doesnt want a Khomeinist regime, thus extending his hand for Christian support. Those are all lies? 3ayb, habibi, 3ayb hal 7akeh. Please, go look up facts before you mislead people on this forum.

-Putting Israel in the middle always

Right, because Israel luuuuvs Lebanon and the Lebanese. They love us sooo much they just bombed the living sh*t out of it. Listen, why did they bomb the bridge near Adma which is a 100% Christian area? Hezballah guerrilla's hiding in the Casino du Liban?

-Destroying Lebanon

Ummm...ok, see they have all these weapons, and guerilla fighters...hell why don't they just takeover 1979 Khomeini-style? What are they waiting for?

-Kidnapping hostages whenever he wants without taking permission from the gov

Aha...but Lebanese hostages in Israel don't count?

-Making war whenever he's not in a good mood

Right, I won't even bother to answer that, because it seemed you had run out of points to come up with. Extremely pathetic.

-Never ask about the Lebanese in syrian prisons

The ones in Syria, fine...that is a criticism I will concede to. But Syria is their ally for now, it could be on a future agenda, maybe with LFPM.

-Recieving money from Iran, money they call "Clean money"

Arms which protected us against the supposedly "undefeatable" Israeli Defense Force.

-Recieving weapons from Syria

They're on our border. Lebanese Forces recieved weapons from Israel and committed Sabra and Chatila and other such horrors.

and so on.

bas hol hinne? Whatever dude, March 14 2005 kicked off beautifully on that day...after that, you lot have become a joke and lost all credibility in my eyes.

 

[Rhizoid]

They might be Lebanese on paper, but that counts for nothing.

I can't believe what you're saying!!

Those Lebanese who were occupied in the South, count for nothing? Those Lebanese who's brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers died during the July war, yet still hail Hassan Nasralla as a hero, count for nothing????

Go ally with Israel dude, they will back stab you before you can say Shalom.

 

[ReBeL]

This whole thread is ridiculous, starting with the video itself and beethoven for dramatic effect is just hilarious. Southern lebanese are just as lebanese as the northern ones- At least they live in the country all year around (think beirut's mayor). When close to a million people stage a sit-in askin their prime minister to resign, something is wrong.

Right, I guess the different Lebanese members here, namely Jacques and Azzurri7 have their view points, which by all means, I respect. One must always have to see the other perspective in order to understand the complete situation.

I am in no way shy to say that I am a Hezballah supporter. That doesn’t mean I believe evvverything they’ve done in the past has been spot-on and correct. OTOH, they are a Lebanese party that address the Lebanese people. Their Leader Hassan Nasrallah, openly admits to receiving arms from Syria and Iran in order to protect themselves from the Zionist enemy that occupied a part of our beloved 10452 km2.

How DARE people accuse Hezballah as being non-Lebanese, when it was THEM who fought for our occupied territories. Where were the Christian-led militia the Lebanese Forces when Lebanon was being occupied? Bashir Gemayel was sipping coffee in Jounieh (north of Beirut) with none other than Ariel Sharon.

This same Samir Geagea who in bizarre fashion is embraced by Saad Hariri. Does Saad forget father’s legacy? The massive PR campaigns during the 1990s about Sabra and Chatila massacres, the freedom of Palestine, occupied Lebanon? All that has gone down the drain, just so he can ally with a criminal in Samir Geagea who himself wanted the division of Lebanon, ex-Yugoslavia-style? How do you expect me to trust these guys?

What does Syria want with Israel? Golan Heights. Do you see Hezballah fighters going down there? No.

What does Iran want with Israel? Wiping them off the face of the Earth. Do you see Hezballah launching nukes into Israel?

Another point, I’d like to make – Hezballah have allied themselves with a large group of Christians in Lebanon who support a certain Michel Aoun, who himself fought a Liberation war against Syria in 1989-1990.

You want to tell me all of those Christians would give up their passports for Iran and Syria? Hezballah’s move was an act of friendship and to prove to the Lebanese people that they are addressing all the religions and sects in the country. They want to eliminate corruption in our government.

And Azzurri, as much as I hate Bashar’s regime, but believe me if he is toppled and his tight security is broken down, then Lebanon is f*cked. We’d be welcoming in Zarqawi and Bin Laden’s men with open arms. Just look at Iraq.

Regarding the current demonstrations – I’ll be the first to criticize: Where are the jobless youth b*tching about their poor lifestyle and the nepotism + corrupt beauraucracies? Where are the poor villagers crying out about how they sleep hungry every night? Why aren’t they calling for a revolution and listing their reasons for this?

They all went down JUST because Hassan Nasralla told them too. Unfortunately, this is the case for most of these people, but on the other hand you have the Aounists who have a detailed political agenda that addresses such issues. I wish we could see a more powerful and emotional opposition movement such as Ukraine’s Yuschenko, or the guy opposing Hugo Chavez in Venezuela (his name slips me for the moment!)

I trust Hezballah, and Hassan Nasralla because he is a man of his word, and does what he says. He has nothing to hide. I am very disappointed at the Christians of Lebanon who cheer for an idiot and criminal like Samir Geagea. There are much MUCH more competent Christian leaders than him. 3ayb…(shame)

Those are nothing but perfect posts....:thumbs:

 

[ReBeL]

TBH, I wouldn't mind that, Infact I'd love It, though many would now call me a traitor, but thats the only way to see Lebanon rising from their econimical situation and many other things.

Just take a look at Jordan and Egypt, they're financially supported by Israel, not to also mention that nor Syria or Iran can ever mess around with the likes of these countries due to their relationship with Israel.

I'm 100% with the peace agreement with Israel, not from economical view only, but also to rebuild a relation between us and them. A relation that can help both countries forget their past and focus on the present and future.

Many now would say, how could you say that when they killed children, women etc etc, my answer is simple, they actually did kill our people few months ago, they also did hit our building where I was living, but thats thanks to Hezbollah. Another thing is that why shouldn't we make peace agreement? hell, France and Germany were more than enemies during World War, take a look at them now.

I wouldn't also mind peace agreement with Syria, but thats only when Bashar and his CO will be brought down, just like Saddam.

Sorry, Rab, but I expected much more from you...

About the peace agreements signed by Jordanian & Egyptian governments with Israel, you have to ask those who live in those two countries to tell you that they got nothing out of those BETRAYALS...

I can tell you about Jordan specifically...

Jordanians got nothing of those treaties because the only thing that happened as a result of this treaty is that:

1- Israeli investors have established some factories in Irbid city. Those factories bring clothes from Israel, employ some female workers from China, India & Thailand & send them back to Israel...Please tell me what Jordanian people got out of this except some AIDS cases coming with those female workers to a country that heard about this disease only on the news before the peace treaty...

2- Jordainians can't enter one of the neighbourhoods in Amman (Al-Rabiah) without being humilated and treated like criminals. And you know the reason for that: the Israeli embassy is there...

About the sentence you said about using Israel to protect Jordan & Egypt from both Syria & Iran, well, I couldn't find a description for that but it is like bringing a stranger to your house to scare your kids because they don't behave good...

Finally, there was nothing that justifies making peace with those who still say that they want Palestinians to get Jordan as an alternative homeland...

 

[Bjerknes]

They all went down JUST because Hassan Nasralla told them too. Unfortunately, this is the case for most of these people, but on the other hand you have the Aounists who have a detailed political agenda that addresses such issues. I wish we could see a more powerful and emotional opposition movement such as Ukraine’s Yuschenko, or the guy opposing Hugo Chavez in Venezuela (his name slips me for the moment!)

Manuel Rosales, who unfortunately just lost the election and can do nothing to hault the deterioration of Venezuela.

 

[ReBeL]

How much you are Lebanese if you obey other countries' leaders, not give a toss about your country and do what they did in that video?

Jack, you know that the other parties follow France & USA & their tails in the region...

 

[ReBeL]

Syria's regime is much more dangerous than Israeli one.

 

[ReBeL]

With snakes like Syria and Iran on two sides, it is no wonder that Lebanon is struggling to form a stable political situation. The best thing would be, IMO for Lebanon to form stronger economic and diplomatic ties with Israel to counter the other influences. How ironic.

That was really one of the funniest conclusions anybody can come up with...

 

[Bjerknes]

I understand where Jacques and Rab are coming from here... Hezbollah only continues to provide those other crazies working for the IDF with justification (maybe, although that differentiates between people) for turning Beirut and other parts of Lebanon into a fireworks display. They are simply causing the less radical citizens of Lebanon unnecessary suffering. For instance, I wouldn't consider Timothy McVeigh or Lee Malvo (DC Sniper of 2003) compatriots... I would consider them disgraceful imbeciles who simply want to kill people for some ridiculous goal or ideology. If you're in Rab's or Jacques' situation, you would probably feel the same way about Hezbollah.

 

[ReBeL]

I understand where Jacques and Rab are coming from here... Hezbollah only continues to provide those other crazies working for the IDF with justification for turning Beirut and other parts of Lebanon into a fireworks display. They are simply causing the less radical citizens of Lebanon unnecessary suffering. For instance, I wouldn't consider Timothy McVeigh or Lee Malvo (DC Sniper of 2003) compatriots... I would consider them disgraceful imbeciles who simply want to kill people for some ridiculous goal or ideology. If you're in Rab's or Jacques' situation, you would probably feel the same way about Hezbollah.

Andy, I'm not a Lebanese and I didn't comment on the domestic issues of Lebanon because of that, but denying the others right to be Lebanese just because you have a different opinion with them is just a wrong thing IMO...

Lebanon is known for its very varied group of people, and you can see that in this forum. As rhizoid said, Hezbollah are not an isolated group in Lebanon, at least currently. They are allied with Michelle Oun (Christian), Nabeeh Barri (Shiia), Omar Karami (Sunni), Suleiman Franjeyyeh (Christian) & Talal Arslan (Durzi)...

So, they have something in common with many groups in Lebanon regardless the religion of each fraction...

 

[Bjerknes]

Andy, I'm not a Lebanese and I didn't comment on the domestic issues of Lebanon because of that, but denying the others right to be Lebanese just because you have a different opinion with them is just a wrong thing IMO...

Lebanon is known for its very varied group of people, and you can see that in this forum. As rhizoid said, Hezbollah are not an isolated group in Lebanon, at least currently. They are allied with Michelle Oun (Christian), Nabeeh Barri (Shiia), Omar Karami (Sunni), Suleiman Franjeyyeh (Christian) & Talal Arslan (Durzi)...

So, they have something in common with many groups in Lebanon regardless the religion of each fraction...

Well, I guess you have to ask yourself the question, "what does it mean to be Lebanese?" Do supporters of Hezbollah want what is best for Lebanon, or would they prefer what is best for Hezbollah? Make no mistake, the best for the country of Lebanon does not coincide with what Hassan Nasrallah thinks is best for Hezbollah. In that specific way, Hezbollah supporters are not "Lebanese" when talking about politics.

Although I understand where said Lebanese forum members are coming from, I do realize this is rather subjective matter. But what some sort of paper says is highly meaningless when compared to a mindset.

 

[Falafel]

I can't believe what you're saying!!

Those Lebanese who were occupied in the South, count for nothing? Those Lebanese who's brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers died during the July war, yet still hail Hassan Nasralla as a hero, count for nothing????

Go ally with Israel dude, they will back stab you before you can say Shalom.

int:especially on the last bit

 

[Falafel]

If the Shiites feel better represented by Hezbollah than by the Lebanese government, then the government is not trying hard enough to reach them.

With snakes like Syria and Iran on two sides, it is no wonder that Lebanon is struggling to form a stable political situation. The best thing would be, IMO for Lebanon to form stronger economic and diplomatic ties with Israel to counter the other influences. How ironic.