The end of an era (3 Viewers)

s0ftcore

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2002
568
#41
++ [ originally posted by -Z- ] ++
I am poiting towards a revolution actually.

Ferrara ---> cant give any more
Iuliano ---> cant give any more
Montero ---> cant give any more
Thuram ---> a year or two at most, and is not nowhere near his form last year
Pessotto ---> cant give any more
Conte ---> cant give any more
Camo ---> very very unconsistent
Del Piero ---> overrated
Ferrara, Iuliano, Pessotto, Conte --> haven't played much. used once in a while IMO. I consider them 'fringe players'.

Hence, I think their replacements would prolly be from the Youth team. I don't see why we need to buy players when we can save a lot from promoting the better youth players.

Thuram and DP will soon have to be squad players and no longer immediate names on the first team sheet in the near future, that I agree. But I don't think DP is overrated. You wanna know who's overrated? Trez is overrated.

Why? Because I hear ppl calling him world class and stuff when he's not lethal as strikers like RVN (the comparison is made as they are similiar type of strikers). Trez is a good player, but nowhere near world class.

Camo needs a kick up the arse :devil:
 

Buy on AliExpress.com
Jul 12, 2002
5,666
#42
++ [ originally posted by -Z- ] ++
Midfield:
Like I said, we need tackling, width and flair. IMO the tackling and ball winning part gets lowest priority because we already have Tacchinardi, Appiah and Blasi for that position. But an upgrade is definately possible. We ned to find a natural replacement for Davids, be it Tiago, Muntari or someone else, I dont care.
As far as the fingers are concernet, we need a replacement, and understudy for Camoranesi, someone that has potential and that will in a year or two be better and that can put in consistent performances. Santana would do, but if we are looking for an someone inside the club maybe Gasabaronni could do it.
As far as the left side is concerned, we need a natural left footed player, with solid passing and a great cross. Someone that can play a one two with Zambrotta and combine with him on the left. Also someone that can take corners from the right side. The French Beckham, Rothen.
That takes some balls to say, but I'll back you up 100%. Juventus needs some width, and we've been lacking a left winger for almost five years now. Rothen is one of the best out there and would certainly do well in Italy.
 

Desmond

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
8,938
#44
zlatan,i would actually like to see those changes happening,but trust lippi to come up with something.if that roma match didn't put the message across i don't know what will.
 

desireless

Junior Member
Sep 16, 2003
169
#45
Yes the defeat against Roma is very bitter and leave a bad after taste. we just have to adapt to it (I'm a fan of Barca as well). If the scudetto is not ours this year, we can still try to win CL. Maybe Juve is concentrating on CL all along. But, IMO something still need to be done for the ageing team.

I don't really think that the defense is the only main issue. I think everyone always mentioned this before, our midfield is lacking of depth (quality) as well. The way they play right now, the midfielders should easily change places, roles, and tasks during the match, which are not really showing.

Bringing in more defenders will definitely help the team. But IMO, it will only be a temporary solution. The midfielders are showing the sign of being worn out as well. If the opposing team midfielders can deliver a brilliant pass to the attackers easily, can we really blame the defenders for not doing their job? Or should the defenders mark the opposing midfielders as well?

The tempo and the style of the current Juve is really woring out every players. Here I would say Lippi should be more careful in applying tactics and choosing players for matches (though i always trusted in his judgement). SO, Imho, this is a good reason for regeneration of the team, if the end of era is not now, it will come very soon.

Lippi and Moggi will know best on what to do. Besides there are other factors that we haven't considered, touched, or known, like a crack inside the team, or jealousy among players.
 

Maher

Juventuz addict
Dec 16, 2002
13,521
#46
++ [ originally posted by -Z- ] ++
I know some of you ill tell me that I'm over-reacting, that things are not so bad, etc etc, but hear me out anyway.

I truly believe that this current Juventus team has given us all it has and they cant do any moer. We've fallen and we wont be able to get up. The Juventus era of the last decade or so when we won numerous Serie A titles, won the CL once and lost it three times is over.

I truly believe that we need drastic changes before the next season, not only in terms of bringing in new players but also in terms of changign the players mentality, even if it means bringing in a new coach. And it's not only because of one loss, we have been playing badly all season, and I simply dont believe we can win anything this season. The Scudetto is virtually out of our reach, not only because of the 8 point gap, but also because of our play. I simply dont believe we can beat any of the big teams this season. Milan, Roma, Lazio, Parma, Inter, Deportivo... we are going to have to improve significantly to even have a chance of winning.

In my opinion these are the areas we need to change:

Goalkeeper:
Yes, I believe we need to bring in another quality goalkeeper, possibly someone thats young, but proven nontheless. I'm not saying we need a replacement for Buffon, but we need a new substitute keeper. Someone with enough quality to make Buffon sweat and give his best in training, someone that can even replace Buffon when he's out of form. Competition is a great thing, it makes you try harder in order too keep your place. I dont exactly see Buffon being scared of Chimenti, do you?

Defence:
This should have been delt with sooner. Our defenders are simply too old, too slow, and past it. I pity the team that has to rely on Iuliano, or Montero not to concede. All the flaws of our defence have been cruelly exposed this season, and noone can deny there is a problem. We lack speed and security, and we make enought errors we can export them to third world countries, and still have plenty. Iuliano, Montero and Ferrara are simply too old, and should not be playing at top level anymore. Thuram has also just passed that magic border after which your career goes downhill... We need changes.

Midfield:
There is no midfield. Altho our midfield was ok last year and we are "supposed" to have more quality and depth this season, that simply isnt the case. Our entire midfield, and all of the team for that matter, depends on Nevded. And he's not superman, nore can he keep his form up forever. Tacchinardi and Appiah have been out of form and we're not holding the midfield nor winning balls like we used to. The wingers are practically non existant. We dont even have a left winger, while Camo makes up for one good performance with 10 bad ones. We need to be able to attack on the whole width of the field, and that implies that the wingers will have to take some pressure off the middle of the pitch and off Nedved. We cant expect Zambrotta to do all the work on the left, nor can we expect the inconsistant Camo and defensive minded Thuram to do anything on the rigth. Bot sides need to be imroved. And thats not all, we need a creative midfielder, a real playmaker. Someone thta can organize the play with flair and spark, creativity and vision, technique and class. Nedved, altho he does a great job, doesnt do it exactly that way, and he too is not getting any younger.

Attack:
The attack has actually been the best part of our team, but it's still far from perfect. We have too many forwards and only one tall target man. At least one of the Del Piero, Di Vaio and Miccoli trio should go, and if we get another small forwards, even two. I dont thik it should be Miccoli, so you do the math. We also need to add another big man to our roster, as there are times when Trezeguet will be injured or out of form. We need someone to replace him.

Coach:
Altho Lippi has done great things for us and is without a doubt one of the greatest managers in the world, I believe it's time for a change. We need someone that will bring in a new approach to the game, someone that will be prepared to experiment more and to take more risks. Someone young and hungry for titles, someone that will be able to motivate the guys again.




Possible solutions:
Goalkeeper: I'm not quite sure who is available, has quality and would be prepared to sit on the bench. Landrau maybe? He would be certanly be an upgrade from Chimenti

Defence: Altho we need to rejuvenate our defense, I believe we still need to have some experience in it, someone to guide our young guns to stardom.
IMO Stam fits the bill perfectly, he's tall, strong and has definite class. He's 31 and has at least two more years of top class football in him. A great partner in him would IMO be Lucio. He's 25, he's tall, stronga, and has an excellent header. He has some pace too, and IMO the defensive pairing of Stam and Lucio would be the best in Italy, if not the world. Legrotagglie and Tudor would sit on the bench, and another defender would be requiered too, someone to lear at first and later replace Stam. Someone like Gonzalo Rodriguez, or Mexes, or Ferrari...
For the right back position we need someone that can both defend and and attack, and someone that's young. Altho Trabelsi is a good player, he would not be my first choice. IMO Hinkel would be great, he's younger than Trabelsi and is and EU player. I believe that after a year of playing under Thuram he would be ready for top class Europan football and a starting place in Juventus. A replacement for zambrotta wouldnt be bad either, someone like Evra.

Midfield:
Like I said, we need tackling, width and flair. IMO the tackling and ball winning part gets lowest priority because we already have Tacchinardi, Appiah and Blasi for that position. But an upgrade is definately possible. We ned to find a natural replacement for Davids, be it Tiago, Muntari or someone else, I dont care.
As far as the fingers are concernet, we need a replacement, and understudy for Camoranesi, someone that has potential and that will in a year or two be better and that can put in consistent performances. Santana would do, but if we are looking for an someone inside the club maybe Gasabaronni could do it.
As far as the left side is concerned, we need a natural left footed player, with solid passing and a great cross. Someone that can play a one two with Zambrotta and combine with him on the left. Also someone that can take corners from the right side. The French Beckham, Rothen.
As far as the playmaker position is concerned, the best and most realistic option is Rosicky, altho someone of the Diego or Aimar type woučdnt be bad. But IMO ROsicky would be more than enought, and if we're buying from Germany Stuttgart's Hleb has some serious skills.

Attack:
Like I already said, we have a good attack but it could be better. We need a replacement for Trezeguet, and IMO Zlatan would be up to the job. he could do Treze's job (he is Ajax' best scorer this season with some 23 goals I believe), and he would add something new, some flair, better technique and someone that can create chances for others better than Trezeguet. Cavenaghi would be a good replacement too, but he's second on my list.
IMO, Miccoli needs to stay with us, while Di Vaio and Del Piero are not that neccessary. Di Vaio could leave in order to create room for anoter forward, Saviola maybe, while we could get some money for our other transfer operations by selling Del Piero. Zalayeta IMO is more than good enough to be a 5th striker for us, and him and Benjamin should gve us more than enough cover if someone gets injured.


Coach:
Deschamps. Who better to create a new Juventus than a player who has won it all with the old Juventus. He's proven he can get the results with Monaco, and his youth and hunger for trophies could be an invaluable asset.


I know some of you will not agree about such drastic measures, but I believe it's time for them and that they will make us even stronger than ever.

I AGREE TOTALLY,WELL DONE :thumb:
 

mate

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2002
1,685
#47
++ [ originally posted by -Z- ] ++
I am poiting towards a revolution actually.

Ferrara ---> cant give any more
Iuliano ---> cant give any more
Montero ---> cant give any more
Thuram ---> a year or two at most, and is not nowhere near his form last year
Pessotto ---> cant give any more
Conte ---> cant give any more
Camo ---> very very unconsistent
Del Piero ---> overrated
I agree, excluding maybe 4 Thuram who is not like last year but still one of the bests in his role. And I will add also players like Tudor, Tacchianrdi, Legrottaglie, Birindelli they can be good but they are not world class.
And also Lippi is mortifing ouers youngister like Miccoli and Maresca, leaving tham too often in the bench. Now it's their turn! Lippi be brave and trust tham! a good coach is who is able to to give value to young players and he is "killing" tham :fero:
 
Aug 1, 2003
17,696
#48
okay, I respect what all you're trying to say, Zlatan, but to go to even CHANGING the coach is a bit extreme. Lippi is a genius. Maybe he's lost his touch, but till the season ends no one knows. He's won more titles than do us shame over the years. Players respect him. He's a great coach. And until that is proven wrong, I don't think we should bring anyone else in. And if you talk about experimenting and a new approach, wth do you think are we doing this year?

Del Piero unnecessary? I understand you are not a great fan of him, but others including myself thinks that DP actually has done more good and harm. Players like that should never be sold for the likes of cavenaghi or whoever. You hardly find loyal players nowadays.

Thats all I disagree with... with all due respect :)
 

s0ftcore

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2002
568
#49
++ [ originally posted by mate ] ++


I agree, excluding maybe 4 Thuram who is not like last year but still one of the bests in his role. And I will add also players like Tudor, Tacchianrdi, Legrottaglie, Birindelli they can be good but they are not world class.
And also Lippi is mortifing ouers youngister like Miccoli and Maresca, leaving tham too often in the bench. Now it's their turn! Lippi be brave and trust tham! a good coach is who is able to to give value to young players and he is "killing" tham :fero:
Speaking of world class... let's see who is a world class player at Juve, or who actually might make it waaaaaay up there. ;)

Buffon.

Thuram, but I don't think he's gonna last.

Zambrotta. How can he not be world class?

Nedved. A bit off form nowadays though.

DP. Probably be remembered as a reputational figure then world class player, but I think on his day, he's way up there with the great names.

---

Now to the peeps who COULD be world class:

Miccoli. I just have a gut feeling he's gonna be big.

DV if he gets to play more.

Maresca. We gotta trust him. I think he could be the 'kaiser' of our midfield if he nails a first team spot. Probably would find himself starting for the NT if he actually lives up to my expectations.



I guess we need a world class figure in defence. A club with the reputation of Juve can easily attract a big name. :cap:
 

#10

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2002
7,330
#50
Enzo will be class, he jus need to be more mobile on the pitch to dictate the game.

The old guard are the problem, there is always a need for experienced players, but we are taking the piss really.
 
OP

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,049
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #51
    Sally, I too like Lippi, but the fact is that he will be most certanly leaving anyway, after this year or in 2005 as he's the most likely candidate to replace Trap. So, what I mean is that we that we should buy players and a new coach at the same time, so that the new players dont have to adjust from Lippi's stryle to the new coach's. I believe someone said this before, Ian I think.
     

    gray

    Senior Member
    Moderator
    Apr 22, 2003
    30,260
    #52
    ++ [ originally posted by s0ftcore ] ++

    A club with the reputation of Juve can easily attract a big name. :cap:
    Not with a tightass fiscal policy like ours though :groan::lazy:
     

    baggio

    Senior Member
    Jun 3, 2003
    19,250
    #55
    Personally, i think we shud hold on to Lippi as long as possible. Hes even made clear, he has no intention of taking over from trap after Euro. Which means the next coach, whoever he is, will be working on the azzuri till the world cup. So i can definitely see Lippi extend his stay at Juve.
     
    Aug 1, 2003
    17,696
    #57
    Oh I see, I misunderstood then.

    But Zlatan, if Lippi isn't leaving yet wouldn't it be better if we just spend on 3 or less players first, then only buy others to totally 'revolutionize' our team? I hope you're not suggesting us buying everyone at one go
     
    OP

    Zlatan

    Senior Member
    Jun 9, 2003
    23,049
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #60
    ++ [ originally posted by Lilianna ] ++


    u puno stvarima si dosta u pravu ali,molim te....
    nemoj toliko strogo da gledas sve.....

    i ne razumem kako mozes da gledas taj avatar....
    kako te ne boli?
    Ne boli me uopste. Bilo je posteno, bili su bolji i pobijedili. Smetalo bi mi da su bili losiji od nas a ipak pobijedili.Nekada mores da iskljucis osjecaje ;)
     

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