The end of an era (2 Viewers)

KB824 · Feb 9, 2004

Somebody PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me why everyone is on Maresca's Dikk.

WTF has he done?!?!?!

What, he's played well in Coppa Italia and meaningless CL matches. Well, great for him.

Cassano, who is 2 years younger, is 10 times the player that maresca will ever hope to be.

please, seriously, someone tell me what they see in this kid, that makes everyone think that he is the crown jewel to the future of juventus.

Lawnchair Bes · Feb 9, 2004

i truly believe on the saying "What doesnt kill u only makes u stronger" history has proven that and i dont mean only in soccer. now the question is "Did Juve die today against Roma?"

KB824 · Feb 9, 2004

That all depends on whether you think Milan is capable of collapsing in the next few months.

i don't see it happening. Milan is a better squad than the team that won the CL last year.

kaizer · Feb 9, 2004

who sed maresca is better than cassano....?

cassano, altho the pr*ck that he is, is far better than enzo is, sad to say.

s0ftcore · Feb 9, 2004

How is he able to find his form unless he plays? I don't think benching Legro would help. He was bought as a replacement, and the solution would be to stop playing him aside Montero, but beside his new partner, so they would take time to gel.

Tudor, anyone?

I agree with you that our midfield isn't as good as we think it is. Last season midfield was good because we had the industrious Davids. I don't see Appiah as the new Davids so we have to change our midfield around.

Tach: I never really rated him. I just can't see what's soooooo good about him. I also agree with -Z- that Enzo should play ahead of him. And I mean give him a good run in the squad. A few Coppa Italia and useless CL games won't squeeze the best outta him.

Regarding the creativity in our midfield, I don't think it was ever creative. Look at Nedved. He doesn't really ooze creativity. He's a friggin dynamo. Our midfield is supposedly based on powerful and hardworking players, and we decided to let Davids go

Camo is inconsistent and I think he wouldn't be needed for a 4-1-2-1-2 midfield as I feel 3 centre mids would be better. Sure, we lose out on the creativity section; but just give Maresca 2 players who will run and pick up the loose pieces for him, and he can play as a withdrawn DM whilst we have Nedved storming from the left to right swinging in the crosses. It's kinda based on Milan's formation, but I always admired Pirlo's new role, and I also think it would fit Maresca.

I think we have a lotta depth in our strike force. We have DV and Miccoli sitting on the bench FFS. It could be better, and who do you suggest sits on the bench then? I'm happy with what I got, and you can't rely on them to score if the midfield doesn't provide services, man.

---

A 4-0 loss to Roma, it's not the end of the road guys. But it's definitely a kneejerk reaction, and that's exactly what Juve need as the CL looms ahead.

Maybe I'm more used to losing as I'm a Newcastle fan too

gray · Feb 9, 2004

That's a good point softcore, maybe we need to be woken up from our dreamworld before the restart of the Champions League

kaizer · Feb 9, 2004

i definately think we need someone with the stature of davids in the middle. face it, appiah is not really getting the job done....tacchi cant do it alone and conte is no spring chicken no more.

desireless · Feb 9, 2004

HI everyone, bad day for all of us. For this thread I have to agree with -Z- though. I guess what -Z- is trying to say, that we need to regenerate the team. It doesn'e mean that the current team is totally finished, but they are going to be soon.

The players aren't getting younger every day, and fresh ideas need to be introduced to the team. I always believe a good football team, is the one that regenerates and incoporates new ideas, or players to the team. For both need not to be in highest standard, but enough to bring freshness to the team. Yes, we have maresca, appiah, and legro, miccoli, Zambro, and others, but their contribution in the first team is not that much.

The current team are strong, indeed they are. They reached Scudetto years after years, CL league regulars. When everyone were in doubt with Italian football, Juve was one the team that proved, "yeah we still can do this".

But mark their own words. Juve wants to change their concept of football, to a more attacking and fast paced football, so conceding more goals is just a minor consequences that the team has to take. But lets look at the statistic. Inter GS=35, GA=15, Roma GS=41, GA=9, Milan GS=39, GA=10, Juve GS=42, GA=25.

This doesn't prove that they play more attacking football after all. Other teams are roughly achieving the same results. So again, we are not talking about whether we want to be the winner all the time. I realize that there is a time to lose and a time to win. I guess everyone realize that as well, but IMHO, yeah I think the team needs to be regenerated.

Forza Juve

Vinman · Feb 9, 2004

-Z- is right, we are going nowhere this season, except down....................

Majed · Feb 9, 2004

but serioulsy, you have to agree with some of his points (not all of course

)

common Z, dont overreact. Remember the year we got 7th place in serie A, then the next we got 2nd place but crashed out of othe UEFA cup losing 4-0 to Celta Vigo!!! They year after that we also got 2nd place in serie A, but we didn't to shit in the CL losing to Hamburg and Pana! well, two years later, we're back to back winner of the serie A, we're CL Finalists, and we won the Supercoppa italiana.

many of the things you mentioned are true, but i think it shouldn't be anywhere near drastic as you've mentioned. I'm glad we got a beating from Roma because it'll show Moggi that we really do need defenders. Moggi is not gonna let this happen next season!

For the GK: Chimenti can last a couple more years. Rampulla went on till he was kicking 40's door down. We dont want another case where we buy a young keeper and let him rot like Carini. This area of the field is our least priorotu for at least 2 seasons.

Defence:
I agree with most of what you said except for the Stam part. Thuram and Co can still guide these youngsters. Defense is the most delicate area of the field. if one of the 4 players is crap, the whole thing would collapes. that's what's going on now. (ok maybe 2 players suck).
Zambrotta is doning fine enough. here would be my changes:
Out: Ferrara, Iuliano, Montero, Pessotto. This is where the old juve has to make room for the new. Juve needs to start another generation.
In: Mexes, Ferrari, Trabelsi .
Birindelli can still run and he still has more to offer.
Thuram can be the "guidence" figure instead of the proposed Stam.

Midfield:
Add a left Winger if we want to keep neddy in the middle OR a Playmaker to push Nedved to the left. we already lost Davids, and Conte needs to go, so let's get a couple more players. Gasbaranni would be good too. Santana would probibly be just another Camo so dont think juve should get him.
Out: Conte.
In: Rothen, Rosicky (Alex/Deco/ or even Olivera is he does well in Spain), and Gasbaronni back from loan.

Attack: Bring back Zala (i gave my 7 reasons and another thread)
Out attack is the best in the world. We just need suppliers from the midfield. a natural playmaker would make everything right.

............

For next season, this would be the line-up:
GK: Buffon, Chimenti
Defense: Thuram, Trabelsi, Mexes, Ferrari , Legrottaglie, Tudor, Zambrotta, Birindelli. Grandisimmo!!

Midfield: Maresca, Appiah, Tacchinardi, Nedved, Rosicky OR Rothen , Camo, Gasbaronni, Blasi .
Attack: Miccoli, Del Piero, Trez, Di Vaio, Zalayetta.

ever position is fully covered my several players.

TOTAL IN:
BUYS: 4 (Drastic, but very reasonable and nessesary)
RETRIEVE FROM LOAN: 3

TOTAL OUT: 5 (ALL FROM OLD AGE)

Zlatan · Feb 9, 2004

++ [ originally posted by Stupendous Man ] ++
Somebody PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me why everyone is on Maresca's Dikk.

WTF has he done?!?!?!

What, he's played well in Coppa Italia and meaningless CL matches. Well, great for him.

Cassano, who is 2 years younger, is 10 times the player that maresca will ever hope to be.

please, seriously, someone tell me what they see in this kid, that makes everyone think that he is the crown jewel to the future of juventus.

Maresca is no where near Cassano, but they dont play the same position so it's hard to compare them.

baggio · Feb 9, 2004

Sorry, i dont agree with whats being said here. Z, as much as you'd hate to admit it, i think your overreacting. And sure why shouldnt you? After all, its been a while since we last lost 4-0 to any team. But that said, i dont agree with your analysis of overhauling pretty much the entire team. I mean, what do you peole expect? Its not our right to win the scudetto year in and year out. Ok, so we're 8 points adrift. Its not as bad a situation as it could be. Look at the goals conceded by us, in comparison to Milan and Roma. Its And still we're within striking distance of both teams. A lesser team wouldve pretty much drowned a lot lower down the table. Its no point blaming the entire system. Who are we kidding? Tomorrow, when all those changes we pointed out dont work? What would we do then? Cry about how our glory days are over or ask for more changes? Please lets be realistic. Coming to the crux of the matter, the only place i see the need for changes is our defense. And there is no doubt about that. If anyone needs further proof, they can see the goals let in by us this season is 4 times more than our scudetto rivals. Personally, i think Legro has been a big waste. He doesnt seem to be the sort of mainstay defender we're looking for. Apart from that, we need to wring in the defensive changes asap. Our midfield on the other hand has adapted itself to a compactness and a hard work ethic ever since the departure of Zinedine Zidane. And the players servng this midfield fit the bill for just that. Its pretty much the same midfield we were raving about at the start of the season. Although, another midfielder would definitely help serve this purpose because Appiah and Camoranesi aren't the type of players who can come out playing great in each game. And Edgar Davids, well as we can see we're going to miss him for some time to come. The attack imo, is just fine. Yes, Adp is ageing. But i think he has another 2 years at Juve at the least. While the rest of the attack is as good as any in Europe, bench players included. As for the coach. Really, what are yall thinking? You really think he deserves the slip? Cant understand what thats all about. I dont think we'd find a better coach than Lippi not only for the tactics but for the mentality he's instilled in this team. He's the reason we've won so many recent titles in the first place. And ff there's anyone who can guide us through the kind of phase we're facing right now, its him. So please get real.

At the end of the day, lets not jump the gun. Think rationally, and you'll realise, we're a team with nothing more than defensive problems. Lets not forget, this season isnt over. Nor is the era for that matter.

Zlatan · Feb 9, 2004

That was the season Del Piero was injured and back then he was our best player. I believe we'd be 7th now if it wasnt for Nedved.

Also, Stam is currently one of the best defenders in the world.

Zlatan · Feb 9, 2004

++ [ originally posted by baggio ] ++
Sorry, i dont agree with whats being said here. Z, as much as you'd hate to admit it, i think your overreacting. And sure why shouldnt you? After all, its been a while since we last lost 4-0 to any team. But that said, i dont agree with your analysis of overhauling pretty much the entire team. I mean, what do you peole expect? Its not our right to win the scudetto year in and year out. Ok, so we're 8 points adrift. Its not as bad a situation as it could be. Look at the goals conceded by us, in comparison to Milan and Roma. Its And still we're within striking distance of both teams. A lesser team wouldve pretty much drowned a lot lower down the table. Its no point blaming the entire system. Who are we kidding? Tomorrow, when all those changes we pointed out dont work? What would we do then? Cry about how our glory days are over or ask for more changes? Please lets be realistic. Coming to the crux of the matter, the only place i see the need for changes is our defense. And there is no doubt about that. If anyone needs further proof, they can see the goals let in by us this season is 4 times more than our scudetto rivals. Personally, i think Legro has been a big waste. He doesnt seem to be the sort of mainstay defender we're looking for. Apart from that, we need to wring in the defensive changes asap. Our midfield on the other hand has adapted itself to a compactness and a hard work ethic ever since the departure of Zinedine Zidane. And the players servng this midfield fit the bill for just that. Its pretty much the same midfield we were raving about at the start of the season. Although, another midfielder would definitely help serve this purpose because Appiah and Camoranesi aren't the type of players who can come out playing great in each game. And Edgar Davids, well as we can see we're going to miss him for some time to come. The attack imo, is just fine. Yes, Adp is ageing. But i think he has another 2 years at Juve at the least. While the rest of the attack is as good as any in Europe, bench players included. As for the coach. Really, what are yall thinking? You really think he deserves the slip? Cant understand what thats all about. I dont think we'd find a better coach than Lippi not only for the tactics but for the mentality he's instilled in this team. He's the reason we've won so many recent titles in the first place. And ff there's anyone who can guide us through the kind of phase we're facing right now, its him. So please get real.

At the end of the day, lets not jump the gun. Think rationally, and you'll realise, we're a team with nothing more than defensive problems. Lets not forget, this season isnt over. Nor is the era for that matter.

It's not out right to win the Serie A every year, but it's our responsibility do damn right try.

Anyways, I kne some would not agree but I still stand by my opinions.

When i said "End of an era" I didnt mean it like the end of Juventus and our winning in the future, what I ment is that this is the end of the current team, they have done all they can and cant give any more.

baggio · Feb 9, 2004

We're coming 3rd not 13th.

Even that does not apply to the entire current team. Only a fraction of it.
(ie. Montero, Iuliano, Conte, Ferrara etc)

s0ftcore · Feb 9, 2004

Majed, I disagree with you on buying those 3 defenders. Ok maybe Legro won't be the player we hope he turns out to be, but this might mean Thuram in the centre alongside Tudor with Biri on the right. I don't see Moggi making such changes anyway.

Baggio, I'm on your side man. We're changing our style of play as desireless has said, so of course, we've taken some risks AND YET we are 3rd in the League, ahead of Inter and Lazio. That's something I think I can take pride in.

Anyway, I don't think we should react too extremely.

We have an ageing defence, and something needs to be done.
We either need to restructure our midfield, or find somebody in the Davids mould.

kthnx.

polaris · Feb 9, 2004

End of an era? Please.

The defense needs an overhaul. The rest of the team has a good base and of course can be improved. The notion that this team should be blown up and start over is DUMB! Experience is worth tons and you just want to throw it away. I suggest people take a couple days to settle down and really think about this.

Lippi has the tools right now to field a great team. He just needs to change and use them....

Slagathor · Feb 9, 2004

How could I misinterpret that? I mean, you're obviously saying the current team isn't good enough and by stating a new coach may be necessary and SEVERAL new players INSTEAD of the old ones should be brought in, you're pointing towards a revolution, are you not?

Apart from our defence, we have a fine line of players. And they are quite good enough to win silverware, mark my words.

And Stam maybe good but he's also over 30 and he said he'll probably quit after Euro2004 or move back to Holland.

Zlatan · Feb 9, 2004

I am poiting towards a revolution actually.

Ferrara ---> cant give any more
Iuliano ---> cant give any more
Montero ---> cant give any more
Thuram ---> a year or two at most, and is not nowhere near his form last year
Pessotto ---> cant give any more
Conte ---> cant give any more
Camo ---> very very unconsistent
Del Piero ---> overrated

gray · Feb 9, 2004

I wouldn't say that Conte can't give anymore. I've actually liked him being in our team for a few weeks, and he showed that he's still got the passion at least. I always say this, but he was our best player in the CL final

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