The end of an era (1 Viewer)

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,035
#1
I know some of you ill tell me that I'm over-reacting, that things are not so bad, etc etc, but hear me out anyway.

I truly believe that this current Juventus team has given us all it has and they cant do any moer. We've fallen and we wont be able to get up. The Juventus era of the last decade or so when we won numerous Serie A titles, won the CL once and lost it three times is over.

I truly believe that we need drastic changes before the next season, not only in terms of bringing in new players but also in terms of changign the players mentality, even if it means bringing in a new coach. And it's not only because of one loss, we have been playing badly all season, and I simply dont believe we can win anything this season. The Scudetto is virtually out of our reach, not only because of the 8 point gap, but also because of our play. I simply dont believe we can beat any of the big teams this season. Milan, Roma, Lazio, Parma, Inter, Deportivo... we are going to have to improve significantly to even have a chance of winning.

In my opinion these are the areas we need to change:

Goalkeeper:
Yes, I believe we need to bring in another quality goalkeeper, possibly someone thats young, but proven nontheless. I'm not saying we need a replacement for Buffon, but we need a new substitute keeper. Someone with enough quality to make Buffon sweat and give his best in training, someone that can even replace Buffon when he's out of form. Competition is a great thing, it makes you try harder in order too keep your place. I dont exactly see Buffon being scared of Chimenti, do you?

Defence:
This should have been delt with sooner. Our defenders are simply too old, too slow, and past it. I pity the team that has to rely on Iuliano, or Montero not to concede. All the flaws of our defence have been cruelly exposed this season, and noone can deny there is a problem. We lack speed and security, and we make enought errors we can export them to third world countries, and still have plenty. Iuliano, Montero and Ferrara are simply too old, and should not be playing at top level anymore. Thuram has also just passed that magic border after which your career goes downhill... We need changes.

Midfield:
There is no midfield. Altho our midfield was ok last year and we are "supposed" to have more quality and depth this season, that simply isnt the case. Our entire midfield, and all of the team for that matter, depends on Nevded. And he's not superman, nore can he keep his form up forever. Tacchinardi and Appiah have been out of form and we're not holding the midfield nor winning balls like we used to. The wingers are practically non existant. We dont even have a left winger, while Camo makes up for one good performance with 10 bad ones. We need to be able to attack on the whole width of the field, and that implies that the wingers will have to take some pressure off the middle of the pitch and off Nedved. We cant expect Zambrotta to do all the work on the left, nor can we expect the inconsistant Camo and defensive minded Thuram to do anything on the rigth. Bot sides need to be imroved. And thats not all, we need a creative midfielder, a real playmaker. Someone thta can organize the play with flair and spark, creativity and vision, technique and class. Nedved, altho he does a great job, doesnt do it exactly that way, and he too is not getting any younger.

Attack:
The attack has actually been the best part of our team, but it's still far from perfect. We have too many forwards and only one tall target man. At least one of the Del Piero, Di Vaio and Miccoli trio should go, and if we get another small forwards, even two. I dont thik it should be Miccoli, so you do the math. We also need to add another big man to our roster, as there are times when Trezeguet will be injured or out of form. We need someone to replace him.

Coach:
Altho Lippi has done great things for us and is without a doubt one of the greatest managers in the world, I believe it's time for a change. We need someone that will bring in a new approach to the game, someone that will be prepared to experiment more and to take more risks. Someone young and hungry for titles, someone that will be able to motivate the guys again.




Possible solutions:
Goalkeeper: I'm not quite sure who is available, has quality and would be prepared to sit on the bench. Landrau maybe? He would be certanly be an upgrade from Chimenti

Defence: Altho we need to rejuvenate our defense, I believe we still need to have some experience in it, someone to guide our young guns to stardom.
IMO Stam fits the bill perfectly, he's tall, strong and has definite class. He's 31 and has at least two more years of top class football in him. A great partner in him would IMO be Lucio. He's 25, he's tall, stronga, and has an excellent header. He has some pace too, and IMO the defensive pairing of Stam and Lucio would be the best in Italy, if not the world. Legrotagglie and Tudor would sit on the bench, and another defender would be requiered too, someone to lear at first and later replace Stam. Someone like Gonzalo Rodriguez, or Mexes, or Ferrari...
For the right back position we need someone that can both defend and and attack, and someone that's young. Altho Trabelsi is a good player, he would not be my first choice. IMO Hinkel would be great, he's younger than Trabelsi and is and EU player. I believe that after a year of playing under Thuram he would be ready for top class Europan football and a starting place in Juventus. A replacement for zambrotta wouldnt be bad either, someone like Evra.

Midfield:
Like I said, we need tackling, width and flair. IMO the tackling and ball winning part gets lowest priority because we already have Tacchinardi, Appiah and Blasi for that position. But an upgrade is definately possible. We ned to find a natural replacement for Davids, be it Tiago, Muntari or someone else, I dont care.
As far as the fingers are concernet, we need a replacement, and understudy for Camoranesi, someone that has potential and that will in a year or two be better and that can put in consistent performances. Santana would do, but if we are looking for an someone inside the club maybe Gasabaronni could do it.
As far as the left side is concerned, we need a natural left footed player, with solid passing and a great cross. Someone that can play a one two with Zambrotta and combine with him on the left. Also someone that can take corners from the right side. The French Beckham, Rothen.
As far as the playmaker position is concerned, the best and most realistic option is Rosicky, altho someone of the Diego or Aimar type woučdnt be bad. But IMO ROsicky would be more than enought, and if we're buying from Germany Stuttgart's Hleb has some serious skills.

Attack:
Like I already said, we have a good attack but it could be better. We need a replacement for Trezeguet, and IMO Zlatan would be up to the job. he could do Treze's job (he is Ajax' best scorer this season with some 23 goals I believe), and he would add something new, some flair, better technique and someone that can create chances for others better than Trezeguet. Cavenaghi would be a good replacement too, but he's second on my list.
IMO, Miccoli needs to stay with us, while Di Vaio and Del Piero are not that neccessary. Di Vaio could leave in order to create room for anoter forward, Saviola maybe, while we could get some money for our other transfer operations by selling Del Piero. Zalayeta IMO is more than good enough to be a 5th striker for us, and him and Benjamin should gve us more than enough cover if someone gets injured.


Coach:
Deschamps. Who better to create a new Juventus than a player who has won it all with the old Juventus. He's proven he can get the results with Monaco, and his youth and hunger for trophies could be an invaluable asset.


I know some of you will not agree about such drastic measures, but I believe it's time for them and that they will make us even stronger than ever.
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#2
We've fallen and we wont be able to get up.
Wrong. Fiorentina had fallen and couldn't get back up. Napoli and Sampdoria have fallen and are struggling to get back up.

Don't you dare say we have a problem when we are a mere 8 points from the top. Who do you think you are?
 
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Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,035
#3
We wont be able to get up with our current team.

And it's not only because of the 8 point gap

++ [ originally posted by -Z- ] ++


I truly believe that we need drastic changes before the next season, not only in terms of bringing in new players but also in terms of changign the players mentality, even if it means bringing in a new coach. And it's not only because of one loss, we have been playing badly all season, and I simply dont believe we can win anything this season. The Scudetto is virtually out of our reach, not only because of the 8 point gap, but also because of our play. I simply dont believe we can beat any of the big teams this season. Milan, Roma, Lazio, Parma, Inter, Deportivo... we are going to have to improve significantly to even have a chance of winning.
 

kaizer

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2003
2,973
#4
i agree with matto.....it's not like we're getting relegated or summink. gheezz......Zlatan, be realistic. i know we need changes, but not such drastic ones. i wud want lippi to stay, altho some of u mite not agree. he's been our succes coach, and who's to say didier wud do the job if he were to come. french league is not serie A, he needs more experience.....more time. he wud replace lippi....but not ASAP.
 
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Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,035
#6
We already tried with non drastic changes. Moggi tried to do some damage control by signing only Legro this season, and look where that has taken us.
 
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Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,035
#8
Say what you want, but at least try to insert a few valid arguments, instead of your constant personal insulting. Must you always run away from a discussion?

[/Ian to Paul]
 

#10

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2002
6,814
#9
do you guys remember a thread i posted a while ago?? regartding juve's theory and how its come unstuck.....wellit jus fell to bits to night, proving my thread rite.


Defense, needed fixing along time ago, last year let alone this year.

midfield, we needed more quality when we had davids, now ed ont even have davids.

Forwards....too many shorty guys...... trez is not the complete striker which is what we need.

Jesus, is a bargain team like roma can paste us, then what hope have we got??

Totti ... nothing
Chivu.. on credit
Cassono...18

On paper and cost, our team is more expensive....yet we are not as good as them...........how????? Cos we dont spend when we clearly need to..

It is good we dont spend extensively when wwe dont need to.

But is clear as day that we need defender, and a few of them. Midfield need a good rejig as well. We have average or young player...bar nedved.

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

How the hell did we loose 4-0 to fcuking roma :fero:
 

kaizer

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2003
2,973
#10
i dont mean not making changes at all......but surely not summink totally drastic like changing the coach etc. lippi has been delivering us with silverwares for the last 2years, and that's is one hell on an achievement.

but i do believe we're buying "big" this summer.....esp in defence. 2CD, 2 fullbacks.....maybe midfield or two.


now, come to think about it....that IS drastic :p so, yes......i take back what i sed. maybe we do need drastic changes. but surely not on coaching dept. i dont think lippi is to be blamed for tonite's performance or this season on the whole. the coach has his game plan, it depends on players to do the job....and unfortunately, they didnt
 
Sep 28, 2002
13,975
#11
actually i agree with zlatan. with most of his points. we need to change defence completely, thats a fact, we need good players in midfield, we need a playmaker and wingers. we need to sell di vaio. is he support striker? please, he cant create, to be support striker you need to do that. you are the weakest link, good bye.
but mostly i agree with lippi part. trap will go after euro champs. lippi is one of the main candidates for that place. his performance this year cannot be described as perfect. so why not letting him go? imagine, 3rd place in serie a, out in quarters in cl and in semies in coppa. someone will have to go. ok, that's the worst possible scenario but this could happen. though i believe (hope?) it wont. then lippi will be the one to blame. for treating davids like shit, for not asking for new defenders, for missuse of striking power.
its not over yet, we have theoretical chances to win but only if luck is on our side. so far it wasn't. but idea of drastic changes came into my mind about 2 months ago. and i think it is a good idea.
 
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Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,035
#12
Remember, I'm not saying that any of this is Lippi's fault. But after a while of winning and coaching and after all the good he has ndone, maybe we need a different approach. He's been great and we thank him, but something different might be good. Maybe Mancini if not Deschamps.
 

kaizer

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2003
2,973
#13
++ [ originally posted by Fliakis ] ++
then lippi will be the one to blame. for treating davids like shit, for not asking for new defenders, for missuse of striking power.
:stress: wasnt it moggi who treated davids like shit.....? somehow i dont think lippi has summink to do with that. how do u go from saying that a guy is ur "one man engine room" to completely snubbing him from playing....? doesnt make sense. moggi had summink to do with that, believe me
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#14
++ [ originally posted by -Z- ] ++
Say what you want, but at least try to insert a few valid arguments, instead of your constant personal insulting. Must you always run away from a discussion?

[/Ian to Paul]
Very well.

The Keeper

Three words: Salvatore Fagone Pulice. Though I have to admit I've never seen him play myself, I heard he's quite the interesting prospect and guess what: he plays in our very own Primavera squadra.

Oh, and competition is a great thing? Yeah sure, just look at Chelsea. How lovely are they performing.

Competition poisons the atmosphere. Especially amongst goalkeepers.

The defence

Ageing and deteriorating fast. I agree with you - we need new defenders. Don't write of Legrottaglie though, he'll do fine given the time.

The midfield

There is no midfield? Are you out of your mind?! Maresca is superb. Tacchinardi and Appiah are playing well and have potential to become better, especially the latter. Camoranesi has shown us in the past what he can do. Hell, he showed us as recent as last week. You want wingers? What on earth for. Did you not see the failing wingers of Holland versus Italy on Euro2000? Wingers are predictible, they run, they cross. It's easily defended. We need creative players and guess what, we have them. Maresca, Nedved and, to a lesser extent, Del Piero can all fulfil this role. If we get someone young over the summer to replace Nedved in due time I'll be happy but that's all we need.

The attack

We've scored over 40 goals this season so far. We're shattering records and you still dare say it's not good enough? Are you mad? Don't forget, these great performances came under the absence of an injured Del Piero, during a dip in form of Trezeguet and a struggling to adapt Miccoli. Imagine what will happen after the summer when these players are rested and eager!!

The coaching

Lippi brought us two Scudetti and a CL final. Give him some credit for fuck's sake!
 
Sep 14, 2003
5,800
#15
We as Juventus fans are spoilt, we want success, we want the team to play attractive attacking footabll and sometimes we get pissed off when we win without doing so.

We expect the team to always be competative and challenge for every piece of silverware we can get.

Sometimes though, we must accpet that we can't always be the best team, win every trophy and win every game. The defeats and failures make the victories that much sweeter.

Things could be alot worse, take at look at Parma, I would say their fans suffering a hell of a lot more than we are.

In good and bad times, Forza Juve!!
 

#10

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2002
6,814
#16
i dont reallly want lippi or moggi to leave, but i jus hope theyt realise that we need to spend, the old guard's days are numbered...gigi, miccoli, enzo, zambro, are the future back bone........we need to build a new team around them....

Neddy will not last forever :frown:
Dp's form fluctuates
Trez is incomplete
Camo....nowere near world class.
Tach..average

Thruram...top of the hill and walking to the other side.

Rest of the defense....this season have been purely poo.

We lost david sand go tno one to reallly replace him.... he was the bite to our midfield...we have a ***** cat for a midfield. We need and deservce a tiger like those of Utd, milan, real, all the other big teams.

This has been a timebomb

Its not the end of the world....we will come back i kno, thats why i love Juve.

But this must be a lesson to Juve, players dont last forever.
 

kaizer

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2003
2,973
#17
++ [ originally posted by Holdon ] ++
We as Juventus fans are spoilt, we want success, we want the team to play attractive attacking footabll and sometimes we get pissed off when we win without doing so.

Sometimes though, we must accpet that we can't always be the best team, win every trophy and win every game. The defeats and failures make the victories that much sweeter.

Things could be alot worse, take at look at Parma, I would say their fans suffering a hell of a lot more than we are.

In good and bad times, Forza Juve!!
:touched: gr8 post holdon.....

and i do agree with matto to some extent
 
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Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,035
#18
++ [ originally posted by Matto ] ++


Very well.

The Keeper

Three words: Salvatore Fagone Pulice. Though I have to admit I've never seen him play myself, I heard he's quite the interesting prospect and guess what: he plays in our very own Primavera squadra.

Oh, and competition is a great thing? Yeah sure, just look at Chelsea. How lovely are they performing.

Competition poisons the atmosphere. Especially amongst goalkeepers.
Ahhh, there we go :)


Anyways, you do have a point and that can be true, but it's by no means a rule. While competition can create a tense atmosphere, no competition can create a too relaxed atmosphere. IMO challenges are good because they keep you oj your toes, you always give your best and do all you can because you know that the other guy is breathing down your neck. It can be a hell of a kick in the arse. Buffon might get to relaxed if he knows there's noone that can challenge him in Juventus.


++ [ originally posted by Matto ] ++

The defence

Ageing and deteriorating fast. I agree with you - we need new defenders. Don't write of Legrottaglie though, he'll do fine given the time.
I'm not writing him off, I just believe he should be a substitute untile he finds his form.


++ [ originally posted by Matto ] ++

The midfield

There is no midfield? Are you out of your mind?! Maresca is superb. Tacchinardi and Appiah are playing well and have potential to become better, especially the latter. Camoranesi has shown us in the past what he can do. Hell, he showed us as recent as last week. You want wingers? What on earth for. Did you not see the failing wingers of Holland versus Italy on Euro2000? Wingers are predictible, they run, they cross. It's easily defended. We need creative players and guess what, we have them. Maresca, Nedved and, to a lesser extent, Del Piero can all fulfil this role. If we get someone young over the summer to replace Nedved in due time I'll be happy but that's all we need.
Now, now, relax. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that I never said that there is no midfield. I just believe that it's not quite as good as we thought. And as predictable as you thing wingers are, I believe they are a neccessety. Are you telling me that our current play that revolves around Nedved is not predictable? Shut out Nedved and we're helpless. Wingers would give us more options, and more options means more unpredictiveness. I believe Juve should be able to play both through the middle and on the wings. And for that we need wingers. Maresca and Nedved are indeed great, but Nedved will not be around forever, and Maresca isnt the playmaker type like Rosicky ore Aimar. I'd rather play him instead of Tacchinardi.


++ [ originally posted by Matto ] ++

The attack

We've scored over 40 goals this season so far. We're shattering records and you still dare say it's not good enough? Are you mad? Don't forget, these great performances came under the absence of an injured Del Piero, during a dip in form of Trezeguet and a struggling to adapt Miccoli. Imagine what will happen after the summer when these players are rested and eager!!
Again, I didnt not say it's not good enough, I said it could be better, and IMO we should alaways strive to be better. And why dont you Imagin what will happen when Trezeguet gets injured. Who will replace him? DO you expect Miccoli to bang the headers in after corners? Nobody is perfect and everybody can get better.

++ [ originally posted by Matto ] ++

The coaching

Lippi brought us two Scudetti and a CL final. Give him some credit for fuck's sake!

Do you intentionally missinterpret my posts? Like I said, Lippi is a great coach and he has done fantastic things for us, but maybe a time has come when he can no longer motivate the players like before. Maybe we have got stuck in a rut and a chagne is needed.
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,805
#19
++ [ originally posted by Holdon ] ++
We as Juventus fans are spoilt, we want success, we want the team to play attractive attacking footabll and sometimes we get pissed off when we win without doing so.

We expect the team to always be competative and challenge for every piece of silverware we can get.

Sometimes though, we must accpet that we can't always be the best team, win every trophy and win every game. The defeats and failures make the victories that much sweeter.

Things could be alot worse, take at look at Parma, I would say their fans suffering a hell of a lot more than we are.

In good and bad times, Forza Juve!!

thats the way it is man....


Im really not that dissapointed at all. This seaosn is very sure that we will not win any trophy...but we cant afford to win something every year.

That is normal..... after all...oma and milan were losers in the 2 last season too ;)
 

kaizer

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2003
2,973
#20
i dont want to start a new theard, so here goes.....


Marcello Lippi insists that Juventus have no intention of giving up the Scudetto chase despite lagging eight points behind the leaders.

“This is a message to those Juventus fans who I understand will be downhearted this evening: Nobody here is giving up.”

Many have ruled the Bianconeri – who have lifted the last two Italian titles – out of the running after tonight’s 4-0 drubbing at the hands of Roma.

“If anyone out there thinks Juve will let go of this Scudetto then they can take that idea right out of their heads,” added Lippi. “This is not over.”

The worst Bianconeri defence for forty years reared its ugly head once more by conceding four goals.

“Quite simply Juventus were in the game until we went 2-0 down,” he insisted. “When I was preparing the substitution of our two players who were already booked Paolo Montero was sent off and that was the end of that.”

“Today we conceded a goal on a set-piece so I don’t think Olivier Dacourt’s strike can be blamed on the defence. The penalty and the red card moments later turned the game.”

Despite dominating much of the first half, Roma went into the half-time break only 1-0 up and added to their tally in the closing stages.

“Most of Roma’s chances up until that point were chaotic moves or individual moments of magic such as when Francesco Totti rattled the crossbar, but it was a balanced encounter.”

There was controversy and surprise before the game when Alessandro Del Piero was sent to the stands, but Lippi assures there is no story to discuss.

“Del Piero suffered a muscular problem during yesterday’s training session and we tried to get him back to full fitness in time for the match. New tests showed it was a minor strain and we could not risk it. There is no mystery.”



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on some point, i agree with lippi....but i sure hope he wud critised his players openly sometimes :down: and not just denying everything
 

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