Tactics and Formations (16 Viewers)

[Zacheryah]

Crawling. You are good at it. Like a worm.
Thanks for that post. I'll find this easy to quote you on in the future

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Zach you're being a little disingenuous here. Of course Dybala's "best" position is as an SS or forward, playing in a central role... but this doesn't mean he can't play on the wing. He did so at times for both Palermo and his previous club Instituto. Is he better in the centre? Yes. But you're acting like it's impossible for him to play on the wing, which it isn't at all, he's entirely capable of it. And regardless of what Allegri says, he's also capable of playing behind a front 2 as a CAM, as he also done this at previous clubs.

Now the question isn't whether he can play those roles, or whether his best position is SS or not. The answer is yes to both of those questions. The main question is whether the sacrifice of playing him in a position where he is slightly less effective is worth it for a formation potentially better-suited to the rest of the team. And Allegri may decide yes to that, now that we have Cuadrado and Sandro. Cuadrado is better as a RWF than a RWB, and Sandro is better as a LB than a LWB. Mandzukic is definitely better suited to a 3 man frontline than a 2 man one.

But... and this is the one thing people are neglecting when placing Dybala on the Left in a 4-3-3. Dybala has not played LWF, and is more suited to a free role as RWF, in a 4-3-3, as it allows him to cut in and shoot with his left. So essentially, you are correct in that a 4-3-3 with Dybala on the left and Cuadrado on the right would not work very well, but not because Dybala cannot play on the wing, he most certainly can, it's more so because he is very one-footed, and with the type of winger he would be, the Right wing suits him much more, and is the only wing he's actually played on in the past.

Morata is a different story. He actually played LWF quite a few times for Real Madrid (and a large number of times more for Castilla). Mostly as a sub with the first team. But in his full-league debut in a Clasico, when Ronaldo was out in 2013, he was man-of-the-match playing on the LW with Benzema as the CF, in a 2-1 Real Madrid win. He was brilliant. He dominated Alves. He tracked back well, he crossed well, he attacked well. He did everything well as a Left Winger.


He has the clear ability to play LWF, and to play it very well. Which means we have two options at LWF in Morata + Coman. And two options at RWF with Cuadrado + Dybala. I could easily see us playing 4-3-3 at times with Mandzukic in the centre of Morata and Cuadrado/Dybala. You can't keep denying that both of these players can play quite well on the wing. They're very versatile young players and both have shown they can play on the wing. Is it their ideal position? No. But it's not like they're disasters out wide. Not in the slightest. And it may end up being that if Mandzukic is firing on all cylinders we shall see Morata and Dybala out wide in a 3 man front at times. Or even behind Mandzukic in a 4-3-2-1.

What I see, even if we don't get a CAM, is a lot of tactical versatility in this squad. We'll see 4-3-3, 4-3-1-2, 4-3-2-1, and 3-5-2 at times. I really doubt we're going to see 3-5-2 in the vast majority of our matches as you seem to imply.

You're pigeonholing players way too severely. The only two forwards on our team (assuming Llorente leaves) that are really restricted to a single position are Zaza and Llorente. They're CFs. Hard-working ones, but they are not versatile. Dybala and Morata and even Coman are all extremely versatile along the front-line, and we could easily play forward lines of:

Dybala/Cuadrado--Mandzukic--Morata

Dybala/Cuadrado--Morata--Coman

----Dybala---Morata---
--------Mandzukic----

---Dybala---Coman---
-----Morata----

Paragraph one

Sure he could play at the wing, but at what cost ? Dybala has a very important function in this juventus, as he's the prime creative player we have for the final third.
Now if we had for example

Cuadrado - Gotze - dybala
-------Morata

Then it would make sense to push him in a less effective role, cause he's not the main big creative source. However as it stands, he's the only one we got. And you allways
try to make your best creative player play in his ideal circumstances. Its why we dont push tevez wide like argentina. Cause tevez was our 10. While argentina had like 3 better
forwards

Paragraph two

There is a difference there. Mandzukic can play front 2 if the other striker isnt a simular player that occupies his territory. Dybala and coman work in that regard,
as they move in spaces around him, rather then be static. Sandro is as good a lwb as lb. Cuadrado when tactically compensated by someone, could actually be better at rwb
then rw. He's lethal if he has loads of space in front of him.
Dybala however, loses significant game.

paragraph 3

Yeah. And he'll stick to the center, he doesnt hug he line and times his inward movement. SO someone else will be forced to draw the play wide. Not a fan of this.

Paragraph 4

Morata can play as a LW, against a team that attacks. Against organised teams, he'd preferably be in the center, and going down the wing to help the wingback/fullback,
or to attack when there is space.
Like he did in the CL last year. Often moving to rw or lw to run at balls trown behind the fullbacks. Just not a fan of putting him there.

Paragraph 5

Still not a fan of dybala as rw. But 4-3-2-1 with pereyra could work. However, without an AM, these are all counter based formations. With Dybala and Morata we dont have
the ability to domminate the play and be effective with 433. Countering is a different thing.
Actually, this is why i'm certain we'll use a 4-3-something in europe instead of 3-5-2. We are gonna sit deep and carve the opponent with our lightning speed counterteam


@Kieselguhr

 

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[Klin]

Crawling. You are good at it. Like a worm.
Thanks for that post. I'll find this easy to quote you on in the future

Please tell me where I've said that Marotta does everything wrong, that Conte can't adapt, that Allegri has no spine and that ALL of our transfers are wrong?

You're losing the plot, Zachy boy. Don't be so angry all the time. You're sounding like @Osman these days.

 

[Zacheryah]

Get back on topic Klin, goodnight

 

[Klin]

It's 10:26, Zach.

 

[Cheesio]

Get back on topic Klin, goodnight

It's 10:26, Zach.

 

[pavluska]

He is pigeonholing players way too severely as it fits his agenda obviously.
He should keep his pills ready once we move to a 4 man backline.

And pavluska welcome ! Great intro

Thanks and cheers

Rename this thread Zach vs the World

 

[Hydde]

Zach you're being a little disingenuous here. Of course Dybala's "best" position is as an SS or forward, playing in a central role... but this doesn't mean he can't play on the wing. He did so at times for both Palermo and his previous club Instituto. Is he better in the centre? Yes. But you're acting like it's impossible for him to play on the wing, which it isn't at all, he's entirely capable of it. And regardless of what Allegri says, he's also capable of playing behind a front 2 as a CAM, as he also done this at previous clubs.

Thanks and cheers

Rename this thread Zach vs the World

Lol you know nick vs the world?

He is pigeonholing players way too severely as it fits his agenda obviously.
He should keep his pills ready once we move to a 4 man backline.

And pavluska

welcome ! Great intro

That Zachs in a nutshell. He is also getting baddass´s stubborness syndrome.

Yes Dybala himself said he can play and BE effective on the wing. ANd from what i have seen of him, he can play CAM if allegri decides to. He doesnt need to have the speed of morata to do it... he got the main things: vision, passing and dribbles. Thats all he needs.

 

[Lion]

what the hell is this thread?


why everyone mini cronios?

do yu actually think i will read your posts?

 

[Zacheryah]

Lol you know nick vs the world?



That Zachs in a nutshell. He is also getting baddass´s stubborness syndrome.

Yes Dybala himself said he can play and BE effective on the wing. ANd from what i have seen of him, he can play CAM if allegri decides to. He doesnt need to have the speed of morata to do it... he got the main things: vision, passing and dribbles. Thats all he needs.

AH yes, i'm stubborn.

SS players lose half their game when forced on the wing, compared to natural wide players. Wingers in the center can work. Tho usually their skillset will be more suited for the side. Coman comes in mind.

Come back at me when Dybala actually has to play like a wide attacker, and he has a killer game. He wont.

 

[pavluska]

Anyway...

Dybala will be a bit like Omar Sivori out wide for us. The two have some things in common stylistically and in terms of stature (physical stature of course; Dybala has a lot to prove while Sivori is a legend).

I usually dislike "the new X" nicknames for players, but Dybala being called the new Sivori makes more sense than the new Aguero/Messi.

 

[Siamak]

for second half coman instead dybala and pereyra instead sturaro if need to change formation and switch to 4 3 1 2 and Cuadrado is back up
rugani can be starter if chiello gets injury

 

[Elvin]

I'm sure Morata can play on the wing but it would be a huge waste of his clutchness in front of goal.

 

[Bianconero81]

What a horrible formation!

 

[adRHCP]

Barzagli-Bonucci-Chiellini
Cuadrado-Khedira-Marchisio-Pogba-Sandro
Dybala-Morata

???

 

[Klin]

No.

 

[kao_ray]

Please kill the 3-5-2 with fire. Please, someone?

 

[Klin]

Please kill the 3-5-2 with fire. Please, someone?

Tonight I wanna dream about Witsel killing it with fire while I touch myself.

 

[Klovn]

Forbid it in this club pls

 

[rakib567]

Buffon
Licht Bonucci Chiellini Sandro
Cuadrado Sturaro Pogba Pereyra
Dybala Morata



then when khedira and marchisio come back

Buffon
Licht Bonucci Chiellini Sandro
Khedira Marchisio Pogba
Cuadrado Morata Dybala​

 

[Scottish]

It's clear that we're still experimenting with formations and lineups to see what suits us best. Hopefully MaXX figures it out sooner rather than later and we can get back to winning.