SERIE A: Siena - Juventus (15 Viewers)
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It really is strange that all coaches seem to hate him to some extent. If the math is to be done as suggested, statistically, I'd be inclined to think that
the problem lies with the constant himself. On stats again, kindly input the contexts on the kind of seasons Baggio's teams had. Knee problems? Funny you should say that and bring ADP in as a comparison. If ADP is hype riding on his past, Baggio isn't far behind standing behind the immunity of a legend.
My, that's ungrateful. While its difficult to quantify how much ADP carried the team on his shoulders while playing, its easier to conclude through how sh!t the team became without him more often than not. Just to add on about the player 'making' a difference part, I thought the captain did a great job given the relative quality of the rest of Juve's squad in recent history. The era of one-man teams is gone or at least more so than ever in the modern era. Lastly, I'd exercise more restraint in calling someone over the hill especially when its Juve we're talking about. History shows otherwise. The Nedved case smacks of another instance of being ungrateful. In any case, how many players does Juve have left to start getting rid of the ones you mentioned the moment they have extended bad patches?
The argument for Miccoli, Maresca et al to come in needs to be put into perspective as an alternative which might seem better than it actually is. In any case, there's a lot of hindsight involved in these kinda talks ... like Lippi could just as well have been hailed as a hero had some things turned out differently.
the problem lies with the constant himself. On stats again, kindly input the contexts on the kind of seasons Baggio's teams had. Knee problems? Funny you should say that and bring ADP in as a comparison. If ADP is hype riding on his past, Baggio isn't far behind standing behind the immunity of a legend.
My, that's ungrateful. While its difficult to quantify how much ADP carried the team on his shoulders while playing, its easier to conclude through how sh!t the team became without him more often than not. Just to add on about the player 'making' a difference part, I thought the captain did a great job given the relative quality of the rest of Juve's squad in recent history. The era of one-man teams is gone or at least more so than ever in the modern era. Lastly, I'd exercise more restraint in calling someone over the hill especially when its Juve we're talking about. History shows otherwise. The Nedved case smacks of another instance of being ungrateful. In any case, how many players does Juve have left to start getting rid of the ones you mentioned the moment they have extended bad patches?
The argument for Miccoli, Maresca et al to come in needs to be put into perspective as an alternative which might seem better than it actually is. In any case, there's a lot of hindsight involved in these kinda talks ... like Lippi could just as well have been hailed as a hero had some things turned out differently.
I can't even remember the last time I watched a Juve match, that's how bad life is 
I'll say one thing though, and don't deny this - it's incredible how some fans blame everything on DP, but when he's on the bench or something and Juve's playing badly suddenly they cheer "bring on Del Piero!" and when DP does help suddenly they will find other excuses to not give DP his credit.
I'll say one thing though, and don't deny this - it's incredible how some fans blame everything on DP, but when he's on the bench or something and Juve's playing badly suddenly they cheer "bring on Del Piero!" and when DP does help suddenly they will find other excuses to not give DP his credit.
To Slack (feel to lazy to quote everything)
I think u are the kinda of fan that in order to be grateful to a player that has won in the past u r willing to see ur team playing shitty...sorry but that is not me. I wanna see my team winning constantly or at least diying in the matter. If a player underperforms or he is no longer helpful to the cause I rather sell him and bring another one that will do the job much better. Cuz I cheer the team, not the single player. Players come and go Juventus will always be there, but maybe u don't understand this because u r a single player lover like many people in this forum.
I think u are the kinda of fan that in order to be grateful to a player that has won in the past u r willing to see ur team playing shitty...sorry but that is not me. I wanna see my team winning constantly or at least diying in the matter. If a player underperforms or he is no longer helpful to the cause I rather sell him and bring another one that will do the job much better. Cuz I cheer the team, not the single player. Players come and go Juventus will always be there, but maybe u don't understand this because u r a single player lover like many people in this forum.
++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++
I can't even remember the last time I watched a Juve match, that's how bad life is
I'll say one thing though, and don't deny this - it's incredible how some fans blame everything on DP, but when he's on the bench or something and Juve's playing badly suddenly they cheer "bring on Del Piero!" and when DP does help suddenly they will find other excuses to not give DP his credit.
I can't even remember the last time I watched a Juve match, that's how bad life is
I'll say one thing though, and don't deny this - it's incredible how some fans blame everything on DP, but when he's on the bench or something and Juve's playing badly suddenly they cheer "bring on Del Piero!" and when DP does help suddenly they will find other excuses to not give DP his credit.
Look to make things more clear so maybe u guys will understand for once and for all. In the first Juve of Lippi my fav player was Vialli, cuz his charisma and leadership on the field. A true captain, and for me one the man that helped Lippi build an incredible team. The day Juve had decide to sell him I agreed. I wasn't like u guys with DP. Vialli's time was over it was time to move one, why u guys do not accept this is out of my world...
I have read you so many times saying that Dp has done "shit" in the 2000s but in the 4 seasons you have quoted up there , I see he has scored 50 serieA goals and if we took Baggios 4 years at Milan and Inter where he was bought to win scudetto , he scored an amazingly high 21 goals
Now somehow Dp is an abject failure but Baggio is the greatest player ever
I hate to always seem like I am attacking Baggio but with the greatest respect to some of his more reasonable fans, some of his fanatics are living in cuckoo land
How dare you mention the Spain game
1) Spain are never interestted in friendlies
2) They were aware of the situation and so did not really put everything into tackling Baggio , gave him the respect and room to manouvre just like Milan tried to do on sunday
The Miccolli you keep campaining about must lack something in Lippi's eyes otherwise he would constantly play him
For all the dislike we keep saying that Lippi has for young players, he did play Maresca enuff times this season and Appiah was a constsant, he just had to get his balance right
Remind me again how many goals Miccolli scored for Perugia
I keep on saying it, the guy has an amazing shot and some nice touches but he is not your main event, he is not the show stopper
And he was given his chance this season, he just didnt take it with both hands
Dp was not there when we were comprehensively beaten by Roma 4-0, Milan 3-1, Inter 3-2 when it should have been 5-1, Lazio in the cup 2-0
No his replacements were there but they do not get stick from mainly the pro-Baggio group who have never and will never forgive the guy for taking the place of their hero and use the guise of "we want the best for the club" to cover up what has always been their resentment
You mention Vialli, interesting how you mention him, was it not when Baggio was finally out of the way that Vialli came into his own and witht he help of Dp led us to our first scudetto in many a year and Cl they year after?
Dont worry Sparty , Dp's era is coming to a close, just bear with it for a few more seasons and besides if he does go whom will you blame for our woes
Now somehow Dp is an abject failure but Baggio is the greatest player ever
I hate to always seem like I am attacking Baggio but with the greatest respect to some of his more reasonable fans, some of his fanatics are living in cuckoo land
How dare you mention the Spain game
1) Spain are never interestted in friendlies
2) They were aware of the situation and so did not really put everything into tackling Baggio , gave him the respect and room to manouvre just like Milan tried to do on sunday
The Miccolli you keep campaining about must lack something in Lippi's eyes otherwise he would constantly play him
For all the dislike we keep saying that Lippi has for young players, he did play Maresca enuff times this season and Appiah was a constsant, he just had to get his balance right
Remind me again how many goals Miccolli scored for Perugia
I keep on saying it, the guy has an amazing shot and some nice touches but he is not your main event, he is not the show stopper
And he was given his chance this season, he just didnt take it with both hands
Dp was not there when we were comprehensively beaten by Roma 4-0, Milan 3-1, Inter 3-2 when it should have been 5-1, Lazio in the cup 2-0
No his replacements were there but they do not get stick from mainly the pro-Baggio group who have never and will never forgive the guy for taking the place of their hero and use the guise of "we want the best for the club" to cover up what has always been their resentment
You mention Vialli, interesting how you mention him, was it not when Baggio was finally out of the way that Vialli came into his own and witht he help of Dp led us to our first scudetto in many a year and Cl they year after?
Dont worry Sparty , Dp's era is coming to a close, just bear with it for a few more seasons and besides if he does go whom will you blame for our woes
That is the most irrelevant thing ever...please. Cuz following the same rule I can take the first four years of Juve of Roberto Baggio and then compare them to the first four of DP and I can clearly state that DP won what he won, because of the team and not because of his plays, while Roberto Baggio did more than enough, but didn't have a team on his shoulder no matter the names that were in it...names don't win games.
I mentioned the Spain game cuz is the last game R.Baggio played with the national team. If u want, I can refresh ur memory with France 98 where ur beloved golden boy sucked ass, and please do not give me the: "oh he came from an injury that is always ur favorite excuse". R.Baggio has been playing with his both knees fuked up and still kicks ass! and never took 3 yrs to get well like DP is doing... DP IMO is the most ininfluential player ever. U may say that the last 2 scudetto we won was because DP scored around 16 goals and I say to u another player wouldv'e done the same. Just look at Chevanton. He scored 19 goals this season and playing with Lecce...
He did play him along the season of course not as much as he should've. Everytime Miccoli stepped in the field he did something, but Lippi uses a lot hierarchies in his team meaning that DP is the starter, then comes Di Vaio a player that cannot go to waste after all the money they spent on him and then comes Miccoli a player that knew that was gonna spent lot of his time in the bench...u should know this stuff...
Maresca played cuz out all the midfielders along with Camo is the only one with good feet. He should've play him and not Conte from the start...look Ancelotti what he did with Pirlo...and Appiah played because we did not have a sub for Davids and because they were obly to play him since Lippi wanted him so bad to replace Davids, so it wasn't an act of mercy from Lippi's part.
Sure he scored 9 goals in his first serie A season not mention his goals in the coppa Italia bringing the team to a final or semifinal don't remember well...DP in his first season has a starter scored 8 goals and playing in a big team...
If Juve will trust Miccoli he will be the next best thing...
Wrong. I have no resentement of DP cuz R.Baggio was out of Juve. DP didn't outshine R.Baggio there were only problems with the coach that made Juve took the decision to sell him, cuz R.Baggio and DP could've play together in Juve...
The thing is that I cheer Juve. When I see a player that is underperforming in my team, I want him out. I want another player in that can play better. Its not only DP right now. I also don't like Nedved. I think they should sell him. He played like shit after winning the golden ball he hasn't done nothing, but Lippi kept him no matter what, and I hate that. He shoudlv'e been on the bench and let other players take his position.
No not at all. R.Baggio already had problems with Lippi that is the way of his exclusion from Juve. It wasn't cuz R.Baggio was out of the way that Juventus won. R.Baggio contributed also at that scudetto don't forget it.
I mentioned the Spain game cuz is the last game R.Baggio played with the national team. If u want, I can refresh ur memory with France 98 where ur beloved golden boy sucked ass, and please do not give me the: "oh he came from an injury that is always ur favorite excuse". R.Baggio has been playing with his both knees fuked up and still kicks ass! and never took 3 yrs to get well like DP is doing... DP IMO is the most ininfluential player ever. U may say that the last 2 scudetto we won was because DP scored around 16 goals and I say to u another player wouldv'e done the same. Just look at Chevanton. He scored 19 goals this season and playing with Lecce...
He did play him along the season of course not as much as he should've. Everytime Miccoli stepped in the field he did something, but Lippi uses a lot hierarchies in his team meaning that DP is the starter, then comes Di Vaio a player that cannot go to waste after all the money they spent on him and then comes Miccoli a player that knew that was gonna spent lot of his time in the bench...u should know this stuff...
Maresca played cuz out all the midfielders along with Camo is the only one with good feet. He should've play him and not Conte from the start...look Ancelotti what he did with Pirlo...and Appiah played because we did not have a sub for Davids and because they were obly to play him since Lippi wanted him so bad to replace Davids, so it wasn't an act of mercy from Lippi's part.
Sure he scored 9 goals in his first serie A season not mention his goals in the coppa Italia bringing the team to a final or semifinal don't remember well...DP in his first season has a starter scored 8 goals and playing in a big team...
If Juve will trust Miccoli he will be the next best thing...
Wrong. I have no resentement of DP cuz R.Baggio was out of Juve. DP didn't outshine R.Baggio there were only problems with the coach that made Juve took the decision to sell him, cuz R.Baggio and DP could've play together in Juve...
The thing is that I cheer Juve. When I see a player that is underperforming in my team, I want him out. I want another player in that can play better. Its not only DP right now. I also don't like Nedved. I think they should sell him. He played like shit after winning the golden ball he hasn't done nothing, but Lippi kept him no matter what, and I hate that. He shoudlv'e been on the bench and let other players take his position.
No not at all. R.Baggio already had problems with Lippi that is the way of his exclusion from Juve. It wasn't cuz R.Baggio was out of the way that Juventus won. R.Baggio contributed also at that scudetto don't forget it.
Ah, thank you for your lecture.
The measly effort you put into assumptions would be better utilized in every other aspect. My gratitude stems from what they've done for Juve. The consideration ahead of some rookie is simply because they earned that right, until proven otherwise. That was the basis of building. What you ranted off your armchair is called piecing. Its too bad Juve can't keep up with your expectations to win constantly or die outright. The whole team underperformed. Are you gonna sack every single one of them? Seeing that your choices are somewhat limited to the usual popular candidates, apparently not. Given how rapidly your patience is exhausted, we're all glad you weren't making the decisions for the dormant bunch like Zambrotta. If you're gonna lap off Moggi's chop & change management, perspective helps. Apart from brief fireworks with Vialli, Ravanelli et al, his ass is probably in worse shape than Baggio's knees with the number of discards coming back to bite him. You might also want to make a slight correction to your grand claim - it should read 'I cheer success' as the be all end all ... everything else is peripheral.
Lastly, "Players come and go but Juventus will always be there" has quite a bit more depth than the cheap way you bandied it around.
The measly effort you put into assumptions would be better utilized in every other aspect. My gratitude stems from what they've done for Juve. The consideration ahead of some rookie is simply because they earned that right, until proven otherwise. That was the basis of building. What you ranted off your armchair is called piecing. Its too bad Juve can't keep up with your expectations to win constantly or die outright. The whole team underperformed. Are you gonna sack every single one of them? Seeing that your choices are somewhat limited to the usual popular candidates, apparently not. Given how rapidly your patience is exhausted, we're all glad you weren't making the decisions for the dormant bunch like Zambrotta. If you're gonna lap off Moggi's chop & change management, perspective helps. Apart from brief fireworks with Vialli, Ravanelli et al, his ass is probably in worse shape than Baggio's knees with the number of discards coming back to bite him. You might also want to make a slight correction to your grand claim - it should read 'I cheer success' as the be all end all ... everything else is peripheral.
Lastly, "Players come and go but Juventus will always be there" has quite a bit more depth than the cheap way you bandied it around.
Sparty just be grateful to him.He is not suck and nothing,yeah sometimes he is not good,but it's hard had lots of traums in his carrier and many hard injuries,still always had the touch the magic and the goals we needed.
So cut this bullshit talk off.
True Juve fans will never SCREAM like you:He sux!....He is shit!.....and etc.
So cut this bullshit talk off.
True Juve fans will never SCREAM like you:He sux!....He is shit!.....and etc.
Sparty just be grateful to him.He is not suck and nothing,yeah sometimes he is not good,but it's hard had lots of traums in his carrier and many hard injuries,still always had the touch the magic and the goals we needed.
So cut this bullshit talk off.
True Juve fans will never SCREAM like you:He sux!....He is shit!.....and etc.
So cut this bullshit talk off.
True Juve fans will never SCREAM like you:He sux!....He is shit!.....and etc.
No I'm not, because is not doing me any favor...it gets paid to score and with his contract of superstar he should do much more of what he does...Since I cheer for JUVENTUS and not like many of u that don't give a shit about the team, but only if ur golden boy plays. I want another player in his position. I really do. I will never tire to say so.
The one who should cut the bullshit is u Roman with ur weak excuses of lot of traums in his carrer and many hard injuries, please...gimme a break stop using this shit. Many players get injured and had things in their carrer and they get up and do good again (Ronaldo,R.BaggioShevchenko...) and then there are players that suffer injuries and then get stucked (Prosinescky,DP). I want another player that is influential in big games. A player that gives me the sensation of danger everytime he gets the ball. A player that can dribble players and so on, and not a guy that can only take pk's...so please stop dreaming about his magic touch and the goals when needed, because that is just a mere dream of yours nothing more far of what the reality is.
and a true Juve fan will stand up and scream he sux! he is shit! cuz he cares about the team and not like u.
The one who should cut the bullshit is u Roman with ur weak excuses of lot of traums in his carrer and many hard injuries, please...gimme a break stop using this shit. Many players get injured and had things in their carrer and they get up and do good again (Ronaldo,R.BaggioShevchenko...) and then there are players that suffer injuries and then get stucked (Prosinescky,DP). I want another player that is influential in big games. A player that gives me the sensation of danger everytime he gets the ball. A player that can dribble players and so on, and not a guy that can only take pk's...so please stop dreaming about his magic touch and the goals when needed, because that is just a mere dream of yours nothing more far of what the reality is.
and a true Juve fan will stand up and scream he sux! he is shit! cuz he cares about the team and not like u.
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