Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (12 Viewers)

[Ronn]

If the father of realpolitik says something you gotta at least consider it.
he’s 99 though.

 

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[AFL_ITALIA]

If the father of realpolitik says something you gotta at least consider it.
he’s 99 though.

But then what do they do when they invade for the third time?

 

[Ronn]

But then what do they do when they invade for the third time?

Presumably they get some concessions in return. I’m not a defense or foreign policy expert to be able to tell you exactly what, but something that prohibits future invasions.
Of course I really hope that Russia gets fucked, but the risk of a long stalemate is terrible for food security of a good percentage of world population, so the sooner this shit ends the better.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Presumably they get some concessions in return. I’m not a defense or foreign policy expert to be able to tell you exactly what, but something that prohibits future invasions.
Of course I really hope that Russia gets fucked, but the risk of a long stalemate is terrible for food security of a good percentage of world population, so the sooner this shit ends the better.

I just don't see what could possibly prevent another invasion. An agreement on paper means nothing in real terms.

But yeah, this war isn't good for anyone.

 

[ALC]

Presumably they get some concessions in return. I’m not a defense or foreign policy expert to be able to tell you exactly what, but something that prohibits future invasions.
Of course I really hope that Russia gets fucked, but the risk of a long stalemate is terrible for food security of a good percentage of world population, so the sooner this shit ends the better.

I feel like that was already in place

 

[Ronn]

I feel like that was already in place

What was it?

 

[campionesidd]

What was it?

The Budapest Memorandum. But it was Russia themselves who guaranteed Ukraine’s sovereignty

 

[Strickland]

Russia has a long history of breaking those agreements, with them they're not worth the paper they're written on

 

[kappa96]

The only viable and peaceful solution for the war would be for Russia and its orcs to fuck of from where they came, concede all occupied territory back to Ukraine, pay war damages and defer genocidal murderers to be tried Nuremberg style.

After, national integrity guarantees granted by third party force (NATO or USA).
There is no other peaceful solution in my view.

 

[Ronn]

The Budapest Memorandum. But it was Russia themselves who guaranteed Ukraine’s sovereignty

I’m talking about maybe peace keeping units stationed along the border, sanctions snap back, etc. obviously Russia “assurances” are not worth the paper they’re written on.

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The only viable and peaceful solution for the war would be for Russia and its orcs to fuck of from where they came, concede all occupied territory back to Ukraine, pay war damages and defer genocidal murderers to be tried Nuremberg style.

After, national integrity guarantees granted by third party force (NATO or USA).
There is no other peaceful solution in my view.

That means total defeat for Russia, and hence, it certainly wouldn’t be peaceful.

 

[kappa96]

I’m talking about maybe peace keeping units stationed along the border, sanctions snap back, etc. obviously Russia “assurances” are not worth the paper they’re written on.

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That means total defeat for Russia, and hence, it certainly wouldn’t be peaceful.

A small price to pay considering all those lives they destroyed.

 

[Strickland]

That means total defeat for Russia, and hence, it certainly wouldn’t be peaceful.

Total defeat for Russia would be their schools, hospitals and homes bombed and tens of millions of their civilians fleeing to other countries all over the world. In the scenario described by kappa its still Ukraine who has lost a shitload more in this war compared to Russia, imo Russia in that scenario "loses" nothing, only pays a small price for the consequences of their actions.

 

[Ronn]

Total defeat for Russia would be their schools, hospitals and homes bombed and tens of millions of their civilians fleeing to other countries all over the world. In the scenario described by kappa its still Ukraine who has lost a shitload more in this war compared to Russia, imo Russia in that scenario "loses" nothing, only pays a small price for the consequences of their actions.

I’d be the first to pop a champagne if that happens. I just don’t see how you can call it a peaceful solution since Ukraine needs to defeat Russia in the battlefield for that to happen.

 

[campionesidd]

Total defeat for Russia would be their schools, hospitals and homes bombed and tens of millions of their civilians fleeing to other countries all over the world. In the scenario described by kappa its still Ukraine who has lost a shitload more in this war compared to Russia, imo Russia in that scenario "loses" nothing, only pays a small price for the consequences of their actions.

Yes, but Western aid can help Ukraine rebuild after the war. The world needs to make sure that Russia is a pariah state for decades. If that happens, in the long term this will be disastrous for Russia. Just to give you an example, a chip embargo imposed on Russia will have devastating consequences because Russia has no semiconductor capabilities of their own.

 

[Strickland]

Yes, but Western aid can help Ukraine rebuild after the war. The world needs to make sure that Russia is a pariah state for decades. If that happens, in the long term this will be disastrous for Russia. Just to give you an example, a chip embargo imposed on Russia will have devastating consequences because Russia has no semiconductor capabilities of their own.

Sure, I'm just opposing all the views about how Ukraine getting their territory back would be going "too far" and would mean a "total defeat" for Russia. Its still absolutely, 100% unfair towards Ukraine, they dont get any kind of revenge for all the atrocities Mordor committed and the consequences it all caused.

 

[campionesidd]

Sure, I'm just opposing all the views about how Ukraine getting their territory back would be going "too far" and would mean a "total defeat" for Russia. Its still absolutely, 100% unfair towards Ukraine, they dont get any kind of revenge for all the atrocities Mordor committed and the consequences it all caused.

I think total defeat for Russia would mean failing to achieve any of their objectives, while losing massive military resources and manpower. But yes, Ukraine getting all their territory back, including Crimea, isn’t going too far, I’d say it’s par for the course.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Lets give them Rostov-on-Don, as a treat.

 

[Elvin]

I think total defeat for Russia would mean failing to achieve any of their objectives, while losing massive military resources and manpower. But yes, Ukraine getting all their territory back, including Crimea, isn’t going too far, I’d say it’s par for the course.

There can be no question about that. Not an inch of Ukrainian territory should be given to Russia. Putin and his regime will die soon, but a legal concession would stay forever (i.e. Finland). Just gotta endure a little longer.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Hey tuzers. All good.

Send moar guns, we will do the rest.

Slava Ukraini and Forza Juve.

How are you friend