Paul Pogba (119 Viewers)
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we took a financial risk for Morata. 20M was more than half our budget last summer and we spent it all on one player. why? we obviously think he will turn out great. we arent stupid to spend most of our money on one player if we didnt think he will become worth it in the future. if Morata turns out great, a 30-40M striker, will you call it pure luck? will you say he was unproven and we didnt knew that he will become this good back then? correct me if im wrong but reading your posts i had the impression that you think our best signings were pure luck? thats obviously not true (sorry again if i misunderstood your point). i could agree if it happened once or twice, but after 3, 4, 5 or 6 such signings you have to admit that we know what we are doing. you say Tevez was troublesome but have you thought about the background story? i cant remember him causing any trouble at United, only at City where he wasnt happy for many reasons. if you as a club act professional towards him and respect him then he will do the same. ofcourse, a smart man like Marotta realized that and got a WC striker for 10M. you call it luck, i call it a typical Marotta "i cant believe no one wants this guy, is everyone retarded?" transfer. Vidal was 23 and already one of the best CMs in the BL wanted by Bayern. do you think that one was luck too? you could argue about Pirlo but then you read what Marotta said back then and you see we again knew what we were doing as we were buying Pirlo for a starting role and as one of our biggest signings that summer. some compare other freebies like Anelka, Lucio etc. with Pirlo but fail to realize that those were emergency depth signings when we didnt have any money left and the only thing they had in common with the Pirlo signing was 0€ spent on them. the Pogba transfer was a lot of Raiola as he probably told us to look at him but you say no one knew he was gonna turn out this way. well, i "knew". everyone who saw Pogba only once (be it youth game, friendly, league game etc.) "knew" he was gonna become atleast one of the best in his position. i "knew" it, i doubt guys like Marotta and Paratici who watched him constantly didnt know that. even Buffon once said that after he saw Pogba in training for the 1st time asked himself "are they blind in Manchester?" im telling you all of this simply because i can not accept calling the work Marotta has done so far as pure luck
i also noticed in one of your previous posts that you say Pereyra was unneeded and that Romulo was enough for that role. that is again false. all our summer signings were bought at a time we used the 3-5-2 still. Romulo was bought as a Licht backup, more precisely to replace Isla. we had Isla already last season and we still needed that 5th CM. with Romulo replacing Isla we would still need a 5th CM which is Pereyra.
i also noticed in one of your previous posts that you say Pereyra was unneeded and that Romulo was enough for that role. that is again false. all our summer signings were bought at a time we used the 3-5-2 still. Romulo was bought as a Licht backup, more precisely to replace Isla. we had Isla already last season and we still needed that 5th CM. with Romulo replacing Isla we would still need a 5th CM which is Pereyra.
You managed to misinterpret and misunderstand all my points without an exception. Congrats.
When did i say Tevez signing was luck? Everybody knew Tevez. I knew Tevez all the way back from his Corinthians days. Everyone knew he was quality. And yes, he was a troublemaker. He proved to be at Corinthians, at his national team and at City. So get better informed on this, please. The background story doesn't matter when he was liability to the whole group for whatever reason. The only luck we had in this case is that he changed, became a better man and found a home in Italy. Marotta knew his qualities as much as everyone else.
Again you missed my point where i stated he did some great signings, including Tevez. Vidal was another one.
And don't give me that, please. That Pirlo had quality we always knew but that he was gonna turn out to be our main factor in regaining the pole position in Italy not even the most optimistic of all would have known. He was just another typical Marotta old man signing. Sneijder was gonna about another one, luckily we dodged that bullet. He can say whatever the fuck he wants, there was no way to know Pirlo still had a fire in him. Not the way he turned out, no.
And no, you didn't know. You want to tell you with a straight face that you knew Pogba had the talent to be one of the best players not only in the world but in his generation just by watching him play once or twice? Are you fucking kidding me? Or even that he was gonna be one of the best in his position from watching one match?
You can't expect me to take you serious. Really.
And please stop this "Buffon said this, Marotta said that" it's all the same generic Footballer talk. You read too much into that. Nobody, not Raiola, not Marotta, much less you, knew Pogba was the level he was. Talented? Sure. We can see that from a very young age. In every street in every city in Brazil there will be at least one talent kid. Will he become somebody? There's NO WAY to tell until he becomes a professional and plays at a higher level. So again, BS.
Another misunderstanding, I didn't say that "a player like Pereyra" was unneeded but that he wasn't worth the price. Again, if we needed a 5th CM just for depth, there was no need to throw 17mil in one player. Because let's be honest, the only reason he started getting playing time is when Allegri realized Vidal wasn't in the best of forms and he was trying him for that AM role. And last i remember, every chance he got Romulo played as a RCM, not as Isla's replacement.
I like you, Zizinho. But the bullshit level in your post is far beyond reach, too high.
When did i say Tevez signing was luck? Everybody knew Tevez. I knew Tevez all the way back from his Corinthians days. Everyone knew he was quality. And yes, he was a troublemaker. He proved to be at Corinthians, at his national team and at City. So get better informed on this, please. The background story doesn't matter when he was liability to the whole group for whatever reason. The only luck we had in this case is that he changed, became a better man and found a home in Italy. Marotta knew his qualities as much as everyone else.
Again you missed my point where i stated he did some great signings, including Tevez. Vidal was another one.
And don't give me that, please. That Pirlo had quality we always knew but that he was gonna turn out to be our main factor in regaining the pole position in Italy not even the most optimistic of all would have known. He was just another typical Marotta old man signing. Sneijder was gonna about another one, luckily we dodged that bullet. He can say whatever the fuck he wants, there was no way to know Pirlo still had a fire in him. Not the way he turned out, no.
And no, you didn't know. You want to tell you with a straight face that you knew Pogba had the talent to be one of the best players not only in the world but in his generation just by watching him play once or twice? Are you fucking kidding me? Or even that he was gonna be one of the best in his position from watching one match?
You can't expect me to take you serious. Really. And please stop this "Buffon said this, Marotta said that" it's all the same generic Footballer talk. You read too much into that. Nobody, not Raiola, not Marotta, much less you, knew Pogba was the level he was. Talented? Sure. We can see that from a very young age. In every street in every city in Brazil there will be at least one talent kid. Will he become somebody? There's NO WAY to tell until he becomes a professional and plays at a higher level. So again, BS.
Another misunderstanding, I didn't say that "a player like Pereyra" was unneeded but that he wasn't worth the price. Again, if we needed a 5th CM just for depth, there was no need to throw 17mil in one player. Because let's be honest, the only reason he started getting playing time is when Allegri realized Vidal wasn't in the best of forms and he was trying him for that AM role. And last i remember, every chance he got Romulo played as a RCM, not as Isla's replacement.
I like you, Zizinho. But the bullshit level in your post is far beyond reach, too high.
the Pogba transfer cost around €5m, €4m in agent fees and €1m to previous clubs for training. Juve only paid higher agent fees for Llorente and Tevez. for comparison Pirlo was literally free, only around €1m in agent fees for an established player.
€5m investment on a 19 year old 'free agent' with no professional experience would suggest there were plenty of people who though very highly of Pogba and Juve weren't the only club interested.
€5m investment on a 19 year old 'free agent' with no professional experience would suggest there were plenty of people who though very highly of Pogba and Juve weren't the only club interested.
Nooo, according CrimsonianKing no one knew about Pogba's talent and we simply had luck with his signing.
Also @CrimsonianKing why are you changing your story from that Pogba was gift for Nedved (), to no one knew how actually talented Pogba is.
Also @CrimsonianKing why are you changing your story from that Pogba was gift for Nedved (
), to no one knew how actually talented Pogba is.
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You managed to misinterpret and misunderstand all my points without an exception. Congrats.
When did i say Tevez signing was luck? Everybody knew Tevez. I knew Tevez all the way back from his Corinthians days. Everyone knew he was quality. And yes, he was a troublemaker. He proved to be at Corinthians, at his national team and at City. So get better informed on this, please. The background story doesn't matter when he was liability to the whole group for whatever reason. The only luck we had in this case is that he changed, became a better man and found a home in Italy. Marotta knew his qualities as much as everyone else.
Again you missed my point where i stated he did some great signings, including Tevez. Vidal was another one.
And don't give me that, please. That Pirlo had quality we always knew but that he was gonna turn out to be our main factor in regaining the pole position in Italy not even the most optimistic of all would have known. He was just another typical Marotta old man signing. Sneijder was gonna about another one, luckily we dodged that bullet. He can say whatever the fuck he wants, there was no way to know Pirlo still had a fire in him. Not the way he turned out, no.
And no, you didn't know. You want to tell you with a straight face that you knew Pogba had the talent to be one of the best players not only in the world but in his generation just by watching him play once or twice? Are you fucking kidding me? Or even that he was gonna be one of the best in his position from watching one match? You can't expect me to take you serious. Really.
And please stop this "Buffon said this, Marotta said that" it's all the same generic Footballer talk. You read too much into that. Nobody, not Raiola, not Marotta, much less you, knew Pogba was the level he was. Talented? Sure. We can see that from a very young age. In every street in every city in Brazil there will be at least one talent kid. Will he become somebody? There's NO WAY to tell until he becomes a professional and plays at a higher level. So again, BS.
Another misunderstanding, I didn't say that "a player like Pereyra" was unneeded but that he wasn't worth the price. Again, if we needed a 5th CM just for depth, there was no need to throw 17mil in one player. Because let's be honest, the only reason he started getting playing time is when Allegri realized Vidal wasn't in the best of forms and he was trying him for that AM role. And last i remember, every chance he got Romulo played as a RCM, not as Isla's replacement.
I like you, Zizinho. But the bullshit level in your post is far beyond reach, too high.
When did i say Tevez signing was luck? Everybody knew Tevez. I knew Tevez all the way back from his Corinthians days. Everyone knew he was quality. And yes, he was a troublemaker. He proved to be at Corinthians, at his national team and at City. So get better informed on this, please. The background story doesn't matter when he was liability to the whole group for whatever reason. The only luck we had in this case is that he changed, became a better man and found a home in Italy. Marotta knew his qualities as much as everyone else.
Again you missed my point where i stated he did some great signings, including Tevez. Vidal was another one.
And don't give me that, please. That Pirlo had quality we always knew but that he was gonna turn out to be our main factor in regaining the pole position in Italy not even the most optimistic of all would have known. He was just another typical Marotta old man signing. Sneijder was gonna about another one, luckily we dodged that bullet. He can say whatever the fuck he wants, there was no way to know Pirlo still had a fire in him. Not the way he turned out, no.
And no, you didn't know. You want to tell you with a straight face that you knew Pogba had the talent to be one of the best players not only in the world but in his generation just by watching him play once or twice? Are you fucking kidding me? Or even that he was gonna be one of the best in his position from watching one match?
You can't expect me to take you serious. Really. And please stop this "Buffon said this, Marotta said that" it's all the same generic Footballer talk. You read too much into that. Nobody, not Raiola, not Marotta, much less you, knew Pogba was the level he was. Talented? Sure. We can see that from a very young age. In every street in every city in Brazil there will be at least one talent kid. Will he become somebody? There's NO WAY to tell until he becomes a professional and plays at a higher level. So again, BS.
Another misunderstanding, I didn't say that "a player like Pereyra" was unneeded but that he wasn't worth the price. Again, if we needed a 5th CM just for depth, there was no need to throw 17mil in one player. Because let's be honest, the only reason he started getting playing time is when Allegri realized Vidal wasn't in the best of forms and he was trying him for that AM role. And last i remember, every chance he got Romulo played as a RCM, not as Isla's replacement.
I like you, Zizinho. But the bullshit level in your post is far beyond reach, too high.
Nice impression of JCK.
i didnt read everything. i took a quick look at and responded to the things that catched my eye. you probably had some good points but you had 4-5 long posts and i didnt read everything carefully.
Tevez didnt change, hes still the same. hes very emotional and if you treat him with respect and place him in a healthy surrounding he will repay you and behave. thats what he showed at United and here. if you give him to an idiot coach and surround him with a group of idiots he will express his un-happines the way he did. in other words, he will only make trouble if you give him a reason to, and Marotta knew that when he was signing him. Corinthians was long ago, he was still 20-21, but what i was trying to say is that we were somewhat sure he will act professionally here, otherwise we wouldnt sign him.
sorry about that.
obviously it was impossible to predict that Pirlo will be among the best players in the world in his first season here. what i was saying is, when we signed him, he was presented as a star signing, nothing similar to other "typical Marotta old man signings". we expected him to be our leader in the middle, we gave him the freedom to do so and it paid of. there is a difference in expecting someone to become one of your best players and expecting someone to enter the ballon dor top 5 shortlist.
yes i did. why is it so hard to accept it. there are players that you can tell after you see them once or twice. for example, what was your impression when you 1st saw Neymar? you surely didnt think he will become the player he is now but i guess you expected him to make a great career and become among the best wingers in the world. and Pogba already played 1-2 games for United in EPL, and some in the EL, he wasnt that unknown as many think. but the point i was making is, if i saw something special in him, then guys like Marotta and Paratici probably knew much more as they probably followed him for a longer time. and United wanted to keep him badly towards the end of that season but we already reached an agreement with him and Raiola.
he did play for United. he had 2-3 appearances in the EPL and 3-4 in the cups and the EL. thats what im telling you. and thats without youth games and friendlies. so you had enough chances to watch him at the highest level. but you think there is NO WAY to tell someone can become one of the best in his position, even if his talented. well, i think different. im gonna tell you that Coman will become one of the best in his position. how many times have i watched him? will you say in a few years there is no way i could know that?
Romulo was signed only when we sold Isla. that tells you enough. Pereyra was bought much earlier as the much more needed role, the 5th CM we struggled with the season before. remember last season how much all 4 of our CM played. they were overused which lead to Vidals injury. and Pereyra isnt that expensive. it was a loan with an option of 14M + 1.5M bonuses payable until 2020. and thats a fair price (not excellent) for a player of his qualities in todays market. we cant sign a Vidal or a Pogba every transfer window. if you think we could sign a better player than Pereyra at a better or same price, then tell me who? who was available last summer that we missed out on? we missed Nainggolan the summer before and Guarin in the winter but in the summer i cant remember a better player than Pereyra going for (less than) 14M
Tevez didnt change, hes still the same. hes very emotional and if you treat him with respect and place him in a healthy surrounding he will repay you and behave. thats what he showed at United and here. if you give him to an idiot coach and surround him with a group of idiots he will express his un-happines the way he did. in other words, he will only make trouble if you give him a reason to, and Marotta knew that when he was signing him. Corinthians was long ago, he was still 20-21, but what i was trying to say is that we were somewhat sure he will act professionally here, otherwise we wouldnt sign him.
sorry about that.obviously it was impossible to predict that Pirlo will be among the best players in the world in his first season here. what i was saying is, when we signed him, he was presented as a star signing, nothing similar to other "typical Marotta old man signings". we expected him to be our leader in the middle, we gave him the freedom to do so and it paid of. there is a difference in expecting someone to become one of your best players and expecting someone to enter the ballon dor top 5 shortlist.
And no, you didn't know. You want to tell you with a straight face that you knew Pogba had the talent to be one of the best players not only in the world but in his generation just by watching him play once or twice? Are you $#@!ing kidding me? Or even that he was gonna be one of the best in his position from watching one match? You can't expect me to take you serious. Really.
You can't expect me to take you serious. Really.
he did play for United. he had 2-3 appearances in the EPL and 3-4 in the cups and the EL. thats what im telling you. and thats without youth games and friendlies. so you had enough chances to watch him at the highest level. but you think there is NO WAY to tell someone can become one of the best in his position, even if his talented. well, i think different. im gonna tell you that Coman will become one of the best in his position. how many times have i watched him? will you say in a few years there is no way i could know that?
Romulo was signed only when we sold Isla. that tells you enough. Pereyra was bought much earlier as the much more needed role, the 5th CM we struggled with the season before. remember last season how much all 4 of our CM played. they were overused which lead to Vidals injury. and Pereyra isnt that expensive. it was a loan with an option of 14M + 1.5M bonuses payable until 2020. and thats a fair price (not excellent) for a player of his qualities in todays market. we cant sign a Vidal or a Pogba every transfer window. if you think we could sign a better player than Pereyra at a better or same price, then tell me who? who was available last summer that we missed out on? we missed Nainggolan the summer before and Guarin in the winter but in the summer i cant remember a better player than Pereyra going for (less than) 14M
But here's the thing: I think it's fair to say that no other club has found so many incredible bargains than we have over the past ~3 years. No one. Pogba, Vidal, Tevez, Llorente, Barzagli, even Lichtsteiner, perhaps Coman. I'm 100% certain, that if those around here who constantly complain about our Mercatos were fans of virtually any other team on the globe, they'd point to those deals and ask, why their club couldn't make such amazing bargains.
Have there been transfers that you can crisize? Yes, of course. But to downright slaughter our Mercatos and Marotta like some in here do (not really referring to you here), is completely uncalled for.
Have there been transfers that you can crisize? Yes, of course. But to downright slaughter our Mercatos and Marotta like some in here do (not really referring to you here), is completely uncalled for.