Nicolò Fagioli (222 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mark
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I love the guy, but I agree. Especially in todays world where u can just gamble from ur home and its really impossible to control it. I know few stories of players who did get out of it in the past, but for them the biggest cure was moving out to the small ass village team where there is no casinos and betting places. This is not possible in todays world as u can just do this online.
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I guess we can only be hopefull that Miretti has much better mentality and he finally starts to collect some goals and assists.
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I guess we can only be hopefull that Miretti has much better mentality and he finally starts to collect some goals and assists.
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People here are hating on him for being a rat, I understand where that is coming from. I am going to be hated here for it but, Fagioli or whoever it is... I love rats and whistleblowers. In the strive for a human society that is equal and fair the whistleblowers and rats are essential. Some people are opportunistic and operate in the gray zones or do bad things that may not get caught unless someone rat them out. These rats may be opportunistic too, as some argue concerning Fagioli, but I don't care about that as long as the wrongdoing comes to light. People like Snowden and Fagioli may be seen as disloyal but loyalty is overrated. I don't want loyalty because it doesn't really contribute to anything positive. Loyalty only brings followers with sheep-like behavior and either you are in or you are out. If you are out, you are competition or danger. If you are in you protect your (groups) behaviors and legitimize wrongdoings. You can be two good human beings but still fight for different shepherds, which makes no sense to me.
I want engagement, commitment and so forth but not without second thoughts. I am not putting Fagioli on a pedestal here and no one should, the comparison with Snowden is only for exaggeration to get my point across even if it is unfair to do so. But hating on him for being a rat is the wrong thing for being upset about. Everything else you are upset about here I agree with.
I want engagement, commitment and so forth but not without second thoughts. I am not putting Fagioli on a pedestal here and no one should, the comparison with Snowden is only for exaggeration to get my point across even if it is unfair to do so. But hating on him for being a rat is the wrong thing for being upset about. Everything else you are upset about here I agree with.
There is a difference between a rat and a whistleblower.
Fagioli's entire incentive to rat has nothing to do with society. He personally did something wrong and wants to get off easy so he rats out someone else. If he wasn't personally prosecuted, he'd never have come forward with that information. But now, because he is prosecuted himself, he chooses to point to a friend rather than take personal responsability. I don't hate him though. I just think it's another thing he did wrong.
Whistleblowing and ratting on your friends, key word here is friends, to save your skin are 2 completely different things. The latter is absolutely disgusting behavior that warrants a healthy dose of scorn and humiliation. Breaking convenants is ignoble. So fuck him for both being a degenerate and also a bitch who in my estimate,and rightfully so, will never be accepted or respected in a locker room again.
I agree with it being two very different things.
I think Fagioli might be accepted again, but not in this locker room and not right now. He clearly needs a lot of growing to do as a person. And personally, I might be able to play football with him, but I wouldn't trust him ever again. Given the fact Tonali is by far the better player, it would seem Fagioli's Italy career is over now too.
I think Fagioli might be accepted again, but not in this locker room and not right now. He clearly needs a lot of growing to do as a person. And personally, I might be able to play football with him, but I wouldn't trust him ever again. Given the fact Tonali is by far the better player, it would seem Fagioli's Italy career is over now too.
I don't need to be a fan of the opportunist but I can be glad with the outcome from the ratting out. And yes, I always have to understand the context and deliberation behind the ratting.
It has nothing to do with society but minor events and activities can have societal impact. And if we only look at major implications, we will never catch the minor. If we catch minor activities that does not seem to have implications for society, then some of the major implication may not even come to be. Fagiolis' reasoning for ratting out is opportunistic and we can dislike the reasons, but we should else embrace the notion of ratting or whistleblowing. We tend to look down on both but if we do so, we also make it more challenging to rat or whistleblow. I am mad at him too, so I hope no one confuses my intentions here (you don't seem to, I am speaking generally now).
Let's exaggerate it a lot now. Let's say your friend murder someone. Is your loyalty more important than ratting him out? To me, like I wrote earlier, loyalty is overrated. And where do you draw the line? Stealing a cookie in a five star hotel and ratting out on the friend for it? Stealing a cookie from a struggling small private business owner? Tax fraud? Violence at home? You have to draw a line somewhere and from our personal perspective all people are not equally valuable. So depending on context and so on we accept certain behaviors from some people. "He's just like that", the dude might generate a track-record over time.
No one is a saint and I am oversimplifying things. To me this is all really tricky, loyalty or not, it's still hard to draw a line. Where I draw the line for my wife is different than for my friend, my neighbor or someone I am only acquainted to or a complete stranger. Loyalty may be noble, but maybe not the way moving forward if we want to collectively progress our society.
If someone ratted me out I would be very much upset with that person, obviously. But if it leads to a better version of me, maybe I will cope with it. So far in my life, whenever I have misbehaved someone has called me out on it and I have tried to change and I believe I improve as a person every year. I am not a good person, but a better person than I was five, ten, twenty, and so on, years ago. Hence, I am not only upset with Fagioli but also on those in his environment that cared for him but did not correct him. If they did but Fagioli just is that stupid then, really, really, shame on him. Shame on him either way, but not so much for the ratting out part.
It has nothing to do with society but minor events and activities can have societal impact. And if we only look at major implications, we will never catch the minor. If we catch minor activities that does not seem to have implications for society, then some of the major implication may not even come to be. Fagiolis' reasoning for ratting out is opportunistic and we can dislike the reasons, but we should else embrace the notion of ratting or whistleblowing. We tend to look down on both but if we do so, we also make it more challenging to rat or whistleblow. I am mad at him too, so I hope no one confuses my intentions here (you don't seem to, I am speaking generally now).
Let's exaggerate it a lot now. Let's say your friend murder someone. Is your loyalty more important than ratting him out? To me, like I wrote earlier, loyalty is overrated. And where do you draw the line? Stealing a cookie in a five star hotel and ratting out on the friend for it? Stealing a cookie from a struggling small private business owner? Tax fraud? Violence at home? You have to draw a line somewhere and from our personal perspective all people are not equally valuable. So depending on context and so on we accept certain behaviors from some people. "He's just like that", the dude might generate a track-record over time.
No one is a saint and I am oversimplifying things. To me this is all really tricky, loyalty or not, it's still hard to draw a line. Where I draw the line for my wife is different than for my friend, my neighbor or someone I am only acquainted to or a complete stranger. Loyalty may be noble, but maybe not the way moving forward if we want to collectively progress our society.
If someone ratted me out I would be very much upset with that person, obviously. But if it leads to a better version of me, maybe I will cope with it. So far in my life, whenever I have misbehaved someone has called me out on it and I have tried to change and I believe I improve as a person every year. I am not a good person, but a better person than I was five, ten, twenty, and so on, years ago. Hence, I am not only upset with Fagioli but also on those in his environment that cared for him but did not correct him. If they did but Fagioli just is that stupid then, really, really, shame on him. Shame on him either way, but not so much for the ratting out part.
I'd be delighted if we helped Fagioli with his problem. Addicts of all kinds need treatment and support and if he can get that through our club that's even better - it seems like the players seem to like each other, and being surrounded by good friends is often crucial with things like this.
At the same time though, he's just not good enough on the pitch to be worth this kind of hassle imo
At the same time though, he's just not good enough on the pitch to be worth this kind of hassle imo
OK so he's came clean but can anyone tell me what happens to his debt to the betting ring?
He can't pay them back due to his account be monitored and they are hardly going to let it slide.
Also what happens if his confessions leads to the arrest of a member this gang? Surely there will be retribution as they would want to send a message to others that owe them money no?
He can't pay them back due to his account be monitored and they are hardly going to let it slide.
Also what happens if his confessions leads to the arrest of a member this gang? Surely there will be retribution as they would want to send a message to others that owe them money no?
But it's not up to him to tell authorities that someone else, especially someone who is supposed to be his friend, did something wrong.
Unless he is trying to save his own ass. Let the authorities find the dirt on Tonali and Zaniolo. Don't fucking hand it to them on a silver platter.
Look, I hope the young man gets the help he needs. Addiction of any kind can be awful. This is coming from a recovering one.
But you have to be willing and mature enough to take full responsibility for your own actions. That is a major part of recovery. Getting off easy and taking a shortcut is never the best road to travel
Unless he is trying to save his own ass. Let the authorities find the dirt on Tonali and Zaniolo. Don't fucking hand it to them on a silver platter.
Look, I hope the young man gets the help he needs. Addiction of any kind can be awful. This is coming from a recovering one.
But you have to be willing and mature enough to take full responsibility for your own actions. That is a major part of recovery. Getting off easy and taking a shortcut is never the best road to travel