He tanked his mayoral campaign so hard. If he doesn't stop shooting himself in the foot then I can't see anything he does going far.
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'Murica! (224 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fake Melo
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He's like a virus that keeps mutating until he finds a host.
I'd agree with you except for that fact that the definition of colonialism has changed in modern times. For the U.S. it's considered economic or policy, and the CIA will gun down your leader's ass if he doesn't abide.
It's self-interest in a different flavor, really. But I think it's a stretch to call it benevolent just because they have less of a history of trying to take over foreign countries and incorporate them in their borders. That's how the old school used to handle hegemony.
I'd agree with you except for that fact that the definition of colonialism has changed in modern times. For the U.S. it's considered economic or policy, and the CIA will gun down your leader's ass if he doesn't abide.
It's self-interest in a different flavor, really. But I think it's a stretch to call it benevolent just because they have less of a history of trying to take over foreign countries and incorporate them in their borders. That's how the old school used to handle hegemony.
he’ll be 89 in 2022We're only talking modern? I thought it was in history.
The tricky thing here is most people have pretty much next to zero awareness of history. Humans always want to believe they are witnessing the GOAT and nothing else before comes close. It's kind of like the same logic behind why so many people overdo standing ovations at performances... they want to believe they are witnessing unique history to make themselves feel more special.
I mean, say what you will about the evils of colonialism or the Opium Wars. But the UK's legacy includes all the Commonwealth nations (Canada, New Zealand, Australia, etc.), Singapore, etc.... all of which have become quite free and prosperous in their own right (and Hong Kong until China flipped it once the UK handed it over.). Governance, institutions, railways... yes, colonial, but also left to the benefit of the conquered until ultimately handed over to self-rule. Of course, one person's "civilizing another people" is another person's "colonialist oppression"... but isn't that what the US attempted (and failed) to achieve in Afghanistan, really?
But to clean out the historical cobwebs a little, just take some of the old empires of Persia. Cyrus the Great was infamously benevolent. The guy even created the first known declaration of human rights. The UN has a translation of it on the wall of its headquarters.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/cyrus-the-great
There's also the Sasanian Empire in Persia. They granted full religious freedom and their own choices of government, and they abolished chattel slavery (something the US took long to adopt, and something the US still doesn't completely adhere to by allowing minimum wage violations).
And in India there was Ashoka the Great of the Mauyran Empire. Though he started out ruthless, the horrors of the Kalinga War converted him to Buddhism and he renounced war, introduced a pan-Indian political identity, encouraged social piety in governance (technically the cosmic law of dhamma, famed for all those Vipassana meditators today), and upheld laws for the common people and not just the wealthy and nobility. One of the biggest do-gooder non-profits in the world is named after him.
There are plenty of good examples in history.
The tricky thing here is most people have pretty much next to zero awareness of history. Humans always want to believe they are witnessing the GOAT and nothing else before comes close. It's kind of like the same logic behind why so many people overdo standing ovations at performances... they want to believe they are witnessing unique history to make themselves feel more special.
I mean, say what you will about the evils of colonialism or the Opium Wars. But the UK's legacy includes all the Commonwealth nations (Canada, New Zealand, Australia, etc.), Singapore, etc.... all of which have become quite free and prosperous in their own right (and Hong Kong until China flipped it once the UK handed it over.). Governance, institutions, railways... yes, colonial, but also left to the benefit of the conquered until ultimately handed over to self-rule. Of course, one person's "civilizing another people" is another person's "colonialist oppression"... but isn't that what the US attempted (and failed) to achieve in Afghanistan, really?
But to clean out the historical cobwebs a little, just take some of the old empires of Persia. Cyrus the Great was infamously benevolent. The guy even created the first known declaration of human rights. The UN has a translation of it on the wall of its headquarters.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/cyrus-the-great
There's also the Sasanian Empire in Persia. They granted full religious freedom and their own choices of government, and they abolished chattel slavery (something the US took long to adopt, and something the US still doesn't completely adhere to by allowing minimum wage violations).
And in India there was Ashoka the Great of the Mauyran Empire. Though he started out ruthless, the horrors of the Kalinga War converted him to Buddhism and he renounced war, introduced a pan-Indian political identity, encouraged social piety in governance (technically the cosmic law of dhamma, famed for all those Vipassana meditators today), and upheld laws for the common people and not just the wealthy and nobility. One of the biggest do-gooder non-profits in the world is named after him.
There are plenty of good examples in history.
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The default state of humans is poverty and i still don't see a better place to pull yourself out of it than the US, moreover constantly torpedoeing your life with the obvious wrong choices doesn't make you a slave. There's always a price to pay.
I'll go as far as saying that imo America is the last bastion of freedom, thanks to the 2nd amendment. Other populations are batoned into submission to the whims of politicians and bureaucrats, now that's slavery.
I'll go as far as saying that imo America is the last bastion of freedom, thanks to the 2nd amendment. Other populations are batoned into submission to the whims of politicians and bureaucrats, now that's slavery.
I hear where you're coming from. But I think "freedom" is a slippery word. People tend to define freedom very differently from each other, even in the same neighborhood. Just between conservatives and liberals in the U.S., you might say freedom means more to the former as the private enjoyment of one's life and goods and the latter defines freedom more as making government accountable to the people. One if not the only universal freedom that everyone can agree upon in the U.S. is that you have the freedom to make money pretty much anyway that's legal.
One person's desired freedom of can be another person's freedom from. I may live in a country where I can't arm myself up with as many weapons as I want, but there just ain't no way a woman can feel anywhere near as safe walking the city streets at night in the U.S. compared to here.
And regardless of how much you might dislike their politics or even cultural values, you can't discount how China managed to lift about 2-3x U.S. populations out of poverty in just the past generation. If anything, that could be an argument that it's more than just poverty aversion that's at stake.
One person's desired freedom of can be another person's freedom from. I may live in a country where I can't arm myself up with as many weapons as I want, but there just ain't no way a woman can feel anywhere near as safe walking the city streets at night in the U.S. compared to here.
And regardless of how much you might dislike their politics or even cultural values, you can't discount how China managed to lift about 2-3x U.S. populations out of poverty in just the past generation. If anything, that could be an argument that it's more than just poverty aversion that's at stake.
I hear where you're coming from. But I think "freedom" is a slippery word. People tend to define freedom very differently from each other, even in the same neighborhood. Just between conservatives and liberals in the U.S., you might say freedom means more to the former as the private enjoyment of one's life and goods and the latter defines freedom more as making government accountable to the people. One if not the only universal freedom that everyone can agree upon in the U.S. is that you have the freedom to make money pretty much anyway that's legal.
One person's desired freedom of can be another person's freedom from. I may live in a country where I can't arm myself up with as many weapons as I want, but there just ain't no way a woman can feel anywhere near as safe walking the city streets at night in the U.S. compared to here.
And regardless of how much you might dislike their politics or even cultural values, you can't discount how China managed to lift about 2-3x U.S. populations out of poverty in just the past generation. If anything, that could be an argument that it's more than just poverty aversion that's at stake.
One person's desired freedom of can be another person's freedom from. I may live in a country where I can't arm myself up with as many weapons as I want, but there just ain't no way a woman can feel anywhere near as safe walking the city streets at night in the U.S. compared to here.
And regardless of how much you might dislike their politics or even cultural values, you can't discount how China managed to lift about 2-3x U.S. populations out of poverty in just the past generation. If anything, that could be an argument that it's more than just poverty aversion that's at stake.
First of all, thanks for the patience and effort you always put into your replies, you are a good friend.
Now, onto freedom, i think the concept of freedom from is just one of those soviet type euphemism "yuri, that's not lobotomy, we just freed a part of your brain from your body so youd become a more docile tovarich". It all goes back to price to pay. There's a price to pay for gaining your freedom, and another for maintaining it.
As for china, yeah that's that evil capitalism at play for you, and despite my aversion to it, you have to admit that Chinese culture is one of the oldest for a reason, it breeds success in its own way. Just look at at the Chinese diaspora, everywhere they go they thrive.
Of course, my intellectual brother! 
Not that I take you for an art f*#, but that Yuri quote reminds me of a famous Jenny Holzer lit sign piece:
And tots on the Chinese diaspora. I remember the first time I went to China in 2001. The one word I could use to describe the whole culture and experience was "reproduction".
Not that I take you for an art f*#, but that Yuri quote reminds me of a famous Jenny Holzer lit sign piece:
And tots on the Chinese diaspora. I remember the first time I went to China in 2001. The one word I could use to describe the whole culture and experience was "reproduction".
I think that's really the blind spot in American exported democracy politics. It's the complete cluelessness about what's socially on the ground, so there's this incredulous disbelief that Afghanis would reject the American Democracy Happy Meal presented to them.
When your problems are corrupt political officials and people who don't eat pork and yet happily pork dancing boys, that Happy Meal is a shiite sandwich.
It's similar mechanics to why Duterte is so popular among Pinoys. All the other options weren't doing enough to deal with the problem of embedded drug criminals.
When your problems are corrupt political officials and people who don't eat pork and yet happily pork dancing boys, that Happy Meal is a shiite sandwich.
It's similar mechanics to why Duterte is so popular among Pinoys. All the other options weren't doing enough to deal with the problem of embedded drug criminals.
