Apr 19, 2007
3,029
Allegri was great but he was not a coach that wanted to control the game with the ball ALL THE TIME. Sarri might not either though. I do think Sarris style is ,ore proactive offensively and relies less on our defensive shape to produce situations for us to get to goal. Sarri can also be picked apart by having his press bypassed and not work effectively.

There was a good article I read a while back about the debate of possession vs position. Basically every coach wants to control certain parts of the game. Having possession doesnt have any impact on the game statistically until its over 63% by itself. Saying that it relies on having possession in meaningful areas of the pitch. and also controlling where the other team has their possesion.

Thinking off my head on the Inter game. They had more possesion than we did statistically but where was their possesion? Was it in our 3rd of the field with good link up around the box leading to chances? I think our possession was much more meaningful.

Bringing this back to Sarri vs Allegri- I think both of them had ideas about how to limit meaningful possesion while also having ideas about creating chances for ourselves.
If Sarri can control the game the way his style wants we should have a lot of possesion in meaningful areas and have a boatload of chances eventually.
Allegri when he controlled the game perfectly gave almost nothing away and controlled not only the pace of the game but also where he allowed you to play and that led to chances and Danger for us.

So I dont think its wrong to say Allegri was more defensive or that Sarri is more offensive but its incorrect to say Sarri is ok with a completely open game with loads of chances from both sides where as Allegri wanted 3 chances all game.
 

s4tch

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contributor
Mar 23, 2015
10,197
...Nothing in football is as powerful as holding the ball and controlling the game. It's the modern reality of football, like it or not. ...
i don't mind your redundant allegri hate too much, but you're really stuck in 2009.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...hampions-League-2018-2019-Tottenham-Liverpool - last year's cl final. spurs won the possession game by quite a margin (65%-36%), they had more shots, a lot more on target, more passes, a lot better pass succession, etc. a typical example of a team controlling the game but losing it ultimately.

other prime examples of high profile games where the team won your most powerful discipline in football, yet the result was infavorable for them:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...hampions-League-2018-2019-Liverpool-Barcelona - barcelona had more possession, 57%-43%. nevermind that they lost 4-0.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2018-2019-Tottenham-Manchester-City - 59-41 possession to city, spurs won 1-0
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1368025/Live/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2018-2019-Ajax-Juventus - ajax had 60% of possession, 19 shots to 7, only managed a draw
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ions-League-2018-2019-Bayern-Munich-Liverpool - liverpool at it once again, being "dominated" by numbers. klopp doesn't give a shit about possession. i guess you consider him a modern coach.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...A-Champions-League-2018-2019-Real-Madrid-Ajax - the match that put ajax back on the map. they had 43% of possession.

from the previous cl edition:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Bayern-Munich and https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Bayern-Munich-Real-Madrid - bayern with 60% during both legs; they didn't win either of these matches despite "controlling" the game
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1274958/Live/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2017-2018-Roma-Barcelona - roma let barcelona do their usual passing and killed them with clinical finishing
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Manchester-City-Liverpool and https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Liverpool-Manchester-City - two typical klopp games (and guardiola games too, while we're at it)

etc. there are plenty of similar matches. i ignored those matches where the possession was pretty even, but there are even more of these - and i only checked some matches from the last 2 season's knockout stage.

i bet you'll love these too:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...Champions-League-2016-2017-Juventus-Barcelona haha, we had 32% of the possession and won 3-0.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...Champions-League-2016-2017-Napoli-Real-Madrid sarri 's napoli winning the possession battle against real, losing the match by quite a margin despite having the lead at halftime.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1225284/Live/Italy-Serie-A-2017-2018-Napoli-Juventus - the winning team preferred to win over the control here too

possession nowadays is not that important. of course when there's a huge difference between the technical level of two teams, it usually means that the better team will automatically have the ball more, too. but l'art pour l'art possession was fancy in '09 for the last time. in '10 mourinho showed that possession is useless when you can't score and you're vulnerable to counters. mourinho never tried to get the ball away from barcelona or break their midfield with passing; he simply made his players cross the ball over the barcelona midfield. real's treble winning team was a fairly pragmatic one that relied on ramos', benzema's and casemiro's physical presence, modric's and kroos' passing game, and ronaldo's finishing; possession wasn't a priority for them either. and an other new flavor: high pressing, clinical finishing and a great keeper made liverpool a cl winner.
 
Aug 8, 2006
60,956
  • Dru

    Dru

i don't mind your redundant allegri hate too much, but you're really stuck in 2009.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...hampions-League-2018-2019-Tottenham-Liverpool - last year's cl final. spurs won the possession game by quite a margin (65%-36%), they had more shots, a lot more on target, more passes, a lot better pass succession, etc. a typical example of a team controlling the game but losing it ultimately.

other prime examples of high profile games where the team won your most powerful discipline in football, yet the result was infavorable for them:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...hampions-League-2018-2019-Liverpool-Barcelona - barcelona had more possession, 57%-43%. nevermind that they lost 4-0.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2018-2019-Tottenham-Manchester-City - 59-41 possession to city, spurs won 1-0
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1368025/Live/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2018-2019-Ajax-Juventus - ajax had 60% of possession, 19 shots to 7, only managed a draw
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ions-League-2018-2019-Bayern-Munich-Liverpool - liverpool at it once again, being "dominated" by numbers. klopp doesn't give a shit about possession. i guess you consider him a modern coach.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...A-Champions-League-2018-2019-Real-Madrid-Ajax - the match that put ajax back on the map. they had 43% of possession.

from the previous cl edition:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Bayern-Munich and https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Bayern-Munich-Real-Madrid - bayern with 60% during both legs; they didn't win either of these matches despite "controlling" the game
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1274958/Live/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2017-2018-Roma-Barcelona - roma let barcelona do their usual passing and killed them with clinical finishing
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Manchester-City-Liverpool and https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Liverpool-Manchester-City - two typical klopp games (and guardiola games too, while we're at it)

etc. there are plenty of similar matches. i ignored those matches where the possession was pretty even, but there are even more of these - and i only checked some matches from the last 2 season's knockout stage.

i bet you'll love these too:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...Champions-League-2016-2017-Juventus-Barcelona haha, we had 32% of the possession and won 3-0.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...Champions-League-2016-2017-Napoli-Real-Madrid sarri 's napoli winning the possession battle against real, losing the match by quite a margin despite having the lead at halftime.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1225284/Live/Italy-Serie-A-2017-2018-Napoli-Juventus - the winning team preferred to win over the control here too

possession nowadays is not that important. of course when there's a huge difference between the technical level of two teams, it usually means that the better team will automatically have the ball more, too. but l'art pour l'art possession was fancy in '09 for the last time. in '10 mourinho showed that possession is useless when you can't score and you're vulnerable to counters. mourinho never tried to get the ball away from barcelona or break their midfield with passing; he simply made his players cross the ball over the barcelona midfield. real's treble winning team was a fairly pragmatic one that relied on ramos', benzema's and casemiro's physical presence, modric's and kroos' passing game, and ronaldo's finishing; possession wasn't a priority for them either. and an other new flavor: high pressing, clinical finishing and a great keeper made liverpool a cl winner.
But none of that matters
 
Feb 9, 2013
28,030
i don't mind your redundant allegri hate too much, but you're really stuck in 2009.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...hampions-League-2018-2019-Tottenham-Liverpool - last year's cl final. spurs won the possession game by quite a margin (65%-36%), they had more shots, a lot more on target, more passes, a lot better pass succession, etc. a typical example of a team controlling the game but losing it ultimately.

other prime examples of high profile games where the team won your most powerful discipline in football, yet the result was infavorable for them:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...hampions-League-2018-2019-Liverpool-Barcelona - barcelona had more possession, 57%-43%. nevermind that they lost 4-0.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2018-2019-Tottenham-Manchester-City - 59-41 possession to city, spurs won 1-0
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1368025/Live/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2018-2019-Ajax-Juventus - ajax had 60% of possession, 19 shots to 7, only managed a draw
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ions-League-2018-2019-Bayern-Munich-Liverpool - liverpool at it once again, being "dominated" by numbers. klopp doesn't give a shit about possession. i guess you consider him a modern coach.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...A-Champions-League-2018-2019-Real-Madrid-Ajax - the match that put ajax back on the map. they had 43% of possession.

from the previous cl edition:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Bayern-Munich and https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Bayern-Munich-Real-Madrid - bayern with 60% during both legs; they didn't win either of these matches despite "controlling" the game
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1274958/Live/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2017-2018-Roma-Barcelona - roma let barcelona do their usual passing and killed them with clinical finishing
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Manchester-City-Liverpool and https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Liverpool-Manchester-City - two typical klopp games (and guardiola games too, while we're at it)

etc. there are plenty of similar matches. i ignored those matches where the possession was pretty even, but there are even more of these - and i only checked some matches from the last 2 season's knockout stage.

i bet you'll love these too:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...Champions-League-2016-2017-Juventus-Barcelona haha, we had 32% of the possession and won 3-0.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...Champions-League-2016-2017-Napoli-Real-Madrid sarri 's napoli winning the possession battle against real, losing the match by quite a margin despite having the lead at halftime.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1225284/Live/Italy-Serie-A-2017-2018-Napoli-Juventus - the winning team preferred to win over the control here too

possession nowadays is not that important. of course when there's a huge difference between the technical level of two teams, it usually means that the better team will automatically have the ball more, too. but l'art pour l'art possession was fancy in '09 for the last time. in '10 mourinho showed that possession is useless when you can't score and you're vulnerable to counters. mourinho never tried to get the ball away from barcelona or break their midfield with passing; he simply made his players cross the ball over the barcelona midfield. real's treble winning team was a fairly pragmatic one that relied on ramos', benzema's and casemiro's physical presence, modric's and kroos' passing game, and ronaldo's finishing; possession wasn't a priority for them either. and an other new flavor: high pressing, clinical finishing and a great keeper made liverpool a cl winner.
:tup:
When we beat Spurs 2-1 in Rof16 in 2018, the whiners here said it was an appalling, embarrassing display in which we were dominated and deserved to lose because we didn’t take the game to them. Possession was 54-46% for Spurs.

When Klopp beats them while getting out possessed 65-35%, and allowing Spurs to dominate the ball, the same whiners point to it as proof of his vast superiority over Max, and hail him as some kind of genius for using exactly the tactics Allegri used to beat that Spurs team a year prior.

:lol:
 
Apr 25, 2013
4,019
It was already hilarious when the anti-Sarri/100m Pjanic mental imps started panicking after Leverkusen game.

Brutto and Satch claimed they were right all along with Satch admonishing others for bringing up Allegri all the time in a weird hypnosis attempt. After Hustini pointed out same people knee-jerked and wanted Allegri fired at this time in his 2nd season and I said I may quote them, brutto and PI started panicking. :lol:

And now I see that Inter result delivered as promised with the congeners. This is exceptionally high level of entertainment lol.

And we're only in early Oct.
 

Juventinoo

Ertuğrul Oğlu Osman
Oct 20, 2004
1,987
Just want to add something to the mix,

Allegri was a coach who adapts his tactics ( game plan, not formation) based on opponents, he is always trying to nullifying or containing other teams danger , and once the ball with us, lets send it forward ...

Last year this method is exposed as hell because our midfield issues or , our midfielders are not trained well to carry the ball forawrd , especially pjanic

This approach may made us score more sometimes , but i hate it ... containing others and send the ball away ...

Sarri meanwhile, is just forcing other teams to adapt to us ...he is like, this is our game and dont give damn shit about your tactics , but of course without forgetting to contain opponents like our match with Inter ...

Sarri take risk , Allegri play safe
Sarri enjoy football, Allegri enjoy result

For me Allegri is a master tactic intelligence and his tactics in the expense of the play ...Sarri , currently, balancing both tactics and the play ...
 

s4tch

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contributor
Mar 23, 2015
10,197
It was already hilarious when the anti-Sarri/100m Pjanic mental imps started panicking after Leverkusen game.

Brutto and Satch claimed they were right all along with Satch admonishing others for bringing up Allegri all the time in a weird hypnosis attempt. After Hustini pointed out same people knee-jerked and wanted Allegri fired at this time in his 2nd season and I said I may quote them, brutto and PI started panicking. :lol:

And now I see that Inter result delivered as promised with the congeners. This is exceptionally high level of entertainment lol.

And we're only in early Oct.
ah, the "matuidi is our best midfielder" guy. your input is always welcome.

did you get your anti-rabies vaccine in time?
 
Jan 30, 2004
15,087
Just want to add something to the mix,

Allegri was a coach who adapts his tactics ( game plan, not formation) based on opponents, he is always trying to nullifying or containing other teams danger , and once the ball with us, lets send it forward ...

Last year this method is exposed as hell because our midfield issues or , our midfielders are not trained well to carry the ball forawrd , especially pjanic

This approach may made us score more sometimes , but i hate it ... containing others and send the ball away ...

Sarri meanwhile, is just forcing other teams to adapt to us ...he is like, this is our game and dont give damn shit about your tactics , but of course without forgetting to contain opponents like our match with Inter ...

Sarri take risk , Allegri play safe
Sarri enjoy football, Allegri enjoy result

For me Allegri is a master tactic intelligence and his tactics in the expense of the play ...Sarri , currently, balancing both tactics and the play ...
Isn't great though to see your team outsmart the other team?

For me that is a part of Juve's identity the past decades.
 
Jun 6, 2015
7,604
It was already hilarious when the anti-Sarri/100m Pjanic mental imps started panicking after Leverkusen game.

Brutto and Satch claimed they were right all along with Satch admonishing others for bringing up Allegri all the time in a weird hypnosis attempt. After Hustini pointed out same people knee-jerked and wanted Allegri fired at this time in his 2nd season and I said I may quote them, brutto and PI started panicking. :lol:

And now I see that Inter result delivered as promised with the congeners. This is exceptionally high level of entertainment lol.

And we're only in early Oct.
My weird little forum archnemesis :heart:

smbcadhominem.png
 
Last edited:
Apr 16, 2017
5,338
Juventus' players in Serie A so far this season 2019/20:

Most goals - Cristiano (3)
Most Assists - Costa (2)
Most shots - Cristiano (36)
Most passes - Pjanic (525)
Most key passes - Cris, Higuain, Sandro, Matuidi (9)
Most dribbles - Dybala (12)
Most Aerials - Bonucci (31)
Most tackles - Matuidi (13)
Most interceptions - Pjanic (10)
Most clearances - De Ligt (21)
Most shots blocked - Bonucci (8)
Most unsuccessful touches - Higuain (12)
Most Possesion lost - Bernardeschi (8)

️ #juventus @forzajuve_2017
 
Jan 16, 2013
19,495
Juventus' players in Serie A so far this season 2019/20:

Most goals - Cristiano (3)
Most Assists - Costa (2)
Most shots - Cristiano (36)
Most passes - Pjanic (525)
Most key passes - Cris, Higuain, Sandro, Matuidi (9)
Most dribbles - Dybala (12)
Most Aerials - Bonucci (31)
Most tackles - Matuidi (13)
Most interceptions - Pjanic (10)
Most clearances - De Ligt (21)
Most shots blocked - Bonucci (8)
Most unsuccessful touches - Higuain (12)
Most Possesion lost - Bernardeschi (8)

️ #juventus @forzajuve_2017
And people talk shit about Matuidi... I mean I get that he’s a bit dumb and will brain fart here and there but at the moment he’s an important player
 

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