Nov 25, 2005
29,495
Super attacking mastermind Maurizio Sarri goals per game in his career: 1.58
Super defensive-only-individual-quality Allegri: 1.77

They both started managing in 04/05, they both managed in lower leagues until this decade and Sarri is on his 3rd bigger team to Allegri's 2.

Allegri goals per game in 16/17 when we played with 3 strikers + Cuadrado: 2.01. Klopp at Liverpool for comparison: 2.14. But not offensive I guess.
Allegri managed Milan and Juve -- both domestic super powers at the time.
 

DAiDEViL

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2015
39,129
Super attacking mastermind Maurizio Sarri goals per game in his career: 1.58
Super defensive-only-individual-quality Allegri: 1.77

They both started managing in 04/05, they both managed in lower leagues until this decade and Sarri is on his 3rd bigger team to Allegri's 2.

Allegri goals per game in 16/17 when we played with 3 strikers + Cuadrado: 2.01. Klopp at Liverpool for comparison: 2.14. But not offensive I guess.
:sorryball:
 

IlCapitano

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2012
1,300
Allegri managed Milan and Juve -- both domestic super powers at the time.
Milan was anything but a superpower when Allegri went there, but sure. The only players who played any meaningful football post Milan from that team were Silva and Ibra. Others were a mix of italian mediocrity, fallen superstars and retirement material. Sarri's Napoli is better by a lot (because of him too ofc).
 

s4tch

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contributor
Mar 23, 2015
10,237
Allegri managed Milan and Juve -- both domestic super powers at the time.
dude, it's such a pointless argument. sarri managed napoli for 3 years, the go-to team if you want to see some attacking footie, and the only team besides juventus that never dropped out of the top3 highest scoring teams since our new winning cycle started. so what.

these were the top3 highest scoring teams (and their league position) for the last 8 championships:

1.png


btw in this period, the highest scoring team only won the league twice. the team with the best defense won it always.

i also reiterated a couple of times that i truly hope sarri learned from his career. i mean his most attacking season with napoli (16-17, the one when higuain scored like 36 in 35 appearances) was his worst one in terms of defensive record and final ranking too.

bottom line: i don't care about the attacking record of my team. especially pointless to consider this when it comes to the cl. and yes, leave allegri alone for now. we can take a dig at him in case sarri wins more than max. good luck to maurice.
 

Nenz

Senior Member
Apr 17, 2008
9,987
Super attacking mastermind Maurizio Sarri goals per game in his career: 1.58
Super defensive-only-individual-quality Allegri: 1.77

They both started managing in 04/05, they both managed in lower leagues until this decade and Sarri is on his 3rd bigger team to Allegri's 2.

Allegri goals per game in 16/17 when we played with 3 strikers + Cuadrado: 2.01. Klopp at Liverpool for comparison: 2.14. But not offensive I guess.
Eh. Sorry if I haven't been clear enough for you but that doesn't really get to the crux of what I'm trying to say about the difference between the two coaches. There's a group of members on here (which is shrinking all the time, I might add) who have a schizophrenic attitude towards the topic. The argument is only binary and any irrelevant fact or statistic suffices to win the zero sum-argument you have with yourselves.

If you're going to jump to make a martyr of a coach, at least let him be an exceptional coach by some historical standard. Allegri is not that. I don't sneeze at his achievements. He was an astute tactician but at the end of the day his Scudetti were won by ready made squads who were mile in front of their competitors and he proved to be a not-so-nearly man in the CL.

No. Even if that statistical comparison really did reflect your point, it misses what I was trying to get at - what style of football suits the objectives of this club at this time? Obviously it's the CL. And what the Allegri fanatics so often forget is the way we were steamrolled in those two finals. Those two finals were perfect illustrations of the fatal deficiencies in Allegri's football. Nothing in football is as powerful as holding the ball and controlling the game. It's the modern reality of football, like it or not. But Allegri stated scores of times that he didn't believe in the feasibility of trying to do anything of the kind. It was almost literally in his game plan to deliberately sit back every 20 minutes or so - in spite of any momentum in Juve's favour or demonstrable ability to hold the ball, control the game and threaten to score - to bend over and take it up the arse for a while just because he thought it natural to do so; and moreover, that the opponents would, at one point or other, bend over for us in kind.

We, under Allegri's instruction, deliberately gave away the initiative to teams that did not think anything like Allegri did. They instead believed and dared to arrest the initiative for as long as their skill, technique, understanding and confidence would allow them. Allegri never even tried to imbue his teams with that kind of confidence. The indirect consequence of that was apprehension whenever Juve came up against sides who did demonstrate that confidence. We were set up for failure in those finals.

Sarri might not achieve what he wants to. But at least he aspires to a football which we have seen time and time again in this generation win the CL. He has the balls to have a crack at making this squad as ruthless as it deserves to be and I'd prefer to fail under Sarri than to inevitably fail under Allegri.
 

dolph

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2006
2,458
Their approach is different, I completely agree. But I think they want similar things. Allegri wanted goals. Not a 1-0 result. Of course, that shows up in the data, because rarely were there fewer than 2 or 3 goals in a pivotal match. Allegri never aimed for a 0-0 or a 1-0 in my opinion.

If you want to say Sarri is more offensive, it's not crazy. But I think neither manager wants to aim for a 1-0.
I dont think either of them really cares a lot if it’s 1-0 or 6-2. They are both just trying to win games, in the way they are convinced is the best way to do it.

- - - Updated - - -

Have to agree with this. But yeah Allegri was never a defensive coach either.
Not defensive necessarily, but maybe a bit more pragmatic and cautious.
 

Kyle

Piemonte Calcio
Contributor
Sep 4, 2006
67,537
mods need to start handing out bans for people still harping on about Allegri being a defensive coach in random threads.
 

il brutto

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
7,631
People who glamour over short passing possession based football are the ones that are living in the past. That kind of football was relevant as a winning formula ten years ago. Out of the current world champion, European champion and CL winner none play that kind of football. The team that dominated CL before last season didn't either. The teams that currently do well in the knockout competitions are the ones that handle transitional situations well both going forward and defensively, Liverpool being the prime example here. What matters is what you do with the possession you have not how much you have it.

It's no coincidence that this season we've played our best games in the games we didn't dominate possession. It doesn't take a tactical genius to understand that it's easier to attack when your opponent isn't defensively set yet. Obviously against some smaller Serie A teams playing that way isn't possible as they will sit deep and surrender possession. I think in these games we can make our life a a bit more easier with Sarri's approach. However in the big CL games against the likes of Barca and City it would be quite stupid to try and "outplay" them, especially with the players we have in midfield. You hurt those teams by playing fast and direct, the way Sarri had us play against Leverkusen for example or the way Kloppo kicked those teams out in the previous two seasons.

So far I'm very impressed by Sarri's willingness to adapt. I think he learned quite a lot at Chelsea from his struggles there. For example after getting rolfstomped 6-0 by City in the PL he played a more cautious game in the cup final and only lost on penalties. He isn't as wedded to one idea as he was when he first took charge at Chelsea.
 
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campionesidd

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2013
7,140
Eh. Sorry if I haven't been clear enough for you but that doesn't really get to the crux of what I'm trying to say about the difference between the two coaches. There's a group of members on here (which is shrinking all the time, I might add) who have a schizophrenic attitude towards the topic. The argument is only binary and any irrelevant fact or statistic suffices to win the zero sum-argument you have with yourselves.

If you're going to jump to make a martyr of a coach, at least let him be an exceptional coach by some historical standard. Allegri is not that. I don't sneeze at his achievements. He was an astute tactician but at the end of the day his Scudetti were won by ready made squads who were mile in front of their competitors and he proved to be a not-so-nearly man in the CL.

No. Even if that statistical comparison really did reflect your point, it misses what I was trying to get at - what style of football suits the objectives of this club at this time? Obviously it's the CL. And what the Allegri fanatics so often forget is the way we were steamrolled in those two finals. Those two finals were perfect illustrations of the fatal deficiencies in Allegri's football. Nothing in football is as powerful as holding the ball and controlling the game. It's the modern reality of football, like it or not. But Allegri stated scores of times that he didn't believe in the feasibility of trying to do anything of the kind. It was almost literally in his game plan to deliberately sit back every 20 minutes or so - in spite of any momentum in Juve's favour or demonstrable ability to hold the ball, control the game and threaten to score - to bend over and take it up the arse for a while just because he thought it natural to do so; and moreover, that the opponents would, at one point or other, bend over for us in kind.

We, under Allegri's instruction, deliberately gave away the initiative to teams that did not think anything like Allegri did. They instead believed and dared to arrest the initiative for as long as their skill, technique, understanding and confidence would allow them. Allegri never even tried to imbue his teams with that kind of confidence. The indirect consequence of that was apprehension whenever Juve came up against sides who did demonstrate that confidence. We were set up for failure in those finals.

Sarri might not achieve what he wants to. But at least he aspires to a football which we have seen time and time again in this generation win the CL. He has the balls to have a crack at making this squad as ruthless as it deserves to be and I'd prefer to fail under Sarri than to inevitably fail under Allegri.
You can’t really blame Allegri for the performance in the two finals. In 2017 Real’s players stepped up for the occasion and ours didn’t. In 2015, Barca were just a better team.
 

italiacalcio10

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2014
3,454
Super attacking mastermind Maurizio Sarri goals per game in his career: 1.58
Super defensive-only-individual-quality Allegri: 1.77

They both started managing in 04/05, they both managed in lower leagues until this decade and Sarri is on his 3rd bigger team to Allegri's 2.

Allegri goals per game in 16/17 when we played with 3 strikers + Cuadrado: 2.01. Klopp at Liverpool for comparison: 2.14. But not offensive I guess.
Don't think it's necessarily offensive vs defensive in the sense that Sarri's teams will score more goals. Sarri believes in defense by controlling play more than Allegri - he also believes in defending higher up the pitch. I'd be interested in their possession #s versus output.
You can score a boatload by playing counter-attack football. So I don't think it's necessary scoring vs. playing philosophy & emphasis on controlling the game.
 

campionesidd

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2013
7,140
Anyhow, I find this Allegri vs Sarri talk extremely tedious and boring. Allegri did a fantastic job in his five years and left Juve at the right time. No need to bring him into every conversation.
As for Sarri, he has had a promising start, but the season has just started so let’s not go overboard with criticism/praise.
 

Vlad

Delusional
May 23, 2011
18,479
Eh. Sorry if I haven't been clear enough for you but that doesn't really get to the crux of what I'm trying to say about the difference between the two coaches. There's a group of members on here (which is shrinking all the time, I might add) who have a schizophrenic attitude towards the topic. The argument is only binary and any irrelevant fact or statistic suffices to win the zero sum-argument you have with yourselves.

If you're going to jump to make a martyr of a coach, at least let him be an exceptional coach by some historical standard. Allegri is not that. I don't sneeze at his achievements. He was an astute tactician but at the end of the day his Scudetti were won by ready made squads who were mile in front of their competitors and he proved to be a not-so-nearly man in the CL.

No. Even if that statistical comparison really did reflect your point, it misses what I was trying to get at - what style of football suits the objectives of this club at this time? Obviously it's the CL. And what the Allegri fanatics so often forget is the way we were steamrolled in those two finals. Those two finals were perfect illustrations of the fatal deficiencies in Allegri's football. Nothing in football is as powerful as holding the ball and controlling the game. It's the modern reality of football, like it or not. But Allegri stated scores of times that he didn't believe in the feasibility of trying to do anything of the kind. It was almost literally in his game plan to deliberately sit back every 20 minutes or so - in spite of any momentum in Juve's favour or demonstrable ability to hold the ball, control the game and threaten to score - to bend over and take it up the arse for a while just because he thought it natural to do so; and moreover, that the opponents would, at one point or other, bend over for us in kind.

We, under Allegri's instruction, deliberately gave away the initiative to teams that did not think anything like Allegri did. They instead believed and dared to arrest the initiative for as long as their skill, technique, understanding and confidence would allow them. Allegri never even tried to imbue his teams with that kind of confidence. The indirect consequence of that was apprehension whenever Juve came up against sides who did demonstrate that confidence. We were set up for failure in those finals.

Sarri might not achieve what he wants to. But at least he aspires to a football which we have seen time and time again in this generation win the CL. He has the balls to have a crack at making this squad as ruthless as it deserves to be and I'd prefer to fail under Sarri than to inevitably fail under Allegri.
This has to be trolling.. wtf post. And usually you seem more sensible than this, which is why I think ur puling our leg here.. ;)
 

Dru

★ ★ ★
Aug 8, 2006
60,971
If you're going to jump to make a martyr of a coach, at least let him be an exceptional coach by some historical standard. Allegri is not that. I don't sneeze at his achievements. He was an astute tactician but at the end of the day his Scudetti were won by ready made squads who were mile in front of their competitors and he proved to be a not-so-nearly man in the CL.
:lol:

In contrast, Sarri has been handed a trash squad and been told to deal with it

Sarri might not achieve what he wants to.
:lol:

and that's ok guys

But at least he aspires to a football which we have seen time and time again in this generation win the CL.
:lol:

gtfoh sonny boy
 
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Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
28,084
:lol:

In contrast, Sarri has been handed a trash squad and been told to deal with it



:lol:

and that's ok guys



:lol:

gtfoh sonny boy
It was a ready-made squad that got knocked out of CL group stage the season before.

And 16/17 CL final squad had 3 starters still on the pitch left from the 14/15 final.

Ready made. :lol3: Allegri was such a failure in Europe. :lol3: