Lippi, a case for the prosecution and defence (1 Viewer)

Sparty

Junior Member
Mar 17, 2004
259
#83
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Sparty, I thought that was u spartacus, but i was not so sure. Who let you out of jail? you silly felon:D
pretty much...lol

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I never said Scala and Sacchi were not good in their day, I said they did the rebuilding of teams better than Del neri and when they went to bigger teams they were not successful, in Sacchi's case the nationale and in Scala's case , Dortmund.
Sorry Denco but Sacchi got a second place in the World Cup. Scala is true didn't do well in Germany but so did Lippi in Inter, whihc doesn't mean that he wasn't able to lead a big team...

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

I totally understand about working with inferior players and getting the best out of them and all that jazz but there are always 2 sides to a coin

For instance Zaccharoni who is not that similar to Del neri in his Udinese days was thought of as some kind of fresh air to Italian football with his 3 forwards and crossing the ball for Bierhoff to nod home and he went to Milan, won the league by default as for me that was the worst team to have won the league in my time, followed closely by the Juve that Inter handed the title to, but I digress, and 2 seasons or so later he was sacked as his brand of football was so anaemic , it was unreal, he went to Lazio, same scenario..
Well Zaccheroni for instance lacks the personality that Del Neri has imo, secondly Zaccheroni didn't have bad players in Udinese (Fiore,Bierhoff,Amoroso,Giannichedda,Jorgensen...) and nobody wins a league by defautl (lol) that year Milan played a good football and had in Weah,Bierhoff and Boban great leaders that got Milan to the title, but anyway that is a case like probably many other coaches, and that doesn't mean that Del Neri will fail or will succed for sure...Lippi didn't do incredible things with Napoli before joining Juve...but eveyrbody knew that the man had a good leadership to lead players and that is why they picked him.Same thing could happen to Del Neri.


++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I am just saying that Chievo are no more the attractive side that people are making them out to be

Cosmi might not be sucessful but his Perugia side is for me far more attractive than Chievo are
Yes Cosmi is a good coach as well, but unfortunately this year he will go to seire B and Del Neri with equal players or even worse is staying another year in serie A.


++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

Did you say Miccolli was better than Guilly? You have to be kidding

Miccoli cannot take on players, yes he strikes the ball so cleanly and he is technically good but thats about it

No way can Miccolii inspire any side to winning a big tournament, he is not anywhere near good enough, he can contribute to it, but he cannot inspire it.

Please do not say he has not been given ample opportunity as its his job to convince Lippi not to drop him but he just falls short of that.
OMG Denco whats wrong with u mate! How can u say Miccoli is not better that Giuly.Miccoli is a hell of a talent!. He can take players if he doesn't in Juve (which he does) his because he wants to play his cards right he doesn't wanna look selfish. Everytime Miccoli was given a chance he did it right. I mean look against Parma. Everytime he plays Juventus looks like another team. Miccoli is 4 o 5 years younger than Giuly and he can still get even better. I bet whatever u want that next year if he gets the chance to play as a starter will be Miccoli's year. Miccoli did an excelelnt job for his firts year in Juve.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
If you are dropped in favour of Dv , then something is very wrong with you.
Actually I think Di Vaio is a good player he has a problem though just like Miccoli and his probelm is called DP. Everytime Di Vaio plays good and DP gets back form his injury he gets back to the bench...ok some players like Miccoli have strong presonalities which doesn't bring them down, and to some players it affects them. Di Vaio is like one of those players. If he doesn't feel confidence around him he turns into a mediocre player. Trust me confidence sometimes is everything in a player.



++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Camoranesi is not a natural winger, he is just forced to play there, he is in fact an inside forward or second striker, that is why his best job is when he cuts inside and places a through pass

He never played on the wings at Verona.
Wrong. Camo is a natural wing. He always played on the wing in Verona except when Mutu was injured and had to play as a second striker. In his carreer he always played as a wing.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Lippi is very unpredictable as a manger, the only thing that you can guarantee is that he would always mess up in big matches and make baffling decisions but do you think that Del Neri would make things better with Moggi who has proved time and time again , to me anyways, that he is not adventurous enough to take gambles
Why everybody hates Moggi...I think the man did an excellent job. he bought players like Zidane,Henry,Trezeguet,Maresca,Miccoli,Di Vaio and many others, but everybody wants him to buy,buy,buy,buy. Damn! i agree with Moggi. Juventus will never be in financial crisis thanks to our transfer politic. Of course he cannot always be right with buying players, is not a machine, just as Juve cannot win everysingle year, but for what he did till now he did an excellent job IMO.

Yes Del Neri would marry perfectly with Juve as he is a coach that can get the best of the players he has. Juvenuts knows that, and that is why that if Lippi wont stay they will get him.
 

Sparty

Junior Member
Mar 17, 2004
259
#84
++ [ originally posted by kweku ] ++




And what if I would return from the dead people and challenge you hardcore style old sparty? ;)

But I actually agree withyou on this one, Juve buys good players cheap and turn them into great players. Del neri buys shitty players and turn them into good players and thats even harder. So I think he would suit Juve perfectly. Sorry Denco ;) Lippi was on the right path when we dared to attack Real MAdrid, but he lost it in the final. And this season it might have something withour bad defence that made him less attacking. But all in all i think he should stay for another season, or we should replace him with Del neri, He is a coaching talent
I do agree.
 

Sparty

Junior Member
Mar 17, 2004
259
#85
++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++


The first year : Inter lost the Scudetto to us, yes, but what makes you think we don't deserve it? We were the best attack, the best defence, the most points (after we won ;) ) and also had our player as topscorer of Serie A. If that's not enough to win you the scudetto, I don't know what is.

The second year : And what exactly is wrong with being consistent against small teams? The key to winning leagues have and always been consistency, if you win against big teams but still lose to the small ones you still won't win, would you? besides being consistent is a big challenge and serie a's "small teams" are not to mess with, they could destroy your trophy dreams. Plus we had a good CL campaign which fekked up in the last minute, but we worked our way to get there. The match against Depor might or might not be lucky, but fact is Tudor hit the ball well and it's a goal. A valid goal. Then came on Barca, and we defended well and under that enormous pressure at Nou camp we held on tight to win and then there was Real Madrid, who can ever dispute that great performance of ours. We lost the CL but this season Juve was superior at least in some games.
Well this year u have the answer. We are not as good we thought.
 
OP
denco

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #86
    ++ [ originally posted by Sparty ] ++


    pretty much...lol



    Sorry Denco but Sacchi got a second place in the World Cup. Scala is true didn't do well in Germany but so did Lippi in Inter, whihc doesn't mean that he wasn't able to lead a big team...



    Well Zaccheroni for instance lacks the personality that Del Neri has imo, secondly Zaccheroni didn't have bad players in Udinese (Fiore,Bierhoff,Amoroso,Giannichedda,Jorgensen...) and nobody wins a league by defautl (lol) that year Milan played a good football and had in Weah,Bierhoff and Boban great leaders that got Milan to the title, but anyway that is a case like probably many other coaches, and that doesn't mean that Del Neri will fail or will succed for sure...Lippi didn't do incredible things with Napoli before joining Juve...but eveyrbody knew that the man had a good leadership to lead players and that is why they picked him.Same thing could happen to Del Neri.




    Yes Cosmi is a good coach as well, but unfortunately this year he will go to seire B and Del Neri with equal players or even worse is staying another year in serie A.




    OMG Denco whats wrong with u mate! How can u say Miccoli is not better that Giuly.Miccoli is a hell of a talent!. He can take players if he doesn't in Juve (which he does) his because he wants to play his cards right he doesn't wanna look selfish. Everytime Miccoli was given a chance he did it right. I mean look against Parma. Everytime he plays Juventus looks like another team. Miccoli is 4 o 5 years younger than Giuly and he can still get even better. I bet whatever u want that next year if he gets the chance to play as a starter will be Miccoli's year. Miccoli did an excelelnt job for his firts year in Juve.



    Actually I think Di Vaio is a good player he has a problem though just like Miccoli and his probelm is called DP. Everytime Di Vaio plays good and DP gets back form his injury he gets back to the bench...ok some players like Miccoli have strong presonalities which doesn't bring them down, and to some players it affects them. Di Vaio is like one of those players. If he doesn't feel confidence around him he turns into a mediocre player. Trust me confidence sometimes is everything in a player.





    Wrong. Camo is a natural wing. He always played on the wing in Verona except when Mutu was injured and had to play as a second striker. In his carreer he always played as a wing.



    Why everybody hates Moggi...I think the man did an excellent job. he bought players like Zidane,Henry,Trezeguet,Maresca,Miccoli,Di Vaio and many others, but everybody wants him to buy,buy,buy,buy. Damn! i agree with Moggi. Juventus will never be in financial crisis thanks to our transfer politic. Of course he cannot always be right with buying players, is not a machine, just as Juve cannot win everysingle year, but for what he did till now he did an excellent job IMO.

    Yes Del Neri would marry perfectly with Juve as he is a coach that can get the best of the players he has. Juvenuts knows that, and that is why that if Lippi wont stay they will get him.
    Sacchi got second place in the wc? Are you trying to tell me that you think Sacchi was a sucess at the natioanle? Are you saying going out of Euro96 in the first round was something you were proud of? Apart from 20 minutes against Bulgaria in the semis in 94, Italy were absolute trash and that was just down to Sacchi
    They should have gone out against Nigeria and should never have gone past the first round in the first place as they came third.

    As for Miccoli , he is 24 and Guilly is 26 so there is not much difference, I saw some of him while at Perugia and he is not a dribbler, yes he can go past 1 player but overall he is not a classic playmaker like Guilly, Aimar, Ronaldinho or Kaka

    To blame Dv's poor form on Dp is just ridiculous but its you so everything thats bad in the world is Dp's fault

    Dp has been out for 4 to 5 weeks and in that time, how many goals has Dv scored? It got so bad now Lippi plays Nedved with Trez up front

    Well you seem to be adamant that Del Neri is the man and you probably watch Chievo more than i do as I am sure they have some cable channel in the U.S exclusively shows Chievo:D

    Did you say no one wins the league by default as I would have sworn you said in a previous post that Inter handed the title to us

    Please Milan were terrible that year as Fiorentina and Lazio played much better football and if not for Bati's untimely injury and Edmundo insisting he goes to the Rio carnival, they might have won it
     
    Aug 1, 2003
    17,696
    #87
    We do suck this year and I sadly admit that.

    You cannot compare Miccoli with Giuly.

    I do agree about Di Vaio though, I like him as a player and it IS irritating how when he plays well and Alex comes back he's on the bench again. But this year Lippi changed that didn't he? He let DV played awhile and Del Piero managed to regain first team place with his own hardwork
     

    Sparty

    Junior Member
    Mar 17, 2004
    259
    #88
    ++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
    Sacchi got second place in the wc? Are you trying to tell me that you think Sacchi was a sucess at the natioanle? Are you saying going out of Euro96 in the first round was something you were proud of? Apart from 20 minutes against Bulgaria in the semis in 94, Italy were absolute trash and that was just down to Sacchi
    They should have gone out against Nigeria and should never have gone past the first round in the first place as they came third.
    Sure we went to the final limpin, but we got to the final, and in Euro Italy played one of the best games ever against Germany, but they won. What can u do...also Sacchi to be honest with u wasn't fit to coach a national team. He is a club coach that needs time to teach is tattics and the team to assemble them.

    ++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
    As for Miccoli , he is 24 and Guilly is 26 so there is not much difference, I saw some of him while at Perugia and he is not a dribbler, yes he can go past 1 player but overall he is not a classic playmaker like Guilly, Aimar, Ronaldinho or Kaka.
    I'm sorry bro but Giuly will be 28 this July. I admit that I don't follow Monaco, but I saw them against Madrid and honestly all the dribblin skills that u are giving him, I didn't see them. I saw Giuly best quality was his speed, something that also Miccoli uses. Also Giuly is not a playmaker he plays on the wing and can act as a second striker.

    ++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
    To blame Dv's poor form on Dp is just ridiculous but its you so everything thats bad in the world is Dp's fault

    Dp has been out for 4 to 5 weeks and in that time, how many goals has Dv scored? It got so bad now Lippi plays Nedved with Trez up front.
    Well what can I say Denco but last year and this year too when DP was out for injury Di Vaio was playing really good and it happens that when DP got back on form he has to seat on teh bench even if DP played horribly. Like I said to some players the lack of confidence can put them in a really bad place and that is what happening to Di Vaio. The motivation goes away when u know that no matter how good u do if DP is ok he will play for u. That is why I admire Miccoli.

    ++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
    Well you seem to be adamant that Del Neri is the man and you probably watch Chievo more than i do as I am sure they have some cable channel in the U.S exclusively shows Chievo:D.
    I live in Spain now...so careful I might pay a visit to u and challenge u to Championship Manager :D

    ++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

    Did you say no one wins the league by default as I would have sworn you said in a previous post that Inter handed the title to us

    Please Milan were terrible that year as Fiorentina and Lazio played much better football and if not for Bati's untimely injury and Edmundo insisting he goes to the Rio carnival, they might have won it

    U are right in this one. I forgot that Lazio handled the title to them, but still that is not a bad result for a first timer. Although like I said I'm not a fan of Zac as for me he lacks the personality to lead a big team even though his ideas are interesting.
     

    Sparty

    Junior Member
    Mar 17, 2004
    259
    #89
    ++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++
    We do suck this year and I sadly admit that.

    You cannot compare Miccoli with Giuly.

    I do agree about Di Vaio though, I like him as a player and it IS irritating how when he plays well and Alex comes back he's on the bench again. But this year Lippi changed that didn't he? He let DV played awhile and Del Piero managed to regain first team place with his own hardwork
    U are right Sally. This year Di Vaio had more chances, but it must be irritating to know that no matter how good u do u will always be on the bench if the other one plays decently...
     

    IncuboRossonero

    Inferiority complex
    Nov 16, 2003
    7,039
    #91
    ++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
    Please Milan were terrible that year as Fiorentina and Lazio played much better football and if not for Bati's untimely injury and Edmundo insisting he goes to the Rio carnival, they might have won it
    Yes they were not the Milan of the Van Basten ERA or the current Milan BUT they were the best team that season illustrated through character, last ditch efforts and an overall effort from the entire team. Last minute goals by Ganz against Samp. Beating Lazio in the last match-up .. Abbiati's incredible season. How can you say they were terrible ... Lazio were unable to step up to the plate and Fiorentina had FAR bigger issues than Edmundo (which they knew from the start he was good for about half the season...happened again when he was shipped off to Napoli).
     

    Bjerknes

    "Top Economist"
    Mar 16, 2004
    111,509
    #94
    That is too bad. Deschamps was brilliant as a player with Juve, and I am sure he would be the same as a coach. His great tactical instinct was put on display yesterday against Chelsea, as he was down a man, but still decided to bring on another striker and keep pressing. He works wonders with Monaco.
     

    delpiero10

    Senior Member
    Apr 5, 2004
    1,158
    #97
    What is good with Deschamps is that he has a strong winner culture, and always gets the best out of the players, Im pretty sure too that he will come to Juve, its just a matter of time.
     

    Sparty

    Junior Member
    Mar 17, 2004
    259
    #98
    Lets see what it does next year before getting too excited with him. If he repeats the same success with Monaco as this year then I'll say get him, otherwise I would be cautious.
     
    OP
    denco

    denco

    Superior Being
    Jul 12, 2002
    4,679
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #100
    ++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++


    Yes they were not the Milan of the Van Basten ERA or the current Milan BUT they were the best team that season illustrated through character, last ditch efforts and an overall effort from the entire team. Last minute goals by Ganz against Samp. Beating Lazio in the last match-up .. Abbiati's incredible season. How can you say they were terrible ... Lazio were unable to step up to the plate and Fiorentina had FAR bigger issues than Edmundo (which they knew from the start he was good for about half the season...happened again when he was shipped off to Napoli).
    I was refering to their quality of play not their character, like you said Abbiatti saved your asses so many times and last gasp goals from players like Ganz did turn draws into wins which in most cases were undeserved on the balance of play and not to mention the massive helping hand you were given by Fiorentina and Lazio.
     

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