Lippi, a case for the prosecution and defence (1 Viewer)

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#1
Should he stay or should he go

A case for the defence

Your honour, Lippi has won 5 scudettos, 1 intercontinental cup, 1 super cup, 1 coppa italia and 1 cl
He has also taken Juventus to 4 finals of the cl and at one time they were the best in the world with thier power football and entertaining style in the late 90s
He made superstars of Del Piero, Montero, Vieri and Zidane and when he came back to Juve he disproved the unwritten law of never coming back to your old club by winning back to back scudettos and taking Juve to the final of Cl only to lose on penalties. Even this season that ppl are moaning about we are in final of coppa italia, are third in the league and could be second at the end of the campaign and mathematically can still win it

A Case for the prosecution

Your honour, yes my colleague has presented a compelling case as we cannot argue with that amount of success but if we look closely into those successes , you would find out that he was helped in no small part in first season by Milan going through a transition and Juve capitalised

Yes we got to 4 cl finals but we lost 3 of them , the first loss to Dortmund was achieved thru some baffling decisions which he is now noted for by starting with Vieri and Boksic in a formation he had not played with in such a long time as the usual front 2 were Vieri and Amoruso, then he took off a defender and brought on Dp and we completely lost our shape
The second final loss against Real , we played well for 20 minutes and that was it, the subs did nothing to improve the side

The third loss , he brought on Zalayeta for an injured Davids to play in the midfield and with Milan playing with 10 men, he refused to push Zambrotta forward to attack Roque Junior hoping to win on penalties

His brand of football since he came back has been appalling with only individual brilliance masking deep flaws in our game

We won the scudetto in his comeback only because his former club handed it to us

Last season , Milan kind of imploded and thats how we ran away with it but they managed to win both coppa italia and the Cl

We have blamed injuries and bad luck , this season but injuries and good luck helped us last season especially in the Cl where Barcelona should have been awarded to clear cut pens and against Real Madrid, Raul and Ronaldo were nowhere near fit, Figo Missed a penalty and Makele was missing

Our performance against the big sides have been shocking and his decisioins have been baffling

Who can forget playing Leggrotaglie in the midfield against Depor? The side he brought out against Roma and Inter?

And whats with all the injuries within his squad , most of it being muscular injuries

But perhaps, your honour, the most damning is his inability to cope with personalities and thereby Juve losing world class players like Baggio, Vieri, Davids, Deschamps and lesser lights like Torricelli

You the jury can decide
 

Elnur_E65

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2004
10,848
#2
We should be thinking about the Future, not the Past. Thank you, dear Lippi, for everything you've done for us.

I see the future of Juventus two seasons from now without Lippi.
 

Adrian

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2003
4,237
#3
the club needs change and while he coaches it, this wont happen.

great coach but this era is over.

he is welcome back if he is needed in a few seasons time.
 

aressandro10

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2003
2,884
#4
i'd say give him another season..... two great seasons and one failure and suddenly he'S a crap?.... i dun by it... evrything just falls apart this season...maybe next year , whatever that disturbs the team has gone , but still we have ourselve a world class coach....
 

desireless

Junior Member
Sep 16, 2003
169
#5
Will make a great case if the judge is Colina. :D

I guess the jury should judge themselves. Even in 1999-200, Ancelotti was not good enough for Juventinis, even with a statistic of only 3 loses in 2000-2001 season. So the verdict, Lippi should stay (just one more season).
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,154
#7
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Should he stay or should he go

A case for the defence

Your honour, Lippi has won 5 scudettos, 1 intercontinental cup, 1 super cup, 1 coppa italia and 1 cl
He has also taken Juventus to 4 finals of the cl and at one time they were the best in the world with thier power football and entertaining style in the late 90s
He made superstars of Del Piero, Montero, Vieri and Zidane and when he came back to Juve he disproved the unwritten law of never coming back to your old club by winning back to back scudettos and taking Juve to the final of Cl only to lose on penalties. Even this season that ppl are moaning about we are in final of coppa italia, are third in the league and could be second at the end of the campaign and mathematically can still win it

A Case for the prosecution

Your honour, yes my colleague has presented a compelling case as we cannot argue with that amount of success but if we look closely into those successes , you would find out that he was helped in no small part in first season by Milan going through a transition and Juve capitalised

Yes we got to 4 cl finals but we lost 3 of them , the first loss to Dortmund was achieved thru some baffling decisions which he is now noted for by starting with Vieri and Boksic in a formation he had not played with in such a long time as the usual front 2 were Vieri and Amoruso, then he took off a defender and brought on Dp and we completely lost our shape
The second final loss against Real , we played well for 20 minutes and that was it, the subs did nothing to improve the side

The third loss , he brought on Zalayeta for an injured Davids to play in the midfield and with Milan playing with 10 men, he refused to push Zambrotta forward to attack Roque Junior hoping to win on penalties

His brand of football since he came back has been appalling with only individual brilliance masking deep flaws in our game

We won the scudetto in his comeback only because his former club handed it to us

Last season , Milan kind of imploded and thats how we ran away with it but they managed to win both coppa italia and the Cl

We have blamed injuries and bad luck , this season but injuries and good luck helped us last season especially in the Cl where Barcelona should have been awarded to clear cut pens and against Real Madrid, Raul and Ronaldo were nowhere near fit, Figo Missed a penalty and Makele was missing

Our performance against the big sides have been shocking and his decisioins have been baffling

Who can forget playing Leggrotaglie in the midfield against Depor? The side he brought out against Roma and Inter?

And whats with all the injuries within his squad , most of it being muscular injuries

But perhaps, your honour, the most damning is his inability to cope with personalities and thereby Juve losing world class players like Baggio, Vieri, Davids, Deschamps and lesser lights like Torricelli

You the jury can decide
Decide what?

You said everything.. all the things we are complaining about lippi are here.

IMO we need some changes even if they are risky. A sacrifice for a better football.
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,660
#8
why is it always his fault , not the players??? lippi is great coach and i believe he should stay for the next season
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,154
#9
Is not his fault totally.. is Moggi´s fault too.

But lippi have a big part of the cake, because we all have seen in more than 2 times.. how lippi use crazy formation and take players out of they positions...he dont even play players when they are in a good momnt...to play some of his "old" friends.
The last, is that in this bad moments... he cant take anythingt out of the players..he can insert the motivation in them to fight tiññ the end opf the season.
IMO he is just as bored as the players and he just want this season to end uikly. He has been a great coach for juve but i think that he is already tired of coaching juve.
 

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,023
#10
I think my POV is pretty well known, I'm all for change, and I've been saying that for months now.

Bring on Deschamps.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
75,762
#12
Lippi is still productive as a coach. He's arguably one of the best out there. So until there are better alternatives, or until Lippi shows signs of losing it (some bad decisions this year, but nothing fatal that I can directly attribute to him) -- we should at least let him run out his contract.

If this was a case of "This Is Not Our Year," give him the chance to prove it.
 

Trezeguet_FC

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2003
1,888
#13
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Yes we got to 4 cl finals but we lost 3 of them , the first loss to Dortmund was achieved thru some baffling decisions which he is now noted for by starting with Vieri and Boksic in a formation he had not played with in such a long time as the usual front 2 were Vieri and Amoruso , then he took off a defender and brought on Dp and we completely lost our shape
The second final loss against Real , we played well for 20 minutes and that was it, the subs did nothing to improve the side

But perhaps, your honour, the most damning is his inability to cope with personalities and thereby Juve losing world class players like Baggio, Vieri, Davids, Deschamps and lesser lights like Torricelli

You the jury can decide
First off some questions to you. During that final with Dortmund was DP a starter at Juve? I really dont know. I thought that 96, 97 age was his best time. Why wasnt he a Juve starter during tose two finals of 97 and 98. Did he start the 96 final that we won?

Second: From my understanding vieri and lippi are good friends. IN fact, vieri said that he would join juve if lilppi was coach. And did Lipppi get into fights with Deshcamps and Baggio? I know hes got beef with baggio but why???
 

slack

Junior Member
Dec 13, 2002
208
#15
++ [ originally posted by PersianMafia ] ++


First off some questions to you. During that final with Dortmund was DP a starter at Juve? I really dont know. I thought that 96, 97 age was his best time. Why wasnt he a Juve starter during tose two finals of 97 and 98. Did he start the 96 final that we won?

Second: From my understanding vieri and lippi are good friends. IN fact, vieri said that he would join juve if lilppi was coach. And did Lipppi get into fights with Deshcamps and Baggio? I know hes got beef with baggio but why???
denco, disagree with your assessment of the 96/97 final. We were all over them in the first quarter but just couldn't score. They, on the other hand, scored 2 with Riedle in identical fashion and closed shop in a tactically perfect game. Ricken's goal right after he came on summed up the story of the night. The irony was the defeat against so many former Juve greats such as Kohler, Sousa (he had a lot of satisfaction, I'd imagine) and to a lesser extent, Moeller.

PersianMafia, 96/97 was the year in which Zidane, Vieri and Amoruso came into prominence and Boksic (aka the Andy Cole of Italy) actually lived up to his talent though not in goals. DP, coming off a very tiring 95/96 European Cup triumph and also one which he served the military, was not really a regular but had an ok season. He came off the bench in the 96/97 final since the others were more instrumental in carrying Juve into the final but scored an exquisite goal. DP's best time was 97/98, in which he was injured but started ... disappearing in the pocket of Hierro.

There were strong rumours of dressing room bust-ups between Vieri and Lippi in their earlier days. According to some creative sources, it went physical. In any case, Vieri wasn't dying to stay in Juve back then and suggested as much in telling Juve to sell him to Atletico if the price was right ... it was and if Moggi (who was on a roll) dared discard Sousa, Vialli and Ravanelli after the 95/96 triumph, who was Vieri? Lippi is a proud man and is probably more dictatorial as a coach than a players' man like Ancelotti is (as with most coaches who don't enjoy a glittering career as a player) In such cases, there can only be one voice and one direction in the dressing room - not exactly a bad thing either. Differences like those with Deschamps aren't necessarily a bad thing if the end result is constructive. Baggio's case was detrimental.
 

Trezeguet_FC

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2003
1,888
#16
What was Baggios case? And if Vieri was soo promisnig a striker, even more promising than DP during that time, why did we sell him and not DP who had a worse season than vieri?
 
Aug 1, 2003
17,675
#18
I don't know, maybe we've gone too Lippi-ish and we need a change.. But it'd be in a way unfair to him, no? He's brought us more good than harm, but still the 'it' factor isn't there. Should we give one more chance for him to really make us eat our words, or should us just let him go and not take another season of risky Lippi tactics?

I don't know meself :D
 
Aug 26, 2003
4,187
#20
hey here is my opinion,

I also said that we maybe need a change in juve and that also includes Lippi!!

but as many before me said he is a great choach, but the question is he the right anymore?? I am not sure about this but i could live with the situation if LIppi stays!!!!

but i think that he must start to insist his faults and make some changes in his mind!
He must give young players a chance, he can't bring off-form players only while they have a name like Del PIero or Trezeguet or Montero!!!
and he must start kicking asses in my opinion (when we play a bad game and not always tell it was not juves day) and he should stop talking about it is not a "desicive" match and we need no defenders!!!
 

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