Lippi, a case for the prosecution and defence (1 Viewer)

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by Sparty ] ++


Honestly I don't know where do u see his negative football... I mean Lippi with all the quality players that has wasn't even able to win Milan at home while Del Neri almost beat Milan at theirs and playing much better than Milan and not defending exaclty...so if that for u is cyinical and negative football then I am all that and more... I would like to see all the so called good coaches what would they do with Chievo palyers and see how many would get them almost in CL and in a Uefa spot like Del Neri did...




Duh of course he said that is always good to keep the feet on the ground that is a way to concentrate players...Lippi does that all the time...





Don't know if you are watching Chievo...



I would like to remind u Denco that the 2nd season Del Neri didn't have Manfredini,Corradi,Marazzina and Luciano which were the basis of his game (which by the way proved not to be incredible players, but under Del Neri they looked incredible that is something that u have to give to Del Neri and his tattics).

This season Del Neri his still managing Chievo to be on the middle table dispalying a good football style with players that are 2nd division material.

Lippi started like this and then turned out to be a great coach.

I do watch Chievo and they together with Bologna play the worst football in SerieA in my view

How can you compare the way a team will deal with one team with the way they will deal with another? First of all, no way would Milan use the same motivation to play against Juve away and Chievo at home

Secondly I heard Chievo were mainly using delaying tactics and thats why they were about 7 minutes added at the end

Also everyone now knows that if you toss the ball in the air with Milan defenders, you are more than likely to score as great as they maybe, Maldini especially is now a liability in the air whilst Cosacurta and Nesta are not exactly stalwarts in that department

And thats exactly Chievo stock in trade as thats how they play

Every time nowadays they show Chievo, I do not watch on telly anymore as for me they suck, against Roma recently, though they played better than I have seen them recently they were still trash

Against Inter, they were just diabolical

Now my beef with Lippi is the quality of football we dish out and if he is going to replace then it has to be with someone who plays good attractive football not just someone who just attacks down the flanks with athletes as wingers and then puts 8 men behind the ball.

Lippi is not cynical in fact he is more arrogant than cynical as he is the only one who could look at his squad and think they could win the Cl with the nonsense we have at the back

Only the most arrogant of peole could think they can get more out of Montero, Ferrara etc when its clear to everyone that they are finished as far as top flight pressuried football is concerned.

I never hear Lippi say we cannot win the league, infact if you asked him he would tell you that Milan would still slip up and we would be there to pounce

Chievo of 2 seasons ago was refreshing and played attractive football but not anymore

That Chievo are midtable is due to the fact that we have some horrible teams like Ancona in the top flight and you say 2nd division players, well Reginna, Empoli, Lecce, Brescia and others are packed with that sort of quality

Look at Parma and Lazio with all their problems and watch the quality of football they display almost every week even if their results don't always show their quality

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Maher]

I agree ,we need a coach who know how to play quality football beside getting results and wins because juve was known of this all the time.

 

[Sparty]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I do watch Chievo and they together with Bologna play the worst football in SerieA in my view

Exactly ur view...

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
How can you compare the way a team will deal with one team with the way they will deal with another? First of all, no way would Milan use the same motivation to play against Juve away and Chievo at home

Well they had all their starters against Chievo if that is not having respect for their opponent then I don't know waht it is...

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++Secondly I heard Chievo were mainly using delaying tactics and thats why they were about 7 minutes added at the end

That is not true.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++Also everyone now knows that if you toss the ball in the air with Milan defenders, you are more than likely to score as great as they maybe, Maldini especially is now a liability in the air whilst Cosacurta and Nesta are not exactly stalwarts in that department

If that is so easy like ur a saying then how stupid all the other coaches in serie A...including of course Lippi.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++Every time nowadays they show Chievo, I do not watch on telly anymore as for me they suck, against Roma recently, though they played better than I have seen them recently they were still trash

I agree that Chievo probably plays worse than two seasons ago...but hey with the players they have Del Neri is doing miracles...

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++Now my beef with Lippi is the quality of football we dish out and if he is going to replace then it has to be with someone who plays good attractive football not just someone who just attacks down the flanks with athletes as wingers and then puts 8 men behind the ball.

Athletes? well they are, but Santana and Semioli and Luciano are actually quality players that know how to dribble, go to the line and cross and not just running...Also that Chievo plays with 8 men behind the ball that is bullshit! Chievo does offside and his defense almost plays in the middle of the pitch and they press a lot...

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Chievo of 2 seasons ago was refreshing and played attractive football but not anymore.

Well Del Neri had better players last season, this year no.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++That Chievo are midtable is due to the fact that we have some horrible teams like Ancona in the top flight and you say 2nd division players, well Reginna, Empoli, Lecce, Brescia and others are packed with that sort of quality.

Ancona might be really bad the others are not that bad. Empoli,Reggina,Lecce and Brescia are in teh same level of Chievo if not even better...

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++Look at Parma and Lazio with all their problems and watch the quality of football they display almost every week even if their results don't always show their quality

Do not compare Lazio and Parma players with Chievo please...

 

[Dr-Juve]

Lippi is a LEGEND
And legends never dies
Despite the problems:
1-Poor Performance by almost all of the players
Lippi doesn't have anything to do with that

2-Multiple injuries
Lippi doesn't have anything to do with that

3-Moggi's policy in buying cheap (second class) players (Appiah and Legro)
Lippi doesn't have anything to do with that

Despite the above mentioned big problems which can face any coach, Juve is in the third position and in the Cup final

Comparing 2 big teams (real madrid and juve) u will find the differences between the great coach and a regular one taking in consideration real madrid is in the 2nd in there local tour., lost the cup and out of the CL although they are playing in totaly different circumstances and without facing any of the above mentioned problem faced by juve
IMO Lippi is the bestever coach and to those who are saying (give him another chance) this does't seems to be a proper way to talk about a great coach cuz as all of you know if juve dont want him there are at least 3 big teams waiting for him (real and chelasea as far as i know along with the AZZURI)

 

[Hydde]

By Denco:Lippi is not cynical in fact he is more arrogant than cynical as he is the only one who could look at his squad and think they could win the Cl with the nonsense we have at the back

Only the most arrogant of peole could think they can get more out of Montero, Ferrara etc when its clear to everyone that they are finished as far as top flight pressuried football is concerned

Amen to that,,, i really have the same feeling about him. He still keep believing in his old tactics and the law of the athleltic man who will run and kick like crazyover the skilled man who can dribble and have vision.

He is too arrogant to vary his tactics and that is what is killing us in some way.

++ [ originally posted by Dr-Juve ] ++
Lippi is a LEGEND
And legends never dies
Despite the problems:
1-Poor Performance by almost all of the players
Lippi doesn't have anything to do with that

2-Multiple injuries
Lippi doesn't have anything to do with that

3-Moggi's policy in buying cheap (second class) players (Appiah and Legro)
Lippi doesn't have anything to do with that

Despite the above mentioned big problems which can face any coach, Juve is in the third position and in the Cup final

Comparing 2 big teams (real madrid and juve) u will find the differences between the great coach and a regular one taking in consideration real madrid is in the 2nd in there local tour., lost the cup and out of the CL although they are playing in totaly different circumstances and without facing any of the above mentioned problem faced by juve
IMO Lippi is the bestever coach and to those who are saying (give him another chance) this does't seems to be a proper way to talk about a great coach cuz as all of you know if juve dont want him there are at least 3 big teams waiting for him (real and chelasea as far as i know along with the AZZURI)

I totally disagree with that.

Ill not take dredit ouit of klippi because he has wona lot with juve... but right now he is simply not functioning anymore for us.

I dont know how responsible is Lippi for the injuries of the players.... but definitely he is reaponsible for not getting the best of his men. Some players are just hopeless like montero .... but in other cases like appiah and legro...i really think that in that moment the coach need to talk with them... make them feel important and so on. We see i appiah and legro an incredibly lack of confidence.

About Moggi and his choices....yes lippi have a hand in there. In the transfer market... the owners have to agreein certaoin points with the coach, in which plasyers will be bought.
If iam the coach of a team....and i have something planned for the next season..with an specific player... then the owners of the team have to talk with me and together find a player of that characteristics for my tactics.
But in this case.. it seems that Lippi doesnt care about the way we play...and he even dont realize that we need a creative midfielder.

 

[Dr-Juve]

++ [ originally posted by Hydde ] ++


Amen to that,,, i really have the same feeling about him. He still keep believing in his old tactics and the law of the athleltic man who will run and kick like crazyover the skilled man who can dribble and have vision.

He is too arrogant to vary his tactics and that is what is killing us in some way.





I totally disagree with that.

Ill not take dredit ouit of klippi because he has wona lot with juve... but right now he is simply not functioning anymore for us.

I dont know how responsible is Lippi for the injuries of the players .... but definitely he is reaponsible for not getting the best of his men. Some players are just hopeless like montero .... but in other cases like appiah and legro...i really think that in that moment the coach need to talk with them... make them feel important and so on. We see i appiah and legro an incredibly lack of confidence.

About Moggi and his choices....yes lippi have a hand in there. In the transfer market... the owners have to agreein certaoin points with the coach, in which plasyers will be bought.
If iam the coach of a team....and i have something planned for the next season..with an specific player... then the owners of the team have to talk with me and together find a player of that characteristics for my tactics.
But in this case.. it seems that Lippi doesnt care about the way we play ...and he even dont realize that we need a creative midfielder.

Do u think Lippi would jeopardized his reputation by not taking care of his own team
You must be kidding

 

[Martin]

I won't hear of injuries, that is no excuse. Is it the coache's/management's responsibility to build a squad resistent to injury, all teams have to deal with them and you just have to find a way around them. As regards Moggi and co., Lippi himsaid said he had the best squad ever this year, deeper than the years before. And he totally failed his mission.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Dr-Juve ] ++
1-Poor Performance by almost all of the players
Lippi doesn't have anything to do with that

2-Multiple injuries
Lippi doesn't have anything to do with that

3-Moggi's policy in buying cheap (second class) players (Appiah and Legro)
Lippi doesn't have anything to do with that

Tripe.

If none of that is Lippi's fault, why the heck do we need a coach in the first place? Just fire all of them if they're not responsible for getting the best out of players, preventing injuries and transferring players.

1. It's the coach's responsibility to get the most out of his players, first of all by training them hard (which I'm sure he does), and by making good tactical decisions regarding formations, starting line-ups and substitutions

2.

++ [ originally posted by Martin ] ++
I won't hear of injuries, that is no excuse. Is it the coache's/management's responsibility to build a squad resistent to injury, all teams have to deal with them and you just have to find a way around them. As regards Moggi and co., Lippi himsaid said he had the best squad ever this year, deeper than the years before. And he totally failed his mission.

3. AFAIK, transfers are mostly the coach's decision. Lippi will go to Moggi and request that he sign x players. Sure, Moggi puts in his two cents, but I think Moggi only negotiates the deal and opens the purse strings.

I don't know that much about the whole transfer process, but I know that in Chelsea's case, Ranieri went to Roman with a list of players and Abramovich just splashed the cash.

 

[Hydde]

++ [ originally posted by Dr-Juve ] ++


Do u think Lippi would jeopardized his reputation by not taking care of his own team
You must be kidding

We are talking about the present.. not about how good he has been in the past.

Right now... i just feel that he is very tired of this thing.

 

[survivor]

Anyone who says that Lippi is not responsible for players' poor performance must be joking. It's a coach's job to get the best out of his players and find the right training techniques to better their performance. In this case, it's clearly seen that Lippi failed.

Although I accpet that he's a great coach, I doubt his ability of decision making and tactics used in this season. The Q is does he realize it or not...or is he going to repeat it again next season.

Ater carefully consider the case, the conclusion is the team needs new coach to boost their morale and victory thrust.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

lippi this year has literally sucked. the way he handled the team, maybe even the training. what he and moggi did on the transfer windows. i dont get it. i didnt expect lippi to behave that way. what really pissed me off was his comments to the media. the bullshit about winning it 5 times out of 8 and how this is the only bad season. i rember a certain parma game where crespo scored 3 goals and we lost 4-2. fonseca scored a great goal on gigi for us but he had to go off injured. the point is we are falling on well-known patterns. juve does bad ---> lippi washes his hands. what ancelloti did with juve the next two years was pretty good if u ask me. not much success in europe but i would have given him another year.
lets have a look at the other side. how may years passed from when Trapatoni left to when juve became a great team again. so we running the risk of having at least another year without winning. imo lets take that risk. lets bring somebody new to the team. a new mentallity, some new tactics, somebody who knows juventus and cares about the old lady. with some new players and hopefully our players getting back to their old self we can accomplish a lot. i want to trust moggi once again.
get lippi out of there, he obviosly is tired of juventus.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

forgot to add.

a lot of lippi's choices have not been very popular among the fans. i say it is his job to manage the team and let him do it. u want to make juve another Italy of Korea 2002 where practiaclly the press made the team. its all in lippi's desire to win. it has made players underachieve. appiah, camo, neddy, thuram ...

somebody quote me and say that they totally agree with me :down:

 

[Eaglesnake_1]

++ [ originally posted by Don Bes ] ++


the bullshit about winning it 5 times out of 8 and how this is the only bad season.

. what ancelloti did with juve the next two years was pretty good if u ask me. not much success in europe but i would have given him another year.


lets have a look at the other side. how may years passed from when Trapatoni left to when juve became a great team again.

lets take that risk. lets bring somebody new to the team. a new mentallity, some new tactics, somebody who knows juventus

Don, with all respect i disagree with you

i understand that this is a bad season and that somebody has to pay for the broken dishes( normally, the DT will be the one) but lets not be unfair to Lippi...

bullshit five scudettos won with Lippi ?

Ancelloti not much success in europe...True. Neither in Italy ( only two second places.

Trapatoni left and Juve became a great team again...with Lippi

lets bring somebody new, somebody who knows juventus...Then, Lippi doesnt know juventus? but other DT does ?

Today, Lippi has talked with Bettega for more than two hours, probably they have arrived at some agreement....lets wait....

 

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by Sparty ] ++


Exactly ur view...



Well they had all their starters against Chievo if that is not having respect for their opponent then I don't know waht it is...



That is not true.



If that is so easy like ur a saying then how stupid all the other coaches in serie A...including of course Lippi.





I agree that Chievo probably plays worse than two seasons ago...but hey with the players they have Del Neri is doing miracles...





Athletes? well they are, but Santana and Semioli and Luciano are actually quality players that know how to dribble, go to the line and cross and not just running...Also that Chievo plays with 8 men behind the ball that is bullshit! Chievo does offside and his defense almost plays in the middle of the pitch and they press a lot...




Well Del Neri had better players last season, this year no.



Ancona might be really bad the others are not that bad. Empoli,Reggina,Lecce and Brescia are in teh same level of Chievo if not even better...




Do not compare Lazio and Parma players with Chievo please...

I was looking at the serieA table and Chievo have scored 45 goals this season compared to Bologna's 54, Perugia who are second from bottom 48, Siena who were just promoted 49 and also Sampdoria who were also just promoted 50

Away from home Chievo have conceded just 17 goals, only Sampdoria, Milan adn Roma have conceded less and even Juve have conceded 3 more away than Chievo have

Also Chievo have scored just 29 at home , only 4 teams in the whole division have a worse record and they are Empoli, Reginna, Ancona and Modena

They have conceded 35 at home where they play their stupid offside that never seems to work.

Del Neri is not a new phenomenon, others have done it before and to better effect in the past as it was Sacchi who started the Milan revolution and Nevio Scala started the Parma one with relatively unknowns at the time

Curiously though, we all know what happened to those 2 when they went to comparatively bigger jobs and what has happened to them ever since

I do not see us playing with the kind of system that Del Neri uses anyways as we do not have wingers and you are surely not suggesting we buy Luciano.

Our offside trap is bad enuff as it is

Yes Chievo have worse players than they did previously but the fact still remains that now that the stakes are a bit higher for them as they arenow a midtable side who should be pushing for Europe, they have become negative and that is always a tell-tale sign with me as to how a manager would act when the stakes are higher

And I believe Del Neri would be different and not in a good way if he is given a bigger job

 

[Sparty]

Before I state my answer I would liket to say that I'm glad that u are back as u are on of the few members that challenges me in my views of course we are not hardcore like in the past, but hey good enuff for me.

Ok now to what I was gonna say.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

Del Neri is not a new phenomenon, others have done it before and to better effect in the past as it was Sacchi who started the Milan revolution and Nevio Scala started the Parma one with relatively unknowns at the time

Curiously though, we all know what happened to those 2 when they went to comparatively bigger jobs and what has happened to them ever since

I'm sorry mate, but how can u say that Nevio and Sacchi weren't successful? Sacchi builded probably one of the strongest teams in the 90's and Parma have never archivied the same result that with Scala did...

Del Neri in my view can do what Sacchi did with Milan...gives us an identity and most of all a style of play made of passes and creativity, and not long balls based on the stamina and strenght of our players...

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I do not see us playing with the kind of system that Del Neri uses anyways as we do not have wingers and you are surely not suggesting we buy Luciano.

Well... sorry to remind u that we have Camo, that is a pure wing that is being missused by Lippi as he gives him way to many defensive roles and despite that, he still manages to do well. Also we bought Kapo that can act perfectly as a left wing, not to mention Zambro, and if we buy Rothen even better...

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Our offside trap is bad enuff as it is.

Look, one of the things that makes me think that Del Neri would be an excellent coach is the fact that he can get 150% from players...just look at all his players that Chievo sold as gold...that now look more than normal players, but in Chievo they looked like a million buck: Corradi, Marazzina, Legrottaglie, Luciano, Manfredini, Corini...

That is the best evidence that a coach is doing an excellent job.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Yes Chievo have worse players than they did previously but the fact still remains that now that the stakes are a bit higher for them as they arenow a midtable side who should be pushing for Europe, they have become negative and that is always a tell-tale sign with me as to how a manager would act when the stakes are higher.

No, you are wrong Denco. The stakes would be higher if he would've stayed with the same players that he started with, not when u have to renew almost all your team with players that were almost failures (Zanchetta,Baronio...) or with players that had very little serie A experience (Semioli,Santana,Sculli...). Chievo's objective were always to save themselves from descending in to serie B. Even though Del Neri did an excellent job placing them where nobody would've expected Chievo to be...that is why Del Neri was always saying even when he was in Champions league spots that thier obejctive was not going to serie B.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
And I believe Del Neri would be different and not in a good way if he is given a bigger job

Probably u thought the same of Lippi when he was given Juventus job when he was coaching Napoli...

 

[juvelover]

our display sucks .....

juve games are boring,,,,

we r top team so we should act as one ,,,,,,,,

there is no character for our team ,,

i don't know what is our formation no one can predict the starting line up ,,,,,

he is very busy with his stupid expirements ( tudor midfielder , appiah left midfielder ,,, zenoni left back ,,etc one thing he got right about zambrotta and he was already the adapting kind of player )

no flair ,, we need revolotion we need new mentality

attacking one please i am sick of these tactical defensive games

can anyone say that lippi has a strategy for the future ?!

does this idiot moggi take his opinio b4 buying a player

bring parmas manager he used to be juve player am i right ?
e made a good team without any sources

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

++ [ originally posted by Eaglesnake_1 ] ++

Don, with all respect i disagree with you

i understand that this is a bad season and that somebody has to pay for the broken dishes( normally, the DT will be the one) but lets not be unfair to Lippi...

bullshit five scudettos won with Lippi ?

Ancelloti not much success in europe...True. Neither in Italy ( only two second places.

Trapatoni left and Juve became a great team again...with Lippi

lets bring somebody new, somebody who knows juventus...Then, Lippi doesnt know juventus? but other DT does ?

Today, Lippi has talked with Bettega for more than two hours, probably they have arrived at some agreement....lets wait....

we either evolve or die. law of nature.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Don Bes ] ++
we either evolve or die. law of nature.

ermm.. don't we die no matter what?

 

[Hydde]

:LOL:

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

++ [ originally posted by Graham ] ++

ermm.. don't we die no matter what?

ye but we die later