Lippi, a case for the prosecution and defence (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter denco
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Prandelli in his 3+ years at Parma with some excellent players, played decent (not brilliant) football but didn't come even remotely close to challenging for anything major. Lippi's record speaks for himself but 1 bad season and he's suddenly rubbish and not 'good enough' for Juve anymore. He has his faults but no more than the rest in Juventus FC. I suspect no-one amongst us is really sure about the managerial structure/role in the club. In strict technical terms, Lippi is indeed the coach, just as they are termed managers in England. However, what's the difference? What exactly are their jobscopes? My guess is they are more like General Managers who cover everything (which is a lot) Hence, I am hesitant in being overly critical about his influence in transfers or his actual football coaching for the simple reasons that I don't think I have the correct information to do so nor do I know that much better. Perhaps those who sounded so adamant knows something which we don't and if so, it'll be great if you could the knowledge with all in here.
denco, with all due respect, I think Sparty has some valid points and you're being a bit harsh on Del Neri. No doubt that there's an element of truth in your criticism but IMO, Chievo is treading the typical path that a small club would to cling onto the Serie A. They weren't the first and won't be the last. We usually see the extremes of promoted sides in their 1st seasons; Chievo was the spectacular end. Eventually, they learn the ways of survival in the top division and unfortunately, with the continual exodus of good players at every opportunity, it necessarily means negativity. The nature of the league itself shapes and conditions the way they play. Del Neri himself was pretty forthright regarding that on a couple of occasions. During the 1st and at most 2nd season(s), when expectations are the lowest and there's close to nothing to lose, they can afford to entertain. Once achieved, priority changes to objective 2 - remaining in the Serie A and perhaps challenging for something next. With their budget, its a practical impossibility. However and sadly so, fans' expectations usually have nothing to do with reality. Feed them an inch and they'll go into a frenzy for a foot. The only certainty is Del Neri's future won't be in Chievo for much longer, regardless of whether he's jumping or being pushed.
denco, with all due respect, I think Sparty has some valid points and you're being a bit harsh on Del Neri. No doubt that there's an element of truth in your criticism but IMO, Chievo is treading the typical path that a small club would to cling onto the Serie A. They weren't the first and won't be the last. We usually see the extremes of promoted sides in their 1st seasons; Chievo was the spectacular end. Eventually, they learn the ways of survival in the top division and unfortunately, with the continual exodus of good players at every opportunity, it necessarily means negativity. The nature of the league itself shapes and conditions the way they play. Del Neri himself was pretty forthright regarding that on a couple of occasions. During the 1st and at most 2nd season(s), when expectations are the lowest and there's close to nothing to lose, they can afford to entertain. Once achieved, priority changes to objective 2 - remaining in the Serie A and perhaps challenging for something next. With their budget, its a practical impossibility. However and sadly so, fans' expectations usually have nothing to do with reality. Feed them an inch and they'll go into a frenzy for a foot. The only certainty is Del Neri's future won't be in Chievo for much longer, regardless of whether he's jumping or being pushed.
Deschamps will not come, he said he feels is not still ready for serie A (hes probably right) and want to work with Monaco a bit more to get experience
From the two remaing options, Prandelli and Del neri, i believe the more interesting is Gigi Delneri. Why? because Delneri has dispayed, by far, a more offensive style.
That doesnt mean that defensive styles are bad. On the contrary, they generally get better results. Lippi is a good example of a very succesful defensive style( not this year, of course) and look
all the titles that has produced. Prandelli is also defensive oriented, but without the brillance of lippi
But, if Lippi goes, lets try with an more offensive oriented guy, like Delneri...
From the two remaing options, Prandelli and Del neri, i believe the more interesting is Gigi Delneri. Why? because Delneri has dispayed, by far, a more offensive style.
That doesnt mean that defensive styles are bad. On the contrary, they generally get better results. Lippi is a good example of a very succesful defensive style( not this year, of course) and look
all the titles that has produced. Prandelli is also defensive oriented, but without the brillance of lippi
But, if Lippi goes, lets try with an more offensive oriented guy, like Delneri...
Is not that is not good enough for Juve anymore, it´s just that Lippi has ended a cycle with Juve. Honestly the last three years under Lippi's management I never felt that Juventus won because was superior. The first year Inter gave us the scudetto. The second we won because we were more consistent against smaller teams and this year...well, we all know what happened this year. For me Lippi has lost the courage of making offensive teams. I mean do u guys remember the first Juventus of Lippi? He was playing with 3 fowards (!) and he gave chances to young players like Del Piero and Grabbi. When he arrived to Juventus he had nothing to lose. He was a coach full of motivation and hungry for titles, now Lippi for me is a mere shadow of the coach that he was in the beginning...that is why I want to see someonelses in Juve's bench. For me somebody that has that motivation and that determination to win titles is Del Neri, somebody that can bring to Juventus a new mentality just as Lippi did when he came to Juve. For once I would like to see Juventus to win because we were dominating the game playing nice football just as Deportivo did against Milan...
Thanks for understading my point of view.
Thanks for understading my point of view.
I don't get why u guys want Giuly so bad...no doubt is a good player, but I think u guys forget that we have someone called Miccoli that is as good or even better than Giuly and that is quite much younger and that has serie A experience in his shoulder, something that Giuly doesn't have...which would probably means that he would have to adapt to the serie A...
It's not the fact that we've been knocked out of competitions, it's the fact that Lippi seems very dry and out of ideas. He puts out bewildering formations *ahem* CL final, and even worse substitutions. He refuses to give our youngsters a fair go when any other club in the world would field their hot prospects... i mean we're barely challenging for any honours this season, so why not give those promising lads a run?
We were succesful last season, but that can't exactly be put down to Lippi's genius. I don't mean to undermine his efforts completely, but it wouldn't have been so hard to win Serie A and progress so far in the CL with Nedved in the kind of form he was in. Look what happened in the CL final without Nedved; Lippi makes some awful decisions and plays a part in our defeat.
I'm not blaming him completely, but it gets frustrating seeing him make the same mistakes over and over again.
We were succesful last season, but that can't exactly be put down to Lippi's genius. I don't mean to undermine his efforts completely, but it wouldn't have been so hard to win Serie A and progress so far in the CL with Nedved in the kind of form he was in. Look what happened in the CL final without Nedved; Lippi makes some awful decisions and plays a part in our defeat.
I'm not blaming him completely, but it gets frustrating seeing him make the same mistakes over and over again.
Sparty, I thought that was u spartacus, but i was not so sure. Who let you out of jail? you silly felon
I never said Scala and Sacchi were not good in their day, I said they did the rebuilding of teams better than Del neri and when they went to bigger teams they were not successful, in Sacchi's case the nationale and in Scala's case , Dortmund.
I totally understand about working with inferior players and getting the best out of them and all that jazz but there are always 2 sides to a coin
For instance Zaccharoni who is not that similar to Del neri in his Udinese days was thought of as some kind of fresh air to Italian football with his 3 forwards and crossing the ball for Bierhoff to nod home and he went to Milan, won the league by default as for me that was the worst team to have won the league in my time, followed closely by the Juve that Inter handed the title to, but I digress, and 2 seasons or so later he was sacked as his brand of football was so anaemic , it was unreal, he went to Lazio, same scenario.
I am just saying that Chievo are no more the attractive side that people are making them out to be
Cosmi might not be sucessful but his Perugia side is for me far more attractive than Chievo are
Did you say Miccolli was better than Guilly? You have to be kidding
Miccoli cannot take on players, yes he strikes the ball so cleanly and he is technically good but thats about it
No way can Miccolii inspire any side to winning a big tournament, he is not anywhere near good enough, he can contribute to it, but he cannot inspire it.
Please do not say he has not been given ample opportunity as its his job to convince Lippi not to drop him but he just falls short of that.
If you are dropped in favour of Dv , then something is very wrong with you.
Did you praise Lippi for giving Grabbi a chance? I would definitely give your name and address to Souness . But seriously Grabbi just played once or twice, it was not a regular thing
Camoranesi is not a natural winger, he is just forced to play there, he is in fact an inside forward or second striker, that is why his best job is when he cuts inside and places a through pass
He never played on the wings at Verona
Lippi is very unpredictable as a manger, the only thing that you can guarantee is that he would always mess up in big matches and make baffling decisions but do you think that Del Neri would make things better with Moggi who has proved time and time again , to me anyways, that he is not adventurous enough to take gambles
I never said Scala and Sacchi were not good in their day, I said they did the rebuilding of teams better than Del neri and when they went to bigger teams they were not successful, in Sacchi's case the nationale and in Scala's case , Dortmund.
I totally understand about working with inferior players and getting the best out of them and all that jazz but there are always 2 sides to a coin
For instance Zaccharoni who is not that similar to Del neri in his Udinese days was thought of as some kind of fresh air to Italian football with his 3 forwards and crossing the ball for Bierhoff to nod home and he went to Milan, won the league by default as for me that was the worst team to have won the league in my time, followed closely by the Juve that Inter handed the title to, but I digress, and 2 seasons or so later he was sacked as his brand of football was so anaemic , it was unreal, he went to Lazio, same scenario.
I am just saying that Chievo are no more the attractive side that people are making them out to be
Cosmi might not be sucessful but his Perugia side is for me far more attractive than Chievo are
Did you say Miccolli was better than Guilly? You have to be kidding
Miccoli cannot take on players, yes he strikes the ball so cleanly and he is technically good but thats about it
No way can Miccolii inspire any side to winning a big tournament, he is not anywhere near good enough, he can contribute to it, but he cannot inspire it.
Please do not say he has not been given ample opportunity as its his job to convince Lippi not to drop him but he just falls short of that.
If you are dropped in favour of Dv , then something is very wrong with you.
Did you praise Lippi for giving Grabbi a chance? I would definitely give your name and address to Souness
. But seriously Grabbi just played once or twice, it was not a regular thingCamoranesi is not a natural winger, he is just forced to play there, he is in fact an inside forward or second striker, that is why his best job is when he cuts inside and places a through pass
He never played on the wings at Verona
Lippi is very unpredictable as a manger, the only thing that you can guarantee is that he would always mess up in big matches and make baffling decisions but do you think that Del Neri would make things better with Moggi who has proved time and time again , to me anyways, that he is not adventurous enough to take gambles
My god, im sick and tired to see people bashing Lippi for everything that ocurrs on the team, from the departure of Davids to almost the minimal injure any
Im shure he is gonna leave this season and will probably go to Real madrid or Chelsea. And then, i will be affraid to play against him.( figure out what he could do with Abrahmovic or florentino money)
But almost everyone here is voting for him to leave and bring in "someone new, with fresh ideas". Ok, thats a risky bussines. Are we prepared to spend two or three next seasons without trophies ? are we willing to get another ancelloti lapsus?
I really belive he shoud stay at least one year more...
Im shure he is gonna leave this season and will probably go to Real madrid or Chelsea. And then, i will be affraid to play against him.( figure out what he could do with Abrahmovic or florentino money)
But almost everyone here is voting for him to leave and bring in "someone new, with fresh ideas". Ok, thats a risky bussines. Are we prepared to spend two or three next seasons without trophies ? are we willing to get another ancelloti lapsus?
I really belive he shoud stay at least one year more...
Football Italia :
Chelsea chase Lippi?
There are reports in Italy that representatives of Chelsea patron Roman Abramovich have contacted Marcello Lippi.
According to Italian television programme ‘Studio Sport’, agents John Ferguson and Mike Morris are the go-betweens for the Juventus boss.
It is widely believed that this will be Lippi’s final year on the Bianconeri bench and several options are open to him.
Links with the Azzurri job and Real Madrid have been mentioned in the press, while he has hinted at an overseas solution.
"I will reveal my future in the next few weeks," commented the former Inter Coach, "and surprise you all."
It is reported that Claudio Ranieri will be fired at the end of the season, but Chelsea are waiting for the public support to waver in the event of a Champions’ League exit.
The first choice was believed to be Sven Goran Eriksson, followed by Fabio Capello, but Inter’s interest in the current Roma boss has pushed their attention towards Lippi.
Meanwhile, the newspapers in the Peninsula continue to speculate on his successor at the Stadio Delle Alpi.
Didier Deschamps remains the number one target, although new investors in Monaco could prompt him to stay a little bit longer.
Other potential replacements for Lippi include Parma’s Cesare Prandelli, Chievo boss Gigi Del Neri and former Juventus star Gianluca Vialli.
Chelsea chase Lippi?
There are reports in Italy that representatives of Chelsea patron Roman Abramovich have contacted Marcello Lippi.
According to Italian television programme ‘Studio Sport’, agents John Ferguson and Mike Morris are the go-betweens for the Juventus boss.
It is widely believed that this will be Lippi’s final year on the Bianconeri bench and several options are open to him.
Links with the Azzurri job and Real Madrid have been mentioned in the press, while he has hinted at an overseas solution.
"I will reveal my future in the next few weeks," commented the former Inter Coach, "and surprise you all."
It is reported that Claudio Ranieri will be fired at the end of the season, but Chelsea are waiting for the public support to waver in the event of a Champions’ League exit.
The first choice was believed to be Sven Goran Eriksson, followed by Fabio Capello, but Inter’s interest in the current Roma boss has pushed their attention towards Lippi.
Meanwhile, the newspapers in the Peninsula continue to speculate on his successor at the Stadio Delle Alpi.
Didier Deschamps remains the number one target, although new investors in Monaco could prompt him to stay a little bit longer.
Other potential replacements for Lippi include Parma’s Cesare Prandelli, Chievo boss Gigi Del Neri and former Juventus star Gianluca Vialli.
And what if I would return from the dead people and challenge you hardcore style old sparty?
But I actually agree withyou on this one, Juve buys good players cheap and turn them into great players. Del neri buys shitty players and turn them into good players and thats even harder. So I think he would suit Juve perfectly. Sorry Denco
Lippi was on the right path when we dared to attack Real MAdrid, but he lost it in the final. And this season it might have something withour bad defence that made him less attacking. But all in all i think he should stay for another season, or we should replace him with Del neri, He is a coaching talent
The first year : Inter lost the Scudetto to us, yes, but what makes you think we don't deserve it? We were the best attack, the best defence, the most points (after we won ) and also had our player as topscorer of Serie A. If that's not enough to win you the scudetto, I don't know what is.
The second year : And what exactly is wrong with being consistent against small teams? The key to winning leagues have and always been consistency, if you win against big teams but still lose to the small ones you still won't win, would you? besides being consistent is a big challenge and serie a's "small teams" are not to mess with, they could destroy your trophy dreams. Plus we had a good CL campaign which fekked up in the last minute, but we worked our way to get there. The match against Depor might or might not be lucky, but fact is Tudor hit the ball well and it's a goal. A valid goal. Then came on Barca, and we defended well and under that enormous pressure at Nou camp we held on tight to win and then there was Real Madrid, who can ever dispute that great performance of ours. We lost the CL but this season Juve was superior at least in some games.
) and also had our player as topscorer of Serie A. If that's not enough to win you the scudetto, I don't know what is.The second year : And what exactly is wrong with being consistent against small teams? The key to winning leagues have and always been consistency, if you win against big teams but still lose to the small ones you still won't win, would you? besides being consistent is a big challenge and serie a's "small teams" are not to mess with, they could destroy your trophy dreams. Plus we had a good CL campaign which fekked up in the last minute, but we worked our way to get there. The match against Depor might or might not be lucky, but fact is Tudor hit the ball well and it's a goal. A valid goal. Then came on Barca, and we defended well and under that enormous pressure at Nou camp we held on tight to win and then there was Real Madrid, who can ever dispute that great performance of ours. We lost the CL but this season Juve was superior at least in some games.
Juventus rubbish Lippi link with Chelsea
tribalfootball.com - April 17, 2004
Juventus have rubbished reports that Chelsea have asked about the availability of trainer Marcello Lippi.
It was claimed in yesterday's Italian press that Lippi had agreed a deal with Chelsea to move to Stamford Bridge in the summer.
But Juve said in a statement last night: "We can categorically refute this story. The report has no foundation of truth in it whatsoever."
