Lazio fan killed - Serie A stopped? (1 Viewer)

Morra10

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2006
3,575
But you have seen those classic YouTube videos of police officers demonstrating gun safety in front of high school students, shooting themselves in the foot -- right?

It's not frequent. But anytime you're dealing with weapons, you're not going to be 100%. Which is why even firing warning shots is a danger, as Vinman pointed out.

I've never heard of this happening. Did his partner draw his weapon also? How many people were there because it seems like there were only about 15-20, and in that case is it necessary to pull out your gun and fire warning shots? It's just a very confusing situation.
 

Buy on AliExpress.com

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
85,042
I've never heard of this happening. Did his partner draw his weapon also? How many people were there because it seems like there were only about 15-20, and in that case is it necessary to pull out your gun and fire warning shots? It's just a very confusing situation.
I have no idea. I can only read the same reports as you.

But FYI:
DEA Agent Explains Gun Safety to Kids
 

Rami

The Linuxologist
Dec 24, 2004
8,068
This wasn't an acciendent. If the cop was trying to calm down the crowd normally they would shoot directly up in the air, so tell me how this lazio fan was shot from 100m away in the neck? That doesn't seem fishy to anyone?
If the reports are true, the shots were fired 200 meters. Now I am no gun expert, but I think its almost impossible to be on target 200 meters away with a simple handgun. Imagine two football fields stuck together. I don't know, maybe Vinnie could confirm.
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,482
If the reports are true, the shots were fired 200 meters. Now I am no gun expert, but I think its almost impossible to be on target 200 meters away with a simple handgun. Imagine two football fields stuck together. I don't know, maybe Vinnie could confirm.
its pretty obvious that it was a terrible accident...200 meters is too far to hope to be accurate with a police service weapon (handgun)

obviously what i meant to say was only shoot if it is necessary that the person being shot at has to be killed or he/she will take another life
exactly....does that make sense Martin ??
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
89,287
Calcio Debate: Are The Ultras Destroying Our Calcio?

Last Sunday was another dark day in Italian football. Salvatore Landolina argues that the Ultras are exercising too much power and are destroying the beautiful game in Italy…

Scandals, violence and, even worse, innocent people killed. This is the sad state of 21st century Italian football.

Some 500 years ago, peasants, vagabonds, ill-mannered and uneducated, ignorant people began a movement which would evolve into the modern game. It seems like half a millennium later the same people are trying their best to end football, well at least for Italians anyway.

The shooting of a Lazio fan is the latest in a long list of shameful incidents which have plagued the Italian game. The Italian football authorities still try to cover up the mess which has seen Calcio being shunned and laughed upon by the world.

What the Italians have to realise is that World Cup and Champions League victories will not wipe away a tarnished image and replace it with a shiny one. Everyone associated with Calcio - the clubs, the authorities and the fans have to wake up and face the reality.

The president of the Italian F.A, Giancarlo Abete, described the tragic events on Sunday as “nothing to do with the sport.” It’s pig headed arrogance like this which explains why the Italian game will never manage to climb out of the cess pit.

When fans and policemen are killed because of football related violence then it has everything to do with the sport but, of course, Abete will never admit to this. It is because of poor rules and regulations that incidents like this happen.

In April a new list of rules were implemented to help eradicate the “violenza negli stadi.” Apart from the tragic shooting, the world witnessed Atalanta vs Milan being abandoned because the so called Ultras insisted the game should be called off in respect of the fan, Gabriele Sandri, who was killed.

Later in the evening there was chaos in Rome as property was destroyed and scores of vehicles burnt by hundreds of Roma and Lazio fans who wanted to show solidarity with Sandri.

One could argue that this is fair enough but it shows that really the people who have the power in Italian football are the Ultras, and not Mr Abete and the Italian football authorities.

One of the rules stated that clubs should break all ties with the Ultras, and violent fans would be banned from Italian stadiums - however every Sunday around Italy we see Ultras taking part – these are the people who are supposed to be banned from the stadia.

Yes there are people out there who don’t care about the game and are hell bent on causing trouble in grounds around Italy. But one asks the question: why are they still allowed in following decades of violence which continue to affect Calcio?

As we saw on Sunday the Ultras seem to be winning the Calcio battle. Sadly it seems as if they are the ones who have the powers which influence the Italian game, and this isn’t a new thing, it’s been like this for years.

The sad reality is we will never see a trouble-free Calcio while the Ultras continue to dictate how football should be run in Italy.

In the end this will just cause people to stay indoors and watch football on the television. And who can blame them?

Here is a list of people who have died in the past 30 years in Italy due to domestic football violence, mostly involving Ultras:

28. October 1979: Lazio fan Vincenzo Paparelli (33) died during the derby against AS Roma after being hit by a missile fired by a Roma Ultra.

22. March 1982: Roma fan Andrea Vitone (14) died in a train fire after Roma Ultras had set a carriage on fire following a defeat to Bologna.

8. February 1984: After clashes between Udinese and Triestina supporters, Sandro Furlan was arrested and questioned by police. He was released but then fell into a coma and died three weeks later.

30. September 1984: Milan fan Marco Fonghessi died after being stabbed by another Milan supporter. The murderer thought Fonghessi was a Cremonese fan.

7. December 1986: Sambenedettese fan Giuseppe Tomasetti died after being stabbed with a knife.

9. October 1988: Ascoli fan Nazzareno Filippini, 32, died eight days after being attacked by four Inter Ultras.

18. June 1989: Fiorentina Ultras throw a Molotov Cocktail into a car with travelling Bologna supporters. Nobody dies, but a 14-year-old is left with horrific and permanent facial disfigurement.

10. January 1993: A 22-year-old throws himself off a train after being attacked by four Messina Ultras and dies.

29. January 1995: Genoa fan Vincenzo Spagnolo (25) died after being stabbed by a Milan fan outside the Marassi-Stadium. The match was aborted at halftime.

17. June 2001: Messina-Fan Antonio Curro died due to a self-made bomb that exploded during the Sicilian derby against Catania.

20. September 2003: Napoli fan Sergio Ercolano (20) died during clashes in the derby match against Avellino.

27. January 2007: Club-Manager Ermanno Licursi from Sammartinese died during fan clashes. He died trying to divide both fan-groups.

2. February 2007: Policeman Filippo Raciti (38) died after a blunt stone was thrown into his car during the derby between Catania Calcio and US Palermo.

And now 11.November 2007... Lazio-Fan Gabriele Sandri (28) dies.

When is all this violence and murder going to end?

goal.com
 

Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,420
Calcio Debate: Are The Ultras Destroying Our Calcio?

Last Sunday was another dark day in Italian football. Salvatore Landolina argues that the Ultras are exercising too much power and are destroying the beautiful game in Italy…

Scandals, violence and, even worse, innocent people killed. This is the sad state of 21st century Italian football.

Some 500 years ago, peasants, vagabonds, ill-mannered and uneducated, ignorant people began a movement which would evolve into the modern game. It seems like half a millennium later the same people are trying their best to end football, well at least for Italians anyway.

The shooting of a Lazio fan is the latest in a long list of shameful incidents which have plagued the Italian game. The Italian football authorities still try to cover up the mess which has seen Calcio being shunned and laughed upon by the world.

What the Italians have to realise is that World Cup and Champions League victories will not wipe away a tarnished image and replace it with a shiny one. Everyone associated with Calcio - the clubs, the authorities and the fans have to wake up and face the reality.

The president of the Italian F.A, Giancarlo Abete, described the tragic events on Sunday as “nothing to do with the sport.” It’s pig headed arrogance like this which explains why the Italian game will never manage to climb out of the cess pit.

When fans and policemen are killed because of football related violence then it has everything to do with the sport but, of course, Abete will never admit to this. It is because of poor rules and regulations that incidents like this happen.

In April a new list of rules were implemented to help eradicate the “violenza negli stadi.” Apart from the tragic shooting, the world witnessed Atalanta vs Milan being abandoned because the so called Ultras insisted the game should be called off in respect of the fan, Gabriele Sandri, who was killed.

Later in the evening there was chaos in Rome as property was destroyed and scores of vehicles burnt by hundreds of Roma and Lazio fans who wanted to show solidarity with Sandri.

One could argue that this is fair enough but it shows that really the people who have the power in Italian football are the Ultras, and not Mr Abete and the Italian football authorities.

One of the rules stated that clubs should break all ties with the Ultras, and violent fans would be banned from Italian stadiums - however every Sunday around Italy we see Ultras taking part – these are the people who are supposed to be banned from the stadia.

Yes there are people out there who don’t care about the game and are hell bent on causing trouble in grounds around Italy. But one asks the question: why are they still allowed in following decades of violence which continue to affect Calcio?

As we saw on Sunday the Ultras seem to be winning the Calcio battle. Sadly it seems as if they are the ones who have the powers which influence the Italian game, and this isn’t a new thing, it’s been like this for years.

The sad reality is we will never see a trouble-free Calcio while the Ultras continue to dictate how football should be run in Italy.

In the end this will just cause people to stay indoors and watch football on the television. And who can blame them?

Here is a list of people who have died in the past 30 years in Italy due to domestic football violence, mostly involving Ultras:

28. October 1979: Lazio fan Vincenzo Paparelli (33) died during the derby against AS Roma after being hit by a missile fired by a Roma Ultra.

22. March 1982: Roma fan Andrea Vitone (14) died in a train fire after Roma Ultras had set a carriage on fire following a defeat to Bologna.

8. February 1984: After clashes between Udinese and Triestina supporters, Sandro Furlan was arrested and questioned by police. He was released but then fell into a coma and died three weeks later.

30. September 1984: Milan fan Marco Fonghessi died after being stabbed by another Milan supporter. The murderer thought Fonghessi was a Cremonese fan.

7. December 1986: Sambenedettese fan Giuseppe Tomasetti died after being stabbed with a knife.

9. October 1988: Ascoli fan Nazzareno Filippini, 32, died eight days after being attacked by four Inter Ultras.

18. June 1989: Fiorentina Ultras throw a Molotov Cocktail into a car with travelling Bologna supporters. Nobody dies, but a 14-year-old is left with horrific and permanent facial disfigurement.

10. January 1993: A 22-year-old throws himself off a train after being attacked by four Messina Ultras and dies.

29. January 1995: Genoa fan Vincenzo Spagnolo (25) died after being stabbed by a Milan fan outside the Marassi-Stadium. The match was aborted at halftime.

17. June 2001: Messina-Fan Antonio Curro died due to a self-made bomb that exploded during the Sicilian derby against Catania.

20. September 2003: Napoli fan Sergio Ercolano (20) died during clashes in the derby match against Avellino.

27. January 2007: Club-Manager Ermanno Licursi from Sammartinese died during fan clashes. He died trying to divide both fan-groups.

2. February 2007: Policeman Filippo Raciti (38) died after a blunt stone was thrown into his car during the derby between Catania Calcio and US Palermo.

And now 11.November 2007... Lazio-Fan Gabriele Sandri (28) dies.

When is all this violence and murder going to end?

goal.com
as much as ia m upset innocent people die cos of these horrofic events, i think they r part of football , at least in italy. i've based my theory on the documentary called " ther eal football factories international" that we have all watched. its just part of the italian style of footballl. i am not saying italians are cold blooded murderes or any of that crap but they r people with great passion.

for example countries like, italy, turkey, egypt, algeria, etc...... there is alot of passion involved with things that represent gl;ory, history , and pride. let that be football, a building, a bank noite what ever fulfills the mentioned category will always bring upon voilence if its ever humilated or attacked. i def font agree with all these roits against the police but they r things that will never change.

the other point is, i dont think football teams should pay the price of what there supporters do its just not fair for the other classy supporters of the team nor the players and management.


on a positive side thou, i am glad juve ultras are not on the list mentioned in this goal.com rticle specially when u consider the passion us juve fans have.
 

AngelaL

Jinx Minx
Aug 25, 2006
10,214
But you have seen those classic YouTube videos of police officers demonstrating gun safety in front of high school students, shooting themselves in the foot -- right?

It's not frequent. But anytime you're dealing with weapons, you're not going to be 100%. Which is why even firing warning shots is a danger, as Vinman pointed out.
I've never heard of this happening. Did his partner draw his weapon also? How many people were there because it seems like there were only about 15-20, and in that case is it necessary to pull out your gun and fire warning shots? It's just a very confusing situation.
I have! I also remember a documentary, in which they explained how a young man was killed sitting inside a building at a firing range. The person who shot him had no idea that he had done it. He thought he had fired a single shot at a target, but as he raised his gun, it fired a second shot (involuntarily by the marksman). The stray bullet went through a gap in the buffers, over the bank, into the building, skiffed the ceiling and then struck the lad in the head. Sometimes guns fire a second shot, but I do not know exactly why they do. I think it must be something to do with the firing mechanism.
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,870
Italian society breeding hooligans not game


MILAN, Nov 13 (Reuters) - Renewed soccer violence in Italy has led officials to consider whether social issues are the real cause of the problem rather than traditional football rivalries.

The Italian Soccer Federation president Giancarlo Abete has been keen to point out that football is not the real enemy.

"Soccer does not carry all the responsibility, the events on Sunday are a social problem," he told reporters.

Italy conceived the mafia, and corruption probes involving football -- especially the match-fixing investigation that led to Juventus being demoted two seasons ago -- are rife.

An air of suspicion infiltrates a lot of Italian life, leading to anger against authorities from disenchanted citizens of a country still marked by vast regional differences.

Sundays are dominated by football in Italy and young men with nothing better to do, in a society with no pub culture, get sucked into soccer even if their true intent is causing trouble.

Immigrants are not as common on the streets as they are in France or Britain for example and comments from some Italians often sound old-fashioned in modern Europe.

Many of the 'ultra' groups loosely attached to clubs have a political leaning, with the majority distinctly right wing.

Most are not violent but offensive chants and banners are often heard and seen at matches, encouraging a degree of intolerance which would shock fans in Germany or even England, where soccer officials have worked hard to cut down on racism.

There are fewer black players in Serie A than some other top European leagues and monkey chants still occur. Romania and Fiorentina forward Adrian Mutu is sometimes called a "gypsy".

Politicians worry that the fabric of a society based on strong family values has been torn and that violent elements are using football as an outlet.

"Probably some of us, if not all, must be re-educated that other people are sacred. Today our country seems to have lost respect for the limits. But we don't have to be like ostriches," Education Minister Giuseppe Fiorini told reporters.

When violence does break out, like in Rome on Sunday when a police barracks was trashed, or when an officer was killed in riots in Catania in February, it is invariably away from the stadiums where it is hard to separate fans from other criminals.

Even European soccer's governing body UEFA has a view on the root of Italy's hooligan problem.

"It reflects social difficulties in Italian cities which have little to do with football, and also the presence of extremists and organised groups do not reflect what the average fan feels about football," UEFA's William Gaillard told the BBC.

"Football has a central place in the life of Italy, so whatever problems exist at a social level find their way to the stadium."

Reuters
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,870
In a bid to combat hooliganism, Atalanta president Ivan Ruggeri is planning to shut down 'la curva'.

La curva is the section where the Atalanta ultras - extreme fans - watch games and it is there where the violence flared at the weekend, forcing the match to be abandoned after just seven minutes.

"The scenes we saw in Bergamo should never be seen in the football world," said Ruggeri.

"I want to state that on Sunday, there were 24,000 people at the stadium in Bergamo and 20,000 have turned against the curva and this is an important sign.

"Bergamo cannot tolerate this, Bergamo is one of the most industrial cities in Italy and cannot tolerate 200 or 300 vandals who cause havoc at a football game.

"My dream is to close la curva and have families and kids instead.

"But in order to achieve that dream, I need the police to help me because alone I cannot achieve it."

Sporting Life
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,870
UEFA: Game not to blame for Italy violence


BRUSSELS, Nov 13 (Reuters) - UEFA president Michel Platini believes Italy's government must do more to tackle soccer-related violence in the wake of two fatal shootings in the country in the last year, his special advisor said.

"Michel Platini believes the Italian government and the judiciary is not doing its job properly," William Gaillard told Reuters on Tuesday.

"His (Platini's) view is that soccer is not to blame, nor the majority of real Italian soccer fans, but it is a minority of extremists who take over fans clubs and are not interested in football who are to blame.

"The Italian authorities need to clean up these supporters clubs, otherwise the small minority is going to continue to ruin the game for the majority of Italian supporters who are terrific fans of the game," Gaillard added. Italian soccer is in turmoil following widespread violence on Sunday after the shooting dead of a Lazio fan by a police officer. It mirrored the death of a policeman during rioting outside a match in Sicily last February.

Police said Sunday's fatal shooting of Gabriele Sandri at a service station where police were dealing with clashes between Lazio and Juventus supporters was accidental. The unnamed officer is under investigation for manslaughter. "This was a terrible tragedy, but soccer is not to totally to blame, this could have happened in any circumstance," Gaillard said.

"We (soccer's authorities) are powerless to act in these situations. What goes on outside our stadiums is not our responsibility, but the responsibility of the authorities."

UEFA would like to see tougher laws introduced by Italy's judiciary, Gaillard said.

"Italy needs tougher judicial bans like in England. At the moment you can not ban a fan for life in Italy, this has to happen," he said.

"The complicated system whereby the municipal authorities are in charge of the stadiums has to change and be given over to a central and higher authority."

"We also need to pull the high-level of police from inside the stadium and put in properly-trained and specialist stewarding, again like in England," Gaillard added.

The issue of soccer-related violence is due to be discussed at a high-level summit of European Union ministers, the European Commission, EU police chiefs, supporters groups and senior soccer officials at the end of the month.

A proposal to ban sports fans who misbehave from stadiums and major events across the whole of the 27-member bloc is expected to be top of the agenda at the meeting on Nov. 28 along with stadium security, policing and stricter punishments.

"The violence in Italy shows that this meeting is more important than ever," Gaillard said.

"We need a more coherent strategy at EU level. We will also asking the EU to put more pressure on countries such as Italy to act swiftly and more effectively.

Reuters
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,870
What a stupid minister!!!

---------------------------------------

Italy govt says soccer death "excuse" for rampage


ROME, Nov 13 (Reuters) - Italy's interior minister accused soccer hooligans on Tuesday of using the shooting of a fan by a policeman at the weekend as an excuse to go on the rampage, and promised to "cut out this violence at its roots".

"The violent reaction to Gabriele Sandri's death shows they were looking for an opportunity -- and found it -- to raise again the banners they were forced to lower after the death of (Sicilian policeman Filippo) Raciti," Amato said.

"This gave them a new reason for their vendetta and their hatred of the police, who had shot a fan, was bound to explode again," said Amato, grilled by parliament on Sunday's violence.

The measures were much less drastic than those taken in February when all matches were suspended pending tougher new security measures at stadiums.

Some politicians demanded tougher action.

"It is not enough to stop Serie B for one Sunday and Serie C, we should stop the top league, around which the whole soccer machinery revolves," said Social Affairs Minister Paolo Ferrero.

An opinion poll for La Repubblica newspaper showed one person in two favoured keeping fans out for the rest of the season, some soccer officials tried to distance the sport from violence sparked by an incident far away from any stadium.

UEFA President Michel Platini told one paper that "Sandri's death has nothing to do with soccer" and asked if, had a pop fan been killed instead, all concerts would have been cancelled.

At Santa Rita hall in central Rome, many mourners filing past the coffin of Lazio fan Sandri wore scarves in his club's blue and white but some also wore rival Roma's red and yellow.

"Real soccer doesn't exist anymore," said local resident Maurizio D'Angelo at the wake. "Real soccer now is what we play on the streets with our friends to have a good time."

Reuters
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
85,042
It's clear Giancarlo Abete has ever interest in defending the sport and "blame society". And the whole Catania mess last year proves that there's much to be done at the stadiums and in the sport.

But that goal.com article was retarded of the facts of the situation:

The president of the Italian F.A, Giancarlo Abete, described the tragic events on Sunday as “nothing to do with the sport.” It’s pig headed arrogance like this which explains why the Italian game will never manage to climb out of the cess pit.

When fans and policemen are killed because of football related violence then it has everything to do with the sport but, of course, Abete will never admit to this. It is because of poor rules and regulations that incidents like this happen.

In April a new list of rules were implemented to help eradicate the “violenza negli stadi.”
Let me get this straight, goal.com. Two small gangs of footie supporters get in a violent scuffle at an Autogrille in the middle of bumf*ck freaking Arezzo -- nowhere near any stadiums -- and a cop fires a weapon accidentally into the chest of a guy in the back seat. And the sport is the problem here?

What kind of acid is that guy at goal.com on?

Anyone storming the Rome offices for rioting should be hung up by their nuts and prosecuted like anyone else, calcio or no calcio. People who start fights at highway rest stops should be subject to assault and battery charges and held liable, calcio or no calcio. And cops who fire their weapons off near civilians in dangerous situations need to have their procedures examined and face any consequences if found negligent, calcio or no calcio.

Blame the sport where it's due. But don't make it a scapegoat for socially bad behavior.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
117,142
It's tragic and wrong what happened. But even if I'm in the backseat of a car with 4 other street thugs who are picking fights with another group of random strangers at a highway rest stop, I'm not exactly scoring big on my crisis and violence avoidance skills.
I don't agree, Greg, as it's sort of like guilty by association. Sandri might have been travelling with the Ultras, but if he doesn't take part in hooligan activities, he is indeed just an innocent bystander.

But in reality, the blame for this whole debacle lies on the shoulders of the police who thought it would be prudent to fire warnings shots. That is where everything went wrong and now Calcio might be hurt because of it.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)