Krasic, the New Diego (1 Viewer)

Mar 10, 2009
8,120
Juventus and Diego: No Room in Delneri's 4-4-2?

Last season’s Juventus was built around the considerable talent of their newly acquired Brazilian trequartista Diego. In a complete tactical shift the Turin side sold almost every winger in the squad and changed to a three-man midfield.

The experiment, like much about post-Calciopoli Juventus, failed miserably. Limping home in seventh place, the bright start—typified by the away victory over Roma in which Diego scored a brilliant solo goal—seemed a distant memory.

Ciro Ferrara was sacked, and now Luigi Delneri is the man charged with rebuilding the fallen Old Lady of Italian football. The coach is a devotee of 4-4-2 and has implemented variations of it wherever he has been.

Juventus have recognised this and have already signed Simone Pepe and Jorge Martinez to bring some much needed width to the side. There are also strong links to CSKA Moscow star Milos Krasic, who has professed his desire to join the Bianconeri on a number of occasions already this summer.

All of which begs the question: Where does Diego fit into the new coach’s plans? The simple answer is that he doesn’t, a fact reinforced by the club’s willingness to include the player as part-exchange in a number of deals to bring in a new striker.

Diego has allegedly refused a move to Wolfsburg and seemingly has no desire to leave a club he joined amid much fanfare just 12 months ago. Juventus will also be reluctant to absorb a large financial loss on a player costing €25 million, and his struggles last season make realising a profit highly unlikely.

So we reach the impasse currently facing Juventus, Diego, and Gigi Delneri. The Brazilian possesses neither the raw speed nor defensive attributes to be considered for a Pavel Nedved style wide midfield role. The only suitable position therefore is as a second striker, or perhaps a slight formation tweak to 4-4-1-1.

This poses an even greater obstacle than any previously mentioned—the Juventus legend that is Alessandro Del Piero. Over the past 18 seasons many strikers have tried to shift the iconic Number 10 from his place in the starting lineup. All have failed.

Filippo Inzaghi, Marco Di Vaio, Fabrizio Micolli, Zlatan Ibrahimovic have all laid claim to his spot, yet Ale remains, a living, breathing statue nobody dares to remove from its pedestal. Fabio Capelllo systematically substituted the Captain, and after he left for Madrid, Del Piero responded by scoring enough goals to earn himself two consecutive Capocannoniere crowns.

Delneri went public earlier this week, saying “Del Piero will always play when he is fit” and “Diego and Del Piero cannot play together,” which cannot bode well for Diego, who seems destined to become the latest Del Piero reserve.

While the captain is clearly no youngster, he was the club's leading scorer yet again last term. Diego is certainly a player entering the peak years of his career, yet finds himself currently on the outside looking in for both club and country.

Neither Juventus nor Diego himself seem ready to give up on the other quite yet, but perhaps it is time for both to admit defeat and move on before another year is wasted.

With Brazil’s next coach also likely to usher in a new era, Diego needs to play regularly and play well. Being an out-of-position reserve to a living legend is probably not the best place to stake a claim for recognition.



source http://bleacherreport.com/articles/420707-juventus-and-diego-no-room-in-delneris-4-4-2
 

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king Ale

Senior Member
Oct 28, 2004
21,689
So Ciro chickened out because he had to play Alex, he started not getting good results, his job was at risk, but he still insisted on playing Del Piero because it was even more important than his JOB. Nice logic. Two good games (one of which was against Genoa where we had an absolutely chaotic defense) have driven you to the point that you can't see how bad our defense was. We used the exact same system against Napoli at home, and we conceded three goals. It was always going to be our biggest problem last season, no matter what system we were going to play. We needed to fix the defense before the season started.

And, the hilarious thing is that Ale got benched quite a few times under Ciro, I wonder why Ciro still insisted on not playing 4-2-3-1.

So many delusional posters here.
 

Kasaki

Moggi's Assistant
Jun 1, 2010
13,739
So Ciro chickened out because he had to play Alex, he started not getting good results, his job was at risk, but he still insisted on playing Del Piero because it was even more important than his JOB. Nice logic. Two good games (one of which was against Genoa where we had an absolutely chaotic defense) have driven you to the point that you can't see how bad our defense was. We used the exact same system against Napoli at home, and we conceded three goals. It was always going to be our biggest problem last season, no matter what system we were going to play. We needed to fix the defense before the season started.

And, the hilarious thing is that Ale got benched quite a few times under Ciro, I wonder why Ciro still insisted on not playing 4-3-1-2.

So many delusional posters here.
Ciro and Del Piero feud/clash is a whole diff story

Ciro was confused as to what formation to play....the 4-1-3-2 worked the best. When Giovinco played :tuttosport:
 
Mar 10, 2009
8,120
^^

Juventus were fine under Ciro until Del Piero came back, until Juventus were some what forced to play him.

@ Kasaki

it's not just del neri it's the italian mentality, look at what Totti did to Roma this season? As soon as Ranieri began to drop him and gave younger players the chance, he caused a tantrum, and made the backstage very uncomfortable for the players.

Serie A teams need to wake up, and up date themselves to modern day standards, otherwise we'll slide down to fifth place
 

Kasaki

Moggi's Assistant
Jun 1, 2010
13,739
Del Piero would never do that. Totti is a douche for what he did and so are the dumb ass fans. I believe conte will have a more positive outlook towards youth. I think his a.c siena squad was a decent mix.
 
Mar 10, 2009
8,120
Nah, I meant it as in, in the italian mind old players have to be considered regulars because of past achievement. I know del piero will never sink to the level of totti lol :p
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
boo hoo go cry me a river you fan boy

DEL PIERO OUT!
Says the one with Benitez avatar ever since he joined.

If Ale is the reason Giovinco and Diego are out then fuck the two of them. If Ale is the reason you're fat, then fuck your diet system, if Ale is the reason you shit bricks whenever we play against Benitez then eat fruit you will digest faster and you will shit green tea.
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
^^Juventus were fine under Ciro until Del Piero came back, until Juventus were some what forced to play him.
Anything for the Captain.

If he asks you to clean his shoes you have to do it using your favorite shirt. If he asks to play 200min per game then the Italian federation should consider playing 200min per game and not 90min. If he requests players and sends players on loan or sell them we should all smile and thank god we have someone like him.


Del Piero > Fat Benitez.
 

Buck Fuddy

Lara Chedraoui fanboy
May 22, 2009
10,636
So Ciro chickened out because he had to play Alex, he started not getting good results, his job was at risk, but he still insisted on playing Del Piero because it was even more important than his JOB. Nice logic. Two good games (one of which was against Genoa where we had an absolutely chaotic defense) have driven you to the point that you can't see how bad our defense was. We used the exact same system against Napoli at home, and we conceded three goals. It was always going to be our biggest problem last season, no matter what system we were going to play. We needed to fix the defense before the season started.

And, the hilarious thing is that Ale got benched quite a few times under Ciro, I wonder why Ciro still insisted on not playing 4-2-3-1.

So many delusional posters here.
I don't want to get into the whole DP vs Ferrara thing because I don't know what, if something at all, happened. But I do find it strange that the Napoli game is always forgotten when talking about our "great" 4-2-3-1 setup.

Maybe we should have stuck with that formation, who knows. But to say that abandoning that formation was the start / cause to our problems is just wrong imo. By game 3 of the season (away to Lazio, we still ended up winning, I know) our problems where there for everyone to see. The first CL game (home to Bordeaux) confirmed the problems, and by games 5 & 6 (Genoa & Bologna) I think most peope were completely aware that we were in for a difficult season.
 

Salvo

J
Moderator
Dec 17, 2007
61,271
Deebo you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, a coach with balls would play both players. Alex has only given sweat and blood for this club, he was IMO one of our best this season, surely the best along with Matri in the latter half. But it is people like you who fail to appreciate champions that do not realise that a club can move forward without having to get rid of the last symbol of Juventus that we have.
 

Juve_fanatic

Second coolest member!
Apr 5, 2006
7,561
hahaha, this just goes to show how stupid a team we are.....we are probably the only team that expects from a player to shine from the first day he arrives. I keep reading stuff like how Krasic doesnt fit a 4-4-2 or this or that and it is making me very angry, cause if he isnt suited for a 4-4-2 then i dont know who is. Plus people just keep forgeting one of the most important things about Krasic and that is that he has been playing for 1.5 seasons this year and i dont think that many of you people know what that actually means. Players get easily tired in leagues where there are 34, 32 and less games yet alone if they have to play 53+ games (like Krasic did)...Add to this the fact that it was only his first season and while you are adding this think of Melo and the reward he got the first year he came to play for us. ANd look at Melo now, one of the very, very vew key players in our team. It is just frustrating to see how after just one (actually half) bad season, the club immediately wants to sell him or even thinks about selling him. Give him another chance for next season, new season, new freshness, improvement of our squad (hopefully) and we shall see if he is cut for it. But please, please dont compare his situation with Diego's. I know our team's menagement is that stupid to do it again, but i really think that they have learned from their mistakes.
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,539
So Ciro chickened out because he had to play Alex, he started not getting good results
He ruined our chances in CL. You yourself said many times that Ciro shouldn't have replaced Giovinco with Del Piero in a 4-2-3-1. If you remember, Ciro didn't change the system at first. He kept the 4-2-3-1 but he came with the "brilliant" idea to play Del Piero on the left side of the attacking midfield trio. He replaced a component that was making the system good, with someone who isn't an attacking winger.


his job was at risk, but he still insisted on playing Del Piero because it was even more important than his JOB. Nice logic.
We've been through this million times and yet you DELIBERATELY act stupid and activate the Del Piero defensive system.
Ciro made a mistake against Bordeaux. He shouldn't have played Del Piero but he was a chicken to drop him. We finally found a momentum, we finally started scoring a lot and he ruined it. After that he couldn't even play 4-2-3-1 due to some injuries of important players so it doesn't even matter if he played or benched Del Piero.
His mistake was that he was an amateur who wanted to keep the 4-2-3-1 but also had to play Del Piero in it, even if it was clear that it can't work.
Two good games (one of which was against Genoa where we had an absolutely chaotic defense) have driven you to the point that you can't see how bad our defense was. We used the exact same system against Napoli at home, and we conceded three goals.
Atalanta and Sampdoria 5:2 and 5:1 wins. Not Genoa. We played 4-2-3-1 on those two matches and we started with that formation against Napoli. But at 0:0 a small injury forced Ciro to change the system against Napoli and only then we lost that match. We didn't play 4-2-3-1 against Napoli, as you're trying to present it. We played that formation for some 20 minutes or so.

And, the hilarious thing is that Ale got benched quite a few times under Ciro, I wonder why Ciro still insisted on not playing 4-2-3-1.
Camo got injured.
Ciro was the one who made the initial mistake, the main mistake was made later. Ciro refused to continue with a formation that suit our players and then injuries prevented him from using it later. The formation wasn't even considered by Zaccheroni. Then, instead of building on what looked promising and simply replace Camo with another RW (in addition to buying good fullbacks) Marotta hired a 4-4-2 coach and got rid of all three attacking midfielders we had in those 4-2-3-1 matches where we scored 5 goals in each.
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,539
I don't want to get into the whole DP vs Ferrara thing because I don't know what, if something at all, happened. But I do find it strange that the Napoli game is always forgotten when talking about our "great" 4-2-3-1 setup.
It's not forgotten dammit :lol:
I explained like 10 million times that we didn't use 4-2-3-1 when we lost that match, but Hoori deliberately brings it up, trying to strengthen her argument, hoping that we all forgot what happened against Napoli.

Here:
http://www.football-italia.net/sa0910/juv-nap.html

As you can see, we started with 4-2-3-1 formation:
Buffon
Grygera - Cannavaro - Chiellini - Grosso
Felipe Melo - Poulsen
Camoranesi- Diego - Giovinco
Trezeguet

In the 31st minute, at 0:0, Camo was replaced by Tiago and it wasn't a 4-2-3-1 formation anymore.
 

Buck Fuddy

Lara Chedraoui fanboy
May 22, 2009
10,636
It's not forgotten dammit :lol:
I explained like 10 million times that we didn't use 4-2-3-1 when we lost that match, but Hoori deliberately brings it up, trying to strengthen her argument, hoping that we all forgot what happened against Napoli.

Here:
http://www.football-italia.net/sa0910/juv-nap.html

As you can see, we started with 4-2-3-1 formation:
Buffon
Grygera - Cannavaro - Chiellini - Grosso
Felipe Melo - Poulsen
Camoranesi- Diego - Giovinco
Trezeguet

In the 31st minute, at 0:0, Camo was replaced by Tiago and it wasn't a 4-2-3-1 formation anymore.
And was Tiago asked to take over Camo's role or did he get his usual role? Not that it would matter much, since we all know how Tiago performed for us. Anyway, Camo out means that the 4-2-3-1 became impossible.

But like I posted earlier, the game away to Bordeaux or the change in formation was not the start of our many problems for me personally. That happened much, much earlier.


Edit: never mind the question, I didn't see your newer post.
 

paoluzzo

Junior Member
Dec 7, 2008
370
Krasic was disappointing in the second part of the season but i'm not agreed he made less than Diego. He scored more goals than the brazilian. Diego declined immediately after the second game against Roma where he scored 2 goals.
 

Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
22,606
Krasic has been playing for over 14 months because in Russia ligue starts earlier so I think he's tired. The next season we'll see. People are always expecting too much and an imidiate impact. For me he played good and if Pepe on the left had played as Krasic we would have been in CL. Our opponets figured out our biggest threat so they closed him pretty well.
 

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