Juve's transfer campaign so far... (6 Viewers)
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It is.
I strongly believe that Berlusconi and Galliani should have listened to Ancelotti this time. The guy wanted a full back, centre back, midfielder and an attacker.
Instead he got a full back, midfielder, AMC and two attackers, plus a CB (with dubious quality) on loan.
Milan could have done much better , imo, if they went with Ancelotti's plan.
Zambrotta, Flamini, CB and striker.
They payed 22 for Ronaldinho, 7.5 for Borriello and undisclosed sum for Shevchenko ( i'd say around 8-10m), which makes a total of 38-40m euro. For the wages of these three Milan will pay 12m a year or 24m a year with taxes added. That's 62-64m only this year (transfer fees+ wages)
Instead of buying Ronaldinho, Borriello and Shevchenko they'd have done much better if they spent 50m to buy a strong younger attacker and a great CB. If they payed these guys solid 4.5m a year it means that they'd have payed 18m for their wages (including taxes) and it equals 68m payed this year. Almost the same with what they payed and it will be even less when you add next year's wages.
That way Ancelotti wouldn't have had the problems he has now, but he would have had a very strong team, perhaps even stronger than what he has now.
Unfortunately for him, Berlusconi is the one who decides what to do and the old guy is in love with Ronaldinho and Shevchenko and he simply had to buy them.
I strongly believe that Berlusconi and Galliani should have listened to Ancelotti this time. The guy wanted a full back, centre back, midfielder and an attacker.
Instead he got a full back, midfielder, AMC and two attackers, plus a CB (with dubious quality) on loan.
Milan could have done much better , imo, if they went with Ancelotti's plan.
Zambrotta, Flamini, CB and striker.
They payed 22 for Ronaldinho, 7.5 for Borriello and undisclosed sum for Shevchenko ( i'd say around 8-10m), which makes a total of 38-40m euro. For the wages of these three Milan will pay 12m a year or 24m a year with taxes added. That's 62-64m only this year (transfer fees+ wages)
Instead of buying Ronaldinho, Borriello and Shevchenko they'd have done much better if they spent 50m to buy a strong younger attacker and a great CB. If they payed these guys solid 4.5m a year it means that they'd have payed 18m for their wages (including taxes) and it equals 68m payed this year. Almost the same with what they payed and it will be even less when you add next year's wages.
That way Ancelotti wouldn't have had the problems he has now, but he would have had a very strong team, perhaps even stronger than what he has now.
Unfortunately for him, Berlusconi is the one who decides what to do and the old guy is in love with Ronaldinho and Shevchenko and he simply had to buy them.
They aren't in some huge minus as it may seem at first glance. They sold players for some 35m euro (Gilardino, Oliveira, Grimi, Simic, co-ownerships and loans) and they bought players for 38m+Shevchenko (so, around 45-48m).
That's a "small" difference of 10-13m euro.
Wages wise they have to pay more this year, though. They'll be paying around 25m eur a year only for the wages of the newcomers ( that makes it 50m euro with taxes added) but they got rid of few high earners (Gilardino, Cafu, Ronaldo, Serginho) so they'll be paying around 20m euro more for wages this year.
In total it's around 30-33m euro and even if they don't play in CL that's not a huge number. We spent even more last year and we just came back from serie B.
That's a "small" difference of 10-13m euro.
Wages wise they have to pay more this year, though. They'll be paying around 25m eur a year only for the wages of the newcomers ( that makes it 50m euro with taxes added) but they got rid of few high earners (Gilardino, Cafu, Ronaldo, Serginho) so they'll be paying around 20m euro more for wages this year.
In total it's around 30-33m euro and even if they don't play in CL that's not a huge number. We spent even more last year and we just came back from serie B.
Alen you too, you dont have to be that "cheap", just like i said;
and i explained the reasons why, in great detail...
We can hype our youngsters and make this the best mercato ever made, but i would prefer it to keep it real, unfortunately you dont, you know what happens if we only count in this managers decisions and our owners and investments...
go hide behind our youngsters potential and their hype in this forum, i ve proved my point...and you helped me do that with that post!
and i explained the reasons why, in great detail...
We can hype our youngsters and make this the best mercato ever made, but i would prefer it to keep it real, unfortunately you dont, you know what happens if we only count in this managers decisions and our owners and investments...
go hide behind our youngsters potential and their hype in this forum, i ve proved my point...and you helped me do that with that post!
Youre welcom, mate.
And Alen, you missed the real point of this discussion. Its not about whether Juve was better in mercato, or bilan. The question is, did we brought the right players? From my point of view not. Because most of this signings were unnecessary. At first, we were in need of a world class CB and a creative midfielder. Instead of this kind of players, we have brought players to add depth(in case of Poulsen a very expensive player). Then we brought a striker, which was a expensive one too. We were in need for a striker, but only for the bench. Because our starters on this position were the top scorers(not to mention that Gio is more of a support striker than a AMC nor a winger).
So the anwer is simple- no, our transfer campaign wasnt succesful.
Indeed, Milan is bound to face some serious problems, both at the attack and defense. Esp at the attack. At this point we have the best attack in the league IMO and Milan probably has the best midfield,
(not that Inter and Roma are half bad)
but we might both suffer of the problems that might occure form the players that will not accept the sub status.
Both teams will face problems but it is not our discussion here, we dont rate the teams now. We cant be that objective because we need to see some performances first and because we are Juve fans.
Our discussion here, is the mercato,
what these teams did, to improve their position and their chances to win titles?
The youngsters we owned, is like a gift from the old managers,
without them,
the new management's choices and the owner's investments where a pathetic, pitiful effort, to enhance our team.
Thats why i count our youngsters out, because they were not their choice, but of course they influenced our mercato a great deal, because they gave some solutions and solved some problems that would force us to buy more.
But what we did with the remaining sources we had?
Milan hadnt the luxury of a gift from the past, but they can afford more resources to compensate. So it is only fair to rate our and their choices in the transfer market this year!
We were lucky to have a very good generation of gifted youngsters, but Milan wasnt, they choices we did 5-7 years ago, when we selected them, where better,
but the choices we make today arent!
This is the difference, right here.
Our gifted generation is a rare thing and it doesnt happen every year, it happens once every generation, but where would we have been without that unexpected gift from the Moggi era??
Our remaining champions and these youngsters are all rooted from that era, when the new management will stop basing on them and built smth new, smth of quality. When are we going to make this step forward??
Thats what i expected to see and we could provide it, even with the available resources we had. But we failed to do so!
I hope this post has clarified things regarding my view...
And Enron we count every major player we acquired by choice this year,
not a player we already had and we were bound to use anyways.
We count our choices, what did our managers chose to bring, so we can enhance our team.
Mellberg, Knezevic, Poulsen and Amauri are all, our managers, because we chose to buy, loan, sign them as free agents,
where Giovinco, Marchisio and DC were choices made in Moggi's era
and we only broought them now for the reasons i stated a few posts back.
(not that Inter and Roma are half bad)
but we might both suffer of the problems that might occure form the players that will not accept the sub status.
Both teams will face problems but it is not our discussion here, we dont rate the teams now. We cant be that objective because we need to see some performances first and because we are Juve fans.
Our discussion here, is the mercato,
what these teams did, to improve their position and their chances to win titles?
The youngsters we owned, is like a gift from the old managers,
without them,
the new management's choices and the owner's investments where a pathetic, pitiful effort, to enhance our team.
Thats why i count our youngsters out, because they were not their choice, but of course they influenced our mercato a great deal, because they gave some solutions and solved some problems that would force us to buy more.
But what we did with the remaining sources we had?
Milan hadnt the luxury of a gift from the past, but they can afford more resources to compensate. So it is only fair to rate our and their choices in the transfer market this year!
We were lucky to have a very good generation of gifted youngsters, but Milan wasnt, they choices we did 5-7 years ago, when we selected them, where better,
but the choices we make today arent!
This is the difference, right here.
Our gifted generation is a rare thing and it doesnt happen every year, it happens once every generation, but where would we have been without that unexpected gift from the Moggi era??
Our remaining champions and these youngsters are all rooted from that era, when the new management will stop basing on them and built smth new, smth of quality. When are we going to make this step forward??
Thats what i expected to see and we could provide it, even with the available resources we had. But we failed to do so!
I hope this post has clarified things regarding my view...
And Enron we count every major player we acquired by choice this year,
not a player we already had and we were bound to use anyways.
We count our choices, what did our managers chose to bring, so we can enhance our team.
Mellberg, Knezevic, Poulsen and Amauri are all, our managers, because we chose to buy, loan, sign them as free agents,
where Giovinco, Marchisio and DC were choices made in Moggi's era
and we only broought them now for the reasons i stated a few posts back.
And Alen, you missed the real point of this discussion. Its not about whether Juve was better in mercato, or bilan. The question is, did we brought the right players? QUOTE]
I'm not Alen but I can say you that you missed the real point, cuz in last few pages we are disscissing Milan vs. Juve mercato.
the SAD fact is that you're a real pessimist, and that you don't allow anyone to prove you wrong even for a sec. When someone bring facts you call them cheap shots or just ignore parts where they prove you wrong. And you just won't accept the fact that even our BOD did some good job, everything good that we managed you say it's thanks to Moggi. I have nothing personal against you, but you must accept others opinions and the fact that you're sometimes beaten in the argument.
Also I'm not saying that we had great mercato, but c'mon we all know how bad Milan was last season and how much improvents they need, but still they didn't do anything concrete except Flamini. And now Sonderos transfer is simply hillarious, he will replace Nesta while he is injured?
And about Roma and Riise, do you think it's fair to compare him to Molinaro? Roma just bought him while we have Molinaro for 2 seasons, it's like comparing Amauri to Montella. We are comparing players we bought with players that Roma bought, not our wakest player in the team wit players that Roma bought.
Why the fuck are you comparing Sheva to Knezevic?
If we are goign to compare these players, then let's compare them by their positions:
Ronaldinho - We didn't bought a player like him. (Maybe we can compare with only with Giovinco) Out of form, overweight, incosistent, liability, Barcelona got rid of him on the cheap. Giovinco is the rising star of Italian football. You do the math.
Boriello - How the fuck is he better than Amauri? Only 2 years ago he was a crackhead which flopped at every club before Genoa. Amauri is a way better player, more consistant and more raw/natural ability, Amauri is one of the best Serie A players in the last 2 season, FFS. Don't give me that crap, Cronios. You are being silly.
Flamini - How the fuck is he better than Poulsen? His only good season was last season. Poulsen is playing on a high level for 5 seasons and has won more honours. He is an international player. He was a 1st team starter in every club he played. Flamini may prove to be a better player in the future because he is still improving but for now he is not. We also got Marchisio back for this position.
Zambrotta - Great player once, but is struggling the past 2 seasons and has lost some of his ability which he will hardly regain again. He is getting old. He might play better than in Spain but not on a level he was with Juve. We got De Ceglie who is only 21 and has potential.
Senderos - We got 2 players for that position instead of Milan's one, and Mellberg is surely better than Senderos. For Knezevic we will see. For now I know he is being highly underrated.
So, tell me, how the fuck is Milan's mercato so much better than ours? Sounds just like another subjective, depressive, irrational and pessimist rant from you. You will eat your words, I promise you.
If we are goign to compare these players, then let's compare them by their positions:
Ronaldinho - We didn't bought a player like him. (Maybe we can compare with only with Giovinco) Out of form, overweight, incosistent, liability, Barcelona got rid of him on the cheap. Giovinco is the rising star of Italian football. You do the math.
Boriello - How the fuck is he better than Amauri? Only 2 years ago he was a crackhead which flopped at every club before Genoa. Amauri is a way better player, more consistant and more raw/natural ability, Amauri is one of the best Serie A players in the last 2 season, FFS. Don't give me that crap, Cronios. You are being silly.
Flamini - How the fuck is he better than Poulsen? His only good season was last season. Poulsen is playing on a high level for 5 seasons and has won more honours. He is an international player. He was a 1st team starter in every club he played. Flamini may prove to be a better player in the future because he is still improving but for now he is not. We also got Marchisio back for this position.
Zambrotta - Great player once, but is struggling the past 2 seasons and has lost some of his ability which he will hardly regain again. He is getting old. He might play better than in Spain but not on a level he was with Juve. We got De Ceglie who is only 21 and has potential.
Senderos - We got 2 players for that position instead of Milan's one, and Mellberg is surely better than Senderos. For Knezevic we will see. For now I know he is being highly underrated.
So, tell me, how the fuck is Milan's mercato so much better than ours? Sounds just like another subjective, depressive, irrational and pessimist rant from you. You will eat your words, I promise you.
And Alen, you missed the real point of this discussion. Its not about whether Juve was better in mercato, or bilan. The question is, did we brought the right players? QUOTE]
I'm not Alen but I can say you that you missed the real point, cuz in last few pages we are disscissing Milan vs. Juve mercato.
the SAD fact is that you're a real pessimist, and that you don't allow anyone to prove you wrong even for a sec. When someone bring facts you call them cheap shots or just ignore parts where they prove you wrong. And you just won't accept the fact that even our BOD did some good job, everything good that we managed you say it's thanks to Moggi. I have nothing personal against you, but you must accept others opinions and the fact that you're sometimes beaten in the argument.
Also I'm not saying that we had great mercato, but c'mon we all know how bad Milan was last season and how much improvents they need, but still they didn't do anything concrete except Flamini. And now Sonderos transfer is simply hillarious, he will replace Nesta while he is injured?
And about Roma and Riise, do you think it's fair to compare him to Molinaro? Roma just bought him while we have Molinaro for 2 seasons, it's like comparing Amauri to Montella. We are comparing players we bought with players that Roma bought, not our wakest player in the team wit players that Roma bought.
Facts that Giovinco is better player than Ronaldinho can only be facts within this forum.
And even if he is, i ve explain why this BOD cannot be praised for a decision that doenst belong to them.
Feel free to point out one good decision they took this year!
I never ignored a single sane argument, on the contrary half of my overwhelming arguments were ignored...
Milan need to do more, they had no gifts from Moggi, like Giovinco and they did better than us. -
Milan brought Senderos where we couldnt bring Ivanovic and had to settle with Knezevic, did our genius board made the better choice again?
I didnt bring up the comparison with Molinaro, but at least Riise is a football player,
we hadnt any, we brought DC back and we ought to offload, Molinaro crap and but a proper player, like Fiorentina, Roma and Milan did!
LB and CB should have been our priorities for this year mercato, these where our weaklings and our BOD failed to see that and do anything about it, for a 3 rd consecutive year, we are repeating the same mistakes over and over again...
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