Juve's transfer campaign so far... (6 Viewers)

[Cronios]

Why the fuck are you comparing Sheva to Knezevic?

If we are goign to compare these players, then let's compare them by their positions:

Because Milan hadnt sign Senderos by the time i wrote that, i pointed out that there was a DF eminent and since they got so many forwards and had different needs that we had, if we were to compare our transfer efforts, we could only compare the added value of all the major0 players we and they acquired, by choice.

That would exclude our and their youngsters who fell in a different category, as they take part of different time frame plan. They are not this years choice.
Just read the posts before start commenting a few words here and there...

 

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[Snoop]

Pasquato is better than Shevchenko!
Ekdal is better than Pirlo!

 

[cyril]

Poulsen might actually be better than flamini.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Knezevic better than Nesta.

 

[cyril]

Knezevic better than Nesta.

No, don't start to generalize .

 

[DelpieroForLife]

OK, Nesta is slightly better

 

[cyril]

OK, Nesta is slightly better

Yeah just slighty

 

[Cronios]

1-Ronaldinho - We didn't bought a player like him
2-Boriello - How the fuck is he better than Amauri?
3-Flamini - How the fuck is he better than Poulsen? His only good season was last season. Poulsen is playing on a high level for 5 seasons and has won more honours. He is an international player. He was a 1st team starter in every club he played. Flamini may prove to be a better player in the future because he is still improving but for now he is not. We also got Marchisio back for this position.
4-Zambrotta - Great player once, but is struggling the past 2 seasons and has lost some of his ability which he will hardly regain again. He is getting old. He might play better than in Spain but not on a level he was with Juve. We got De Ceglie who is only 21 and has potential.
5-Senderos - We got 2 players for that position instead of Milan's one, and Mellberg is surely better than Senderos. For Knezevic we will see. For now I know he is being highly underrated.

6-So, tell me, how the fuck is Milan's mercato so much better than ours? Sounds just like another subjective, depressive, irrational and pessimist rant from you. You will eat your words, I promise you.

1- But they did and that doesnt change the fact that they strengthened their team by doing so, our transfer targets will not form a football team by they own and face their transfer target team. We have to value the collective value of the players added to stregthen their team, thats the 6th time i repeat it and you keep missing the point.

2- He is def not better than Amauri, i said the added value of Ronaldinho and the half value of Boriello (since he was co owned) are better than Amauri.

3- No comment, if you rate Poulsen higher than Flamini, there is nothing more to talk about.
Hint look at the rest of the ppls i
opinion about him, look at the team he is coming from and look at his value in the transfer and do the maths again

4- Zambro wasnt owned by Milan, unlike DC, Milan also brought other youngsters like Antonini and they had Janku+Favalli anyway, we had Molinaro=0, brought back a youngster and acquired/transferred no one!
So since we brought no one, it doesnt mean that Milan didnt strengthen their team, only because we didnt got anyone to make a direct comparison!

5- We signed Mellberg and Knezevic, may be free and cheap/loaned, but we signed them, they are our acquisitions, our choices, among with Manningher
Since Milan didnt bought any defenders by the time i wrote that post, it doesnt mean that the rest of their players have no value.


6- Every new players add smth to a team, the collective value of Mellberg+Knezevic+Manningher+Poulsen+Amauri is or isnt it lower than the collective value of Senderos+Zambro+Flamini+Ronnie+50% of Borrielo and Sheva?
Try to be objective and keep in mind that Milan still chases some defensive upgrades to come, when our board is 100% certain than we wont buy anything else!

 

[cyril]

Poulsen is better than flamini, he isn't the only person who believes that.

 

[Alen]

Alen you too, you dont have to be that "cheap", just like i said;

and i explained the reasons why, in great detail...

We can hype our youngsters and make this the best mercato ever made, but i would prefer it to keep it real, unfortunately you dont, you know what happens if we only count in this managers decisions and our owners and investments...
go hide behind our youngsters potential and their hype in this forum, i ve proved my point...and you helped me do that with that post!

Cronios, you say we shouldn't count the youngsters but you keep counting Borriello as a reinforcement for Milan.
Borriello is a player who played for Milan and Genoa bought 50% of him last summer. Now Milan bought back those 50%.
It's the same as Juve/Empoli/De Ceglie.

And i clearly said that i believe Milan have a better mercato than Juve, while some of you keep proving to me that they had a better mercato than us. No need to do it, i know that already.
I also said that i don't think Milan had a good mercato as some make it seem. If i don't think that they had a good mercato but i think they had a better mercato than us it tells a lot what do i think about our mercato, right ?
I thought you'll get this by yourselves, but you guys obviously didn't

As for our mercato, i think it was bad because we didn't address some serious problems we had in the defense. Imo, the objective was to add depth and strenghten the defense. We successfully did the first thing by adding some very good players (Mellberg, Giovinco, Poulsen and Amauri) but we needed 2 or 3 players who'd immediately take their place in the starting XI, replacing Molinaro, Legrottaglie and Grygera (i think Zebina is ok, but he's injured most of the time so we'll see a lot from Grygera this year).
With 2 full backs and a very good Cb this mercato would have been close to perfect, imo.

 

[cyril]

Yes indeed allen, 2 fullbacks would have been perfect.

 

[Grande le zebre]

Yes indeed allen, 2 fullbacks would have been perfect.

Why would we need two quality fullbacks, when you not too long ago stated on a previous thread "we will challenge for everything" this season

 

[Grande le zebre]

I told you in some other thread how to use the quote button, seems like you and internet forums aren't made for each other.


Anyways, about amauri I was referring to some poster who said that we have no player except amauri to get exited upon, baring the new season. Then I go and say "wc player", these 2 brackets( "") doesnt mean that they aren't WC players it means that to some they aren't, to me they are very established players. Its true that we still lack a very good defender especially on the flanks, but this doesn't mean that were going to fail and suck and everything because we didn't reinforce these spots. Hence adding de ceglie is till better than anything, last year we didn't have anyone but molinaro, so that's an improvement already. For our "creative problems" which to are non existent we have an extremely talented midfield with players who can defend very well and create a la zanetti poulsen, not to forget camo nedved (who's still a force) and of course giovinco and ekdal even tiago)


Then again I'm sure from your very aggressive posts that you don't rate any of zanetti ,poulsen or even camo high. I also want to tell you that your attacks on our board and ranieri are unfounded, they did a very good job of leading us back to CL football after 2 years of shame, last year they outdone themselves, also bear in mind that they could have sold our assets (gio de ceglie and marchisio) but no, they chose to keep them, instead of wasting our money on foreign talent. They bought amauri an outstanding player, and poulsen who's very underrated.

About alonso, he could have been ours it wasn't the boards decision not to invest 2 3million more, it was ranieris decision, he saw that poulsen would fit us, our team better. That's probably very arguable, but let's all wait till the season start to start judging whether this was a mistake or not.


I say, quit being so full of hate, our board has clearly made some mistakes, but overall were on the right track to fight for every trophy out there. Hopefully we will win one this year.

"were on the right track to fight for every trophy out there" And yet we need two quality fullbacks

 

[Alen]

Yes indeed allen, 2 fullbacks would have been perfect.

Just take a look at this and tell me what do you think :

Buffon
Maicon-Samuel-Chiellini-Maxwell
Camoranesi-Sissoko-Zanetti(Poulsen)-Nedved(Giovinco)
Trezeguet-Del Piero

vs


Julio Cesar
Maicon-Samuel-Chivu-Maxwell
Zanetti-Cambiasso-Muntari
Figo................................Mancini
Ibrahimovic​

Comparing these two teams, i really think Inter's team is not stronger than our team when we add three of their defenders to our team.
That's the main (only) difference between our team and a scudetto winning team. Our defense is weak, theirs is super strong.

 

[cyril]

Why would we need two quality fullbacks, when you not too long ago stated on a previous thread "we will challenge for everything" this season

Yes with our current team we can definetly comepete for all trophies, in serie A we have a reasonable chance of winning it. CL is a gamble we can win it, with a bit of luck.

Anyhow I have always said in many threads, that we don't need a cb, we need 2 flank defenders. Take some of your precious time and search for them.

Now wipe that retarded smile off your face. Thanks, in advance.

 

[cyril]

Just take a look at this and tell me what do you think :

Buffon
Maicon-Samuel-Chiellini-Maxwell
Camoranesi-Sissoko-Zanetti(Poulsen)-Nedved(Giovinco)
Trezeguet-Del Piero

vs


Julio Cesar
Maicon-Samuel-Chivu-Maxwell
Zanetti-Cambiasso-Muntari
Figo................................Mancini
Ibrahimovic​

Comparing these two teams, i really think Inter's team is not stronger than our team when we add three of their defenders to our team.
That's the main (only) difference between our team and a scudetto winning team. Our defense is weak, theirs is super strong.

I believe our only real weakness is the left side. Im saying this because if zebina is mentally and physically fit, he can cover the right side pretty well for a season or 2. This is unlikely to happen, and that's why we need 2 full backs.

Centrally IMO we're covered, chiellini and melberg or leggrotallie are more than enough, even if the latter 2 aren't "world class" chiellini can certainly add stability and effectiveness to their game. Similar to cannavaro with barzagli in the NT, put barza by himself and hes mediocre.

 

[Grande le zebre]

I told you in some other thread how to use the quote button, seems like you and internet forums aren't made for each other.


Anyways, about amauri I was referring to some poster who said that we have no player except amauri to get exited upon, baring the new season. Then I go and say "wc player", these 2 brackets( "") doesnt mean that they aren't WC players it means that to some they aren't, to me they are very established players. Its true that we still lack a very good defender especially on the flanks, but this doesn't mean that were going to fail and suck and everything because we didn't reinforce these spots. Hence adding de ceglie is till better than anything, last year we didn't have anyone but molinaro, so that's an improvement already. For our "creative problems" which to are non existent we have an extremely talented midfield with players who can defend very well and create a la zanetti poulsen, not to forget camo nedved (who's still a force) and of course giovinco and ekdal even tiago)


Then again I'm sure from your very aggressive posts that you don't rate any of zanetti ,poulsen or even camo high. I also want to tell you that your attacks on our board and ranieri are unfounded, they did a very good job of leading us back to CL football after 2 years of shame, last year they outdone themselves, also bear in mind that they could have sold our assets (gio de ceglie and marchisio) but no, they chose to keep them, instead of wasting our money on foreign talent. They bought amauri an outstanding player, and poulsen who's very underrated.

About alonso, he could have been ours it wasn't the boards decision not to invest 2 3million more, it was ranieris decision, he saw that poulsen would fit us, our team better. That's probably very arguable, but let's all wait till the season start to start judging whether this was a mistake or not.


I say, quit being so full of hate, our board has clearly made some mistakes, but overall were on the right track to fight for every trophy out there. Hopefully we will win one this year.

Yes with our current team we can definetly comepete for all trophies, in serie A we have a reasonable chance of winning it. CL is a gamble we can win it, with a bit of luck.

Anyhow I have always said in many threads, that we don't need a cb, we need 2 flank defenders. Take some of your precious time and search for them.

Now wipe that retarded smile off your face. Thanks, in advance.

CL is a gamble hahhahaha. Ask yourself these questions, How many of our first team defenders would get in to the CL's top clubs first XI apart from Chiellini - 0 How many of our first team midfielders would get in to europes top clubs XI? possibly Camoranesi. Our strikers are a different issue, as we probably have the best strike force & GK in Buffon in europe. Real madrid, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Barcelona, Inter, Fiorentina, Bayern munich have all got better quality squads than us. And yet you somehow believe we have a "reasonable" chance of winning the CL.

 

[Cronios]

Cronios, you say we shouldn't count the youngsters but you keep counting Borriello as a reinforcement for Milan.
Borriello is a player who played for Milan and Genoa bought 50% of him last summer. Now Milan bought back those 50%.
It's the same as Juve/Empoli/De Ceglie.

And i clearly said that i believe Milan have a better mercato than Juve, while some of you keep proving to me that they had a better mercato than us. No need to do it, i know that already.
I also said that i don't think Milan had a good mercato as some make it seem. If i don't think that they had a good mercato but i think they had a better mercato than us it tells a lot what do i think about our mercato, right ?
I thought you'll get this by yourselves, but you guys obviously didn't

As for our mercato, i think it was bad because we didn't address some serious problems we had in the defense. Imo, the objective was to add depth and strenghten the defense. We successfully did the first thing by adding some very good players (Mellberg, Giovinco, Poulsen and Amauri) but we needed 2 or 3 players who'd immediately take their place in the starting XI, replacing Molinaro, Legrottaglie and Grygera (i think Zebina is ok, but he's injured most of the time so we'll see a lot from Grygera this year).
With 2 full backs and a very good Cb this mercato would have been close to perfect, imo.

I mentioned Borriello, because his age and status gives him a stage above the rest of the youngsters we and Milan have, i mean the guys cannot be called a youngsters at this age and he is not unproven when he could almost be the league's first score. And the main reason is that Milan paid enough fo the half of his contract to treat this as a transfer, that was a great investment comparing it to DC, Criscito last year, could be considered as a transfer in my eyes for the same reason. But i dont consider DC a transfer, neither Abbiati.

Alen, i only ask to read my post, on post #231, you will fully understand my view on this matter if you didnt.
That and this post everyone chose to ignore explains everything:

just like i said from the start i only count the major players, that got bought

Counting our youngsters would only make this discussion worthless, because i only insist that these players were already ours and the decision to bring them now wasnt upon to us to make, they were indirectly brought here, partially because our owners found a cheap way not to invest, partially because of the praise of other teams, partially because of the visions who lead our club long before the new noobs take over, partially because he coming of their age was now and indicated the right time to come back.
This management didnt select them, they invested nothing to bring them, they are not worth of any praise for having them here to help us, they only didi this because they are cheap and available, some goes for our old champions!
And mostly because this discussion would remotely become and ridiculous since we all now that for all Juve fans, Giovinco alone worths more than Ronaldinho, Sheva,Zambro and Flamini put together, so i m keeping this real and i am referring to the major players we both bought!

As a Juventino,i have strong faith at those youngsters, i had faith of them for years, even before when they joined our team and offered their services in serie B, imo these boys are the most promising material of Italy atm
I was expecting this cheap shot at any minute...

Many posters were hurry to point out why the hype for our youngsters would make this discussion worthless.
So counting out the players we already owned and considering the choices of the new management alone, shows the true colors if this transfer market and also demonstrates the signs i saw in the past and things will come in the future.
A future where incompetent managers and unwilling to invest owners will not be able to hide behind some youngsters they did not createed and only adopted because they were forced to do so.
If this new managers will give us such a new promising generations.
They would worth any praise, despite the fact that this generation may be able to offer any service in 5 years from now. That would be their efforts, their choices, not the ones who will come 5 years from now and find everything running smoothly...
The old guard created, the new guard destroyed and the only good deed they did, is adopting the old guards hope for the future and avoid any further investments in the present. This is how i see it and i explained it aprox two years ago. I wasnt waiting for this day to come.
I do not invent excuses to bash out management.
I was really expecting to see some things from, but even my minimum expectations werent met.
Two fullbacks (or a LB and a Chiellini quality CB) and a starter MF, someone better than Poulsen and not necessarily as good as Aquilani is all we needed and we brought nothing!

 

[The Arif]

Real madrid, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Barcelona, Inter, Fiorentina, Bayern munich have all got better quality squads than us.

Sorry, but that is utter bullshit. I agree that most of the teams you mentioned have a better quality squads than us, but you crossed the line when you mentioned Fiorentina.

 

[cyril]

CL is a gamble hahhahaha. Ask yourself these questions, How many of our first team defenders would get in to the CL's top clubs first XI apart from Chiellini - 0 How many of our first team midfielders would get in to europes top clubs XI? possibly Camoranesi.

Our strikers are a different issue, as we probably have the best strike force & GK in Buffon in europe. Real madrid, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Barcelona, Inter, Fiorentina, Bayern munich have all got better quality squads than us. And yet you somehow believe we have a "reasonable" chance of winning the CL.

This reminds me so much of goal.com.

You don't need to have the best team available to win the CL, it has happened before look at liverpool and arguably milan of 2006. You think our team is a piece of shit, but its not, its actually good not the best but good. I wonder how can you say that bayern munchen are better than us? Especially considering that bayern haven't invested shit during this mercato (exept borowski) their defense is crap, every munchen fan knows this. They still have the same defense that got squashed by zenith 4 0 last year. You also believe that the violas are a better team than ours.

Your such a glory hunter dude, all your posts prove this.