Juve's transfer campaign so far... (15 Viewers)

[v1rtu4l]

I could almost swear this guy is trying to become my nemesis and force me to unleash all my negative energy
But sometimes i do enjoy to debate with this lad, esp when he shows some respect and try to understand his fellow member!

i do not try to become your nemesis most of the time i will argue against the points posters make, even when i do see their points. it is a habit of mine. i do not want the others to only see the world in black or white ... so for me it is not all bad and also not all good ... i do not even want convince you ... my task is only to show that there are more sides to a story


first of, if i don't refer to some text of you, that means that i agree for the most of it.

They did mentioned a certain 2-300 mil amount available for transfers a couple of years ago... I remember that many accused them that these are bad tactics and now many more teams will ask more money for a certain player, since we know we can affort him.
But my only fear was that they did only to impress some certain Juve fans who wanted to dream...

this statement with 300 mil must have gone unnoticed by me. i never read that figure (does not mean i claim it was never made) but on the surface you could think that other clubs would think "hey, lets rip some money off them"

Exaclty, but since we already this error once, shouldnt we try for a permanent reliable solution??
Buying a top quality defender should have been our number one transfer priority from the start, we gambled enough!!

andrades injury was really foreseeable. the only explanation to me is, that there was no defender available that would not have been a similar risk to buy in the summer. remember, you guys always say "buy zapata" where noone of udinese ever said that they would sell him ... and in this case we would be guaranteed to overpay for him ... which you don't want

Only because they had a crippled Juve in the their hands, still consisting of half a team of world class players.
Had they a lesser team to begin with, they wouldnt succeed in any of these.
So far they built nothing, but Juve's corpse was still strong enough to resist.

if our team is strong enough to resist, then obviously the great lack of creativity cannot be that great ... my point is, that not every successful team needs a xabi alonso...

Comparing to the better players other teams bought and the price they paid to get players of greater value, then we can clearly see what i mean.
These is no chance that Poulsen could be as expensive as VDV

VdV was overpayed ... you may not know it, but he could leave for 1,5 mil € next season, because he refused to extent his contract ! so not waiting for one year and paying that figure is overpaying and an act of desperation from real.

i can only guess that poulsen did have a few more years left on his contract, so there was a slightly other situation. further i think you need to fork out 10 to 15 mil € for a quality midfielder with international experience and that is exactly what poulsen is.

the performances he brought in so far don't let you think he was not worth the money, do they ?

Milan were in great need of a quality forward, but we didnt, thats the difference there. Why would we buy a player they needed instead of buying a player we need?

apart from the priorities our board had, once the decision is settled to go for amauri i can not see an error.
if we want him and have to compete with a team that are desperate to sign him you gotta give them some money or value (in our players ... remember nocerino was not wanted here by you anymore, so it is a blessing in disguise that we were able to sell them for approx. 5 mil € as part of the deal).

to strengthen our team, we need to stack up quality players and to do that, we need to buy one every year.
Our youngsters already gave us depth, we only needed quality.
And above all, instead of 2-3 injury prone, or mistake prone players, we could have done better with a reliable one!

we had 3 youngsters coming back .... that is not the depth ranieri wanted so we had to go this way. if ranieri does fail to qualify for champions league than you can say his way of thinking was wrong. right now noone can judge what would have been if we bought fewer but better players. the season will tell us ... just count the injuries.

The depth we had last season was proven enough for the third spot, we did not lost the better positions because of depth.
We only lost them because of the lack of quality, lost of determination and some tactic mistakes and strategical choices!

you mean playing nocerino on the right side, like camo is a lack of quality ?
i say no.
because camo was inured and marchionni too we had to get nocerino in positions where he had to cross, so if we had enough depth we would at least have someone on the field that plays on that position naturally and would have known how to cross instead putting a midfield destroyer there. the first team quality without injuries was decent. so i remain to say that we lacked the depth ... just as ranieri said .... two persons for each position...

To make the next depth and compete with the best, we need more quality.
More mediocre players, will only secure an average position and furthermore will jeopardise our future hopes of upgrading our team to a better status.
Just of our team, we can hardly add any more quality players without off loading some of the trash we have now, first!
We could avoid than unnecessary step and bring a quality starter this year, we just wasted a year for a mere 10-20 mil. Maybe the cost of Tiago's sale...

fact is, when we buy one great star we might have strengthened our team by a certain amount, but only on one position, only when he does not flop, he is on form and not injuried.
adding depths could prove more vital when we add strength to our whole squad when we most need it. when some of the stars are absent or injured.

the impact one or two injuries can have on us is minimized.
what was when zanetti was injured last season ? right now we are pretty solid in midfield even without him !

i think the best point is, that you have someone for the position and do not need to play someone out of position when there is an injury.

But this irrelevant in this discussion, they certainly had a better mercato than us and further more increased the difference of value in our team's rosters, at least on theory. What will happen on the field is another discussion and we can only speculate now...

you know that they only get the players that look for the money .... so you could say they have to overpay every player .... again something you don't want us to
as we learned from the robinho move, it does not matter what club it is as long as the player gets the highest wages its ok for them. we cannot compete on this level with them and i do not want to compete with milan for this. look how much crap players like dida get there... in total thats like haven 3 or 4 tiagos !

They will only help us to compete with the lesser teams more efficiently. But when our remaining champions will retire and our team is full of Mellbergs and Poulsens, not even that would be enough...

didn't you all say we need more power to defeat the lesser teams we struggled against last season ? you can't do anything right as juve board i guess.

What, is this a joke? Do you even defy the Violas hate to us??

i honestly think that no intelligent man has something called hate ...
we are humans and the more intelligent you are the more controlled is your state of mind. furthermore the fiorentina board are having only a businessrelationship with us. they are not the dumbhead violent fans that know everything better but don't got a job!

They were outplayed and deserved less, they know that and they are absolutely happy, that this fact cost nothing to them, over our common chase over the 4#
Maybe the next time, they will get the upperhand and dominate us, they have nothing to lose here,they can only improve from there!
They "sucked" and we still got nothing from them, imagine what will happen when they got better!

you gotta stick to one opinion .... further above you said "they owned us again"...

@ virtual and Cronios,

I think you 2 should create your own thread...no joke, I think it would be a good idea

it's more fun searching for cronios' post over the whole forum rather then only responding to only one dedicated thread

 

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[DelpieroForLife]

I don't think its fair to group Poulsen or Manninger in with Mellberg and Knezevic.

Manninger is a solid backup, and one couldn't expect better to watch Buffon play and step in for the odd game. Mirante might have been better, but would he be willing to play understudy at this stage of his career?

Poulsen is not what we wanted, and he's not as good as Xabi Alonso... but he is still a very good midfielder. Bringing in a guy like Poulsen really only harms Zanetti... as both Sissoko and Marchisio bring different sets of skills to the table. If Marchisio rises to the challenge, this will be a solid signing.

Amauri is a solid signing too. Not much needs to be said.

What makes these signings dubious is the clear shortcutting on the two most essential positions, LB and CB. Knezevic and Mellberg are not even as good as what we had before... which means, even if they were cheap, they were poor additions. The promise was one top player in each position. Right now, that's Amauri, arguably Poulsen, but definitely not Mellberg or Knezevic. That's 1.5/3.

If they had signed Amauri, Poulsen and Grosso, or Amauri, Poulsen and Zapata... the mercato would have been a rousing success. Right now, its mediocre at best.

I'm sure there was enough resources (cash, players) to add one legitimately WC defender.

Fully agree, rep+

 

[David01]

the transfer period has been closed for a whole day now and we are already linked with players for next year (Felipe, Zapata) and new coach (Spaletti)
they really don't know what to write, let's make some new stuff up

 

[Osman]

Its tuttocrap, why would something like a transfer deadline stop their daily manure? Their aim is to be like a soap opera, to be a frivilous distraction to the masses daily, in this case placate Juventini with empty fantasies.

 

[Grande le zebre]

Its tuttocrap, why would something like a transfer deadline stop their daily manure? Their aim is to be like a soap opera, to be a frivilous distraction to the masses daily, in this case placate Juventini with empty fantasies.

They write these fantasies, to keep the fans distracted, as they know we've had a mediocre transfers campaign. According to them Elkann can do no wrong

Tuttosport = Tuttocrap

 

[Marc]

Grande le zebre - you can take your PM and shove it up your ...

I am not even remotely interested in reading your crap, whatever you want to say you can say here, instead of taking this personal.

http://www.juventuz.com/forum/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=108973

 

[Cronios]

i do not try to become your nemesis most of the time i will argue against the points posters make, even when i do see their points. it is a habit of mine. i do not want the others to only see the world in black or white ... so for me it is not all bad and also not all good ... i do not even want convince you ... my task is only to show that there are more sides to a story

Now you made all that too difficult for me to disagree, our views are coming closer and this might end up boring if we agree too much.
So keep the flame well fed
For that reason i will focus on the details that keep us apart!
Not that i remotely disagree with your latest post;
I m so glad to have posters around that are really able to debate with personal insults and such. It is always interesting, for me to see/share another point of view. Because it helps become more objective/complete!

first of, if i don't refer to some text of you, that means that i agree for the most of it.

Good tactic, i ll share it too!

if our team is strong enough to resist, then obviously the great lack of creativity cannot be that great ... my point is, that not every successful team needs a xabi alonso...

Despite Jacks's efforts to try and make me look like a lunatic, i am not!!
I never expected more than we got, on the contrary i expected us to rank 4th, behind Milan. So i am not speaking about our strategic goals here, i am pleased so far!
But, tactically we had the chance to achieve more points and we lost too many because of some certain weakness.
To become stronger/more competitive and reach the top teams, we need to become better. If we are good, we have to become nearly perfect. And do become nearly perfect we need to discard our weaklings. The things that hold us back! IMO those were the lack of vision+exp of our managers, including our coach. The lack of quality in our rear positions and the lack of a tactical plan, our creative player that would provide more solutions in the center against some certain types of teams!
IMO these reasons cost us more, much more points than our depth issues.

apart from the priorities our board had, once the decision is settled to go for amauri i can not see an error.
if we want him and have to compete with a team that are desperate to sign him you gotta give them some money or value (in our players ... remember nocerino was not wanted here by you anymore, so it is a blessing in disguise that we were able to sell them for approx. 5 mil € as part of the deal).

I am pleased with the Amauri deal, but i believe this decision was made one year ago
( i explained why extensively at his thread )
and this board did not calculate the priorities we had for this very season.
Since our budget was very limited, we should adress our starter issues first!
This is the only reason i was against the Amauri move, because i knew our owners wouldnt invest more and our problems wold sustain one more year...

we had 3 youngsters coming back .... that is not the depth ranieri wanted so we had to go this way. if ranieri does fail to qualify for champions league than you can say his way of thinking was wrong. right now noone can judge what would have been if we bought fewer but better players. the season will tell us ... just count the injuries.

I believe the last season already proved that we cant do any better without the added quality. And if we rank at the same position again i will not be surprised...
My point is that we made no step forward, but we could have done it, using the same resources. Now even at best case scenario we are only doomed to repeat the same...

you mean playing nocerino on the right side, like camo is a lack of quality ?
i say no.
because camo was inured and marchionni too we had to get nocerino in positions where he had to cross, so if we had enough depth we would at least have someone on the field that plays on that position naturally and would have known how to cross instead putting a midfield destroyer there. the first team quality without injuries was decent. so i remain to say that we lacked the depth ... just as ranieri said .... two persons for each position...

You said 2 persons? I believe we had two persons for every position when the season started and maybe even 3-4 players at some positions. No team can afford more than that.
This year was a time to upgrade our team, but we insist on upgrading some positions and ignoring some others.
For ex, we had 2 RMs Camo and Marchio and furthermore Salih and Iaquinta and Palla could help for this place at urgent situations.
IMO instead of adding Salih to Marchionni, we could add a reliable player, younger+better than Salih and less injury prone than Marchionni.
Our path was proved wrong to my eyes, Marchionni is not a reliable solution as you can bet he is always injured, Salih is not good enough for that position anymore, Palla, Iaquinta and Noce were misplaced and misused by our coach IMO So on theory were covered with weak players and on action, they were proved not even, so that a DM was preferred instead...
We paid 3 salaries for this place, we had no option and we learned nothing from it...
I think its time for a reliable solution, i real upgrade! Our multi crap system already failed...

fact is, when we buy one great star we might have strengthened our team by a certain amount, but only on one position, only when he does not flop, he is on form and not injuried.
adding depths could prove more vital when we add strength to our whole squad when we most need it. when some of the stars are absent or injured.
the impact one or two injuries can have on us is minimized.
what was when zanetti was injured last season ? right now we are pretty solid in midfield even without him !
i think the best point is, that you have someone for the position and do not need to play someone out of position when there is an injury.

Star/proven/reliable players have less chances to get injured, flop and stay out of form than they crap we usually buy. At the midfield for ex, we started the year with two crappy CMs and we ended up with no one...
But when we invested into a quality player, someone more proven and expensive,
someone who came from a competitive team, we had no issues. Do you think thats random? Thats what i was saying from the start, buying to cheap players isnt less risky than buying an expensive/valuable one. Since he was done enough to prove that value...
If we were paying the sum we paid for Tiago+Almiron from the start of the season, to a player as reliable as Sissoko and bring someone like Marchisio as depth, i am certain that we would face less risks and better results!

didn't you all say we need more power to defeat the lesser teams we struggled against last season ? you can't do anything right as juve board i guess.

To strengthen our team efficiently, it is wiser to fix our greatest flaws first,
fine tuning the details will have less impact!
But upgrading our weaklings to decent players, would give spectacular results!
Think like if we were a car constructor and wanted to compete in a racing championship.

Our situation would indicate that for 2-3 consecutive seasons we have some braking balance problems, because of that our drivers have to brake earlier before the turns and lose 15''/lap.
The estimated cost of this upgrade would be more than half of our budget, but that would surely give us a 15" advantage per lap.
But we instead go ahead and tune our engine again, changing our turbo intercooler (Amauri), that would give as a 8" advantage per lap,
a piece that costs 80% of our budget and that would render our upgrade on the Turbo engine, (Iaquinta), we did last year, almost useless.
Last year we had the same braking problems and we chose to ignore them for the engine upgrade, we sacrificed those 15" to add that piece,
now this year we ignore them again and repeating the same mistake!

Why because our board has no plan, they have no vision, maybe because they are too inexperienced on this field, maybe because they are careless or just because they are stupid. Point is that the problem is there for everyone to notice it and nobody does nothing to fix it.
So obvious that the fans the press and most important, our enemy teams can see it, but our board cant...

i honestly think that no intelligent man has something called hate ...
we are humans and the more intelligent you are the more controlled is your state of mind. furthermore the fiorentina board are having only a business relationship with us. they are not the dumbhead violent fans that know everything better but don't got a job!

Indeed, our boards seem to have no difficulties to come on an understanding, but the pressure the Viola board feel from their fans shouldnt not be negleted,
our hate for us is a part of their history, betray that would betray their history and they wouldnt never risk that. So far, mostly because of the Viola fan, named Secco, we have in our team, they managed to get the maximum profit from any interference our team had with them regarding mercato matters!
I am speaking about the post calciopoli era of course, where they kept their lead and exp managers and we got these...figures...

you gotta stick to one opinion .... further above you said "they owned us again"...

You misunderstood me, i meant they owned us on mercato, but we owned them in that game.
We were better than them, but they bought better than us...
The remaining quality+quantity of our champions, can still beat them, even by a small margain, but our board is constantly getting owned by them.
When our champions eventually retire, then we wont have anything to use against them and if they keep on like that, they willl inevitably grow better than us...

it's more fun searching for cronios' post over the whole forum rather then only responding to only one dedicated thread

And i have to admit that i misunderstood you




PS

MODS, cant we make a new poll since the transfer window is finally close?
You dont have to open a new thread if this poll can be reset