Juve doing without del piero?! (12 Viewers)

Ian · Mar 13, 2003

You mean great work Buffon, right? Does anybody else see that Buffon is this team's catalyst? When he plays well, so does the team, DP or no DP. I need only reference our peformance at Old Trafford compared to our performance against Inter.

Hydde · Mar 13, 2003

i think trez is doing well. He was the striker of last season, so what kind of striker do you want?. IM not saying that he is the best but, he is doing his job, scoring from time to time. He is now a little lost because of delpiero´s absent but he will be better ull see.We have a forward that a lot of times wanted.

Anyway, strikers like makkay an vanisterror are unreachable cuz their respective teams will never sell them, right now.

Ian · Mar 13, 2003

RVN, I would agree, but Makaay would be reletively easy to get from Deportivo. They have Tristan and a reasonable offer probably wouldn't be rejected.

Glen · Mar 14, 2003

If we want Juve to continue playing 4-2-3-1 then I agree that Trezegol is not the best striker for the job. Tristan has often showed how that is done to perfection- especially last season, and the game against us at Riazor was for me one of the best (or most horrible) examples ever.

However- if we imagine that Del Piero and or Miccoli will be creating chances for Trezegol to put in the back of the net inside the area... I think we have the best pure striker there is. Currently we're just not able to support him very well, and he's very isolated. There is some truth to him not having the best workrate, but I'd like to stress that he was away for half the season with injury. Considering that he has 8 goals in 16 games (serieA and CL) and I think we'd be expecting quite a lot and propably too much if we wanted him to do better in a system that isn't for him.

Glen · Mar 14, 2003

This one I didn't get.
Buffon didn't play at Old Trafford where our understrenght team did more than reaonable. Against Inter where we did marvellously I don't remember Buffon having to make a single save, as the only chance Inter had was Recoba shooting wide.

Wings · Mar 14, 2003

I watched most of the games last season and we were not so impressive. Maybe Trez will get better with DP but am getting sick of this uninspiring performances by Juve irrespective of the results. I want a striker who can create something out of nothing. A striker who can take on defenders. A striker who creates magic & dazzles the fans. All I see Trez doing is tap the ball back and ran forward and the countless crosses that we have come to rely upon :rolleyes:

Maybe am too :greedy: it is not enough for my team to win. I also want them to play attractive football.

At this stage I would prefer we change our system. Not practical at all but the mere thought of enduring such pathetic performances is a painful pang. There is absolutely no fluidity in this team. Everyone seems to be struggling. Did you Pessotto! A couple of times he was absolutely clueless as to what he wanted to do with the ball. Ditto Davids, Tacchi & Zambrotta. And someone must have told Camo to get defensive. He hardly uses the wings or gets past the half! As for Trez even at his best he's not very attractive. What is happening to the beautiful game?

mate · Mar 14, 2003

And you are better to stuck talking about the pool of the best Juve goal made in a kid TV program or about DP new hair cut cause to say Juventus sucked vs Inter while they winned 3-0 just cause your beloved didn't play it's ridicolous

mate · Mar 14, 2003

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
His role is what makes him important not the player himself and if he is as tightly marked as Dp is always is then you can say he is more important

We have 5 strikers but no body else to play the free role which is important so whilst u can change the system to play as many strikers as u wish , we have noone to deputise for that role. Yes he is going thru a purple patch at the moment but more important , give me a break

The funny thing is that you try to make peaple taking you seriously...

THE FUTURE JUVE · Mar 14, 2003

This team is perfect, we just need a few adjustment like a zidane type of player with marvelous creativity upfront. The kind of attacking style of juve seems to be a bit predictable to the opponent. we just making a lot quantity of crosses upfront but lack of quality.

Hydde · Mar 14, 2003

thats true, the juve´s main attack are a lot of crosses and this is very anoying sometimes. The crosses are because trezeguet is good in the air, and he is our main weapon right now, but we need , in my opinion, another striker like henry. for example: the french national team have 2 main strikers, trexe, his role is to be standing waiting for the ball, and henry that complements trexe´s role, he is the running one, searching for the ball, taking out opponents and shooting when he can.

The delpiero´s absent have cut 1/2 juve´s attack opportunities. cuz he was trex´s partner in attack. IN my opinion juve needs a "true" striker, a marvelous one. A super star to do the job in the attack zone, with dp and trexe.

Glen · Mar 14, 2003

The ida with Trez is that he IS the superstar striker inside the area. With the French NT Henry becomes a forward and plays where Di Vaio has been playing for us recently. That works because they have the technical, mobile player to create the chances for Trezeguet (Zidane, Pires and Henry) wheras we currently don't.

But what I don't understand is that so many people don't just look at how Trez faires with Del Piero? 24 goals last season. 4 goals in the 3 serie A games with DP this year. What is it about that set up that needs fixing?
Sure- we need not to depend so much on DP being there- but isn't that exactly what we don't have to do with Miccoli arriving? Or- at least- isn't that the whole idea with Miccoli? If we got another superstar, with creativity and goalscoring ability- let's say Makaay for a financially realistic bid even- what does that make of Miccoli's transfer?

When management has already insured that DP dependance will go down, and we will be unlikely not to have a creative forward to play alongside Trez- why then try to rectify a problem that will no longer be there? It amounts to saying "yeah- but if both DP and Miccoli are out- what will we do?" We'll play the kind of lineup that has beaten Depor and INter and given us only wins in serieA since DP got injured!! Every team is bound to suffer when it's decisive players get injured. Just look at France's star studded WC team. What we should do is make sure there's at least one guy who can take on the job. With respect to Trez- with him out we'll just change into another formula, and even if we say taht both Dp and Trez were out for some time, not many attacks in
serieA compares to Di Vaio-Miccoli. But creativity is key and that's why the Miccoli return is necessary.

Ciao.

Slagathor · Mar 14, 2003

It is not that Trezeguet is an incompetent striker, not at all. But that's exactly what he is: a striker. He is not a creative forward and certainly not a #10. His play at points resembles that of Inzaghi. If you pass the ball to him when he's in the box, there's a 90% chance he scores the goal but if you let him play further down the midfield or all alone up front where he has to create his own chances, you'll see his goalscoring rate drop like a falling star.

Now, that does not mean he's a bad football player. Trezeguet is well capable of working for the team and make some good passes up front (in this he's different from Inzaghi) but you can't expect him to both create chances and score goals, that's simply not fair and that's not why Moggi bought him anway.

I'm not going to repeat the situation in the French National Team, that Glen so brilliantly pointed out and I agree with him fully.

Go on, people, give the lad a break! He's working his arse off for our team and he's doing the best he can during Del Piero's absence.

It's not his fault, it's not really anybody's fault. Fact is that our team relies on Del Piero too much. He is indeed a great player, one might even argue he's among the greatest player ever to have worn the Bianconeri jersey but the way the team is relying on him is not healthy and not fair to him on top of that.

To simply get Miccoli as a back-up for him won't cut it if you ask me. We are now in a situation that usually plays part at teams that only have a small selection of players but that's not the problem at Juve, which is very peculiar. It's not due to Del Piero being SO much better than anybody else either. I think it's due to a lack of real leaders. We need someone to stand up (think in terms of Davids or Nedved, a player that's also a real engine of the team) and take charge to lead our team to victory when Del Piero is out. Until that happens, no transfer will fix this problem!

Salut.

Martin · Mar 14, 2003

Finally! :thumb:

Slagathor · Mar 14, 2003

What? I smell sarcasm!!

Martin · Mar 14, 2003

Do you really? Check the other thread!

Slagathor · Mar 14, 2003

Mind just telling me what you meant in the first place? :angel:

Hydde · Mar 14, 2003

I have always liked trezeguet and ill continue on it. He is a very good player and bianconeri can rely On him always.

yes , maybe the problem is mental and lack of leadership.
Anyways, when delpiero comes back the things maybe will change i hope.

Glen · Mar 14, 2003

That's an interesting point Erik, and I know what you mean. I think

.Maybe we're just using different words to describe the same phenomenon but I'm not quite sure that's so. If it isn't... I disagree with you a bit still

.

I think we have loads of leaders. Tacchinardi, Ferrara, Davids (by example), Nedved, Del Piero, Thuram and yes.. Montero too. I think they're all leaders on the field and all ooze experience.

However the point were we agree- I think- is that too few of these players are offensive leaders. We have many to give structure to the defensive actions and team work morale so to speak, but we have precious few who can take the ball and carry Juve forward when we're struggling. Tacchinardi- with all his grinta and heart can't do that thing for offence. Camoranesi supplements our game and isn't like Pires for instance one who comes in from the wing to dictate the game. Davids spurs us on, but he's not the guy to give the ball and expect something goalmouth to happen. Apart from team movements we ONLY have DP and Nedved for this.
In this connection I understand why many call for for instance Stankovic (assuming we get Miccoli to be the DP substitute or added weapon) who is an engine both defensively but especially in offence too. My preferred examples would be Vieria and Emerson though. I still think Maresca has these qualities to develop for the future, but he's not really a sound banker for a CL final yet

. I think he could be though, and he has that- "lead from midfield" thing in him. Remember how he bossed Davids and Nedved around when he was on the field last year :howler:

?

Ciao.

Slagathor · Mar 14, 2003

Yes! I remember that well! And it's exactly what I meant, we're talking about the same thing here definitely. Ferrara makes for a fine captain but you won't see him drawing the team forward and giving clues on positioning and play. That's all normal and very well of course - he's a defender. The same goes for Montero and Pessotto.

In the midfield department we have Tacchinardi, Davids and Conte. All not capable of fulfilling that job either, like you said! Tacchinardi has his occasional shot on goal from 40 yards out which shows how much he knows of getting forward through positioning and passing, doesn't it?

Davids is a great fighter and a real engine but he's not what we need. Let him control the midfield, take care of his direct opponents and he'll do his job perfectly. He'll have his occasional run forward (which I think he still does because he used to do it at Ajax rather then it's his nature) but he's not offensively supportive.

And Conte, well, Conte's days are over. Let's face it. He was a great Capitano but he's not good enough anymore.

Then Camoranesi, I believe he's simply too 'young' to be a leader. He needs to grow some more at the high levels Juve is playing at!

So that leaves Nedved. I think he could well do the job, if he weren't so damn nice! You won't see him criticising his teammates and shouting "Get your lazy arse up that pitch and create an opening, dammit!" which is what I think we need. Del Piero may not shout but he sort of leads the team forward through his play, doesn't he? Nedved could do that too but he's too 'independent', too solo at the moment!

Salut.

Layce Erayce · Mar 15, 2003

IMHO Nedved deserves that role comepletely.

The problem is that the team is completely unaccustomed to being ADP-less, and are rendered paralyzed without him.

I think its time we get accustomed to the fact that Ale wont be with us occasionally and draw up good plans to use in his absence.

Juve doing without del piero?! (12 Viewers)

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