Israeli-Palestinian conflict (63 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

I'm sorry, but do you have any idea how war spreads? Suppose Israel and Palestine are at war. For argument's sake let's say Egypt is enraged about the plight of Palestine and joins in on their side. Israel gets the equivalent support from, say, Greece. Now instead of 2 states at war, there are 4. And all you can ever accomplish by taking sides is to pile up more and more participants until you got yourself the next World War.

The most that outside states can accomplish is not get dragged into the war. They can't end the war, because to do that the warring sides first have to want it themselves. Which they clearly don't since they don't even recognize each other.

Very sly way of saying, "hey, who gives a fuck"?

Yet still, we have nations that do fund Israel's little escapade, and people want to say they take the "objective" point of view and try to find a reason to defend Israel.

So, in your "objective" opinion, what is the best way to solve this mess, minus bullshit calls for peace.

 

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[Bjerknes]

Well no, that's why I created the thread.

You could have posted the cartoon there.

Seriously, shut the fuck up with this crap.

I posted the definition of a holocaust, it is exactly what is happening in Gaza, so once again, shove it.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Very sly way of saying, "hey, who gives a fuck"?

Yet still, we have nations that do fund Israel's little escapade, and people want to say they take the "objective" point of view and try to find a reason to defend Israel.

So, in your "objective" opinion, what is the best way to solve this mess, minus bullshit calls for peace.

Neither Martin nor I have ever defended Israel.

Seriously, shut the fuck up with this crap.

I posted the definition of a holocaust, it is exactly what is happening in Gaza, so once again, shove it.

It is indecent of you to assume that we weren't talking about the Holocaust in that particular meaning as it was clear from the onset that we were. Very low and very sad, Andy. If I torch down a house, it's a holocaust, but that's not what we were talking about.

 

[ReBeL]

Seriously, shut the fuck up with this crap.

I posted the definition of a holocaust, it is exactly what is happening in Gaza, so once again, shove it.

Ignore him, Andy.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Ignore him, Andy.

Hey, hey, I found another good one:

let's have the EU bring the state of Israel before the International Criminal Court.

How much fun would that be?

 

[Bjerknes]

Ignore him, Andy.

Will do. He's full of a lot of crap, to put it bluntly.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Will do. He's full of a lot of crap, to put it bluntly.

Yet my views are the ones being applied on a daily basis.

 

[Martin]

Very sly way of saying, "hey, who gives a fuck"?

Yet still, we have nations that do fund Israel's little escapade, and people want to say they take the "objective" point of view and try to find a reason to defend Israel.

So, in your "objective" opinion, what is the best way to solve this mess, minus bullshit calls for peace.

Que? You are ruling out peace from the set of possible solutions? That's a new one.

Like I said, you can't possibly solve it until both parties want to end the conflict. And for that to happen they have to reign in their demands and find compromises. Which again they're not willing to do.

 

[Bjerknes]

Yet my views are the ones being applied on a daily basis.

Yes indeed and that's why thousands have died in Gaza through force, among other places, and that's why it will continue.

Have a nice night.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Que? You are ruling out peace from the set of possible solutions? That's a new one.

Like I said, you can't possibly solve it until both parties want to end the conflict. And for that to happen they have to reign in their demands and find compromises. Which again they're not willing to do.

He's a confused kid. Adolescence comes later in the US it seems.

Yes indeed and that's why thousands have died in Gaza through force, among other places, and that's why it will continue.

Have a nice night.

Ironically enough you attack the US government for applying your views. Think about it. When you understand what I mean with that (which will be around nine tomorrow evening I suppose), you can come back to me and tell me what's your take on unilateral humanitarian interventions.

 

[Bjerknes]

Que? You are ruling out peace from the set of possible solutions? That's a new one.

Like I said, you can't possibly solve it until both parties want to end the conflict. And for that to happen they have to reign in their demands and find compromises. Which again they're not willing to do.

People call for peace all the time, but nobody takes any steps towards peace. That's why I said no more bullshit calls for peace that don't have any substance whatsoever. Measures need to be taken first.

The measures that need to be taken are not that of previous years where support for Israel was given blindly, thus allowing them to commit atrocities. For there to be peace we need to cut support for Israel, give more aid to Palestinians, and enforce the provisions of the Geneva Convention to the fullest extent of the law. Only then can we talk about peace.

So, in my view Israel should not be supported in any way, and the only support should go towards the Gazans. That means stop treating their government as a terrorist organization and stop claiming, "well, both sides are at fault." No, they are not. One side is at fault for this disaster.

Middle ground only gets you so far and doesn't add up to what is RIGHT.

 

[Snoop]

People call for peace all the time, but nobody takes any steps towards peace. That's why I said no more bullshit calls for peace that don't have any substance whatsoever. Measures need to be taken first.

you should be mad to those who let this shit happen all these years, and specially your own government who are the same side that started all this. I want Israeli's army to get destroyed more than you, but not to start another war, but to let this peace happen, that's the only way.

 

[Bjerknes]

you should be mad to those who let this shit happen all these years, and specially your own government who are the same side that started all this. I want Israeli's army to get destroyed more than you, but not to start another war, but to let this peace happen, that's the only way.

I've been calling for my government to stop funding Israel for years now, but it doesn't matter.

These wannabe Israelites should be charged with treason, especially that little cunt Emanuel. These people are not acting in the best interest of the United States.

 

[Snoop]

I've been calling for my government to stop funding Israel for years now, but it doesn't matter.

These wannabe Israelites should be charged with treason, especially that little cunt Emanuel. These people are not acting in the best interest of the United States.

I know. Americans should have done something about this, both sides declared about financing Israel before the election, people should have reacted against that, even if that will not help, but sitting there and not reacting is a crime. People should know what they are electing for..

 

[Oggy]

People call for peace all the time, but nobody takes any steps towards peace. That's why I said no more bullshit calls for peace that don't have any substance whatsoever. Measures need to be taken first.

The measures that need to be taken are not that of previous years where support for Israel was given blindly, thus allowing them to commit atrocities. For there to be peace we need to cut support for Israel, give more aid to Palestinians, and enforce the provisions of the Geneva Convention to the fullest extent of the law. Only then can we talk about peace.

I agree with this part, but one thing you forgot is realism. You need to look at thing with realism, this war could be stopped in second, but the big forces especially US are supporting this. They are acting like it's a horrible thing which needs to be stopped, but let's be real and say what actually they've done to stop it. It's always like that, we hear dozens of bullshit from every country but noone is doing anything. We will never see Geneva Convention to the fullest extent of the law. The war will stop when others decide that they don't have any use of it.

Everywhere plays other interest, interest of big forces and they are capable of doing anything to gain what they need.

 

[ReBeL]

The one thing that I don't really understand is how come that Israel is only guilty about shit that is happening in Gaza. What's with Hamas, they rejected almost every proposal about stopping the massacre, and I say it's easy to sit comfortably in some big chair far away from killings and give orders to continue fighting.

I didn't want to reply to you there because it is off-topic there.

Anyway, Hamas did not refuse anything. There is a siege since more than 2 years, but it was tightened since 6 months. The last truce agreement between Israel and palestinian resistants in Gaza including Hamas said:

1- No missiles from Gaza should be launched.
2- No attacks from Israel on Palestinians in Gaza.
3- Lifting the siege and allowing goods to enter Gaza strip and people to leave and enter Gaza freely.

The first two items were mostly applied, but the siege was never lifted. When the 6 months ended, Hamas was criticized in the Palestinian community because it could not lift the siege and everybody told it to end the truce unless the siege is ended.

You may see the siege as something immaterial but to know that no ill people could leave Gaza to be treated abroad causing tens of deaths, no students could leave or get in Gaza, no pilgrims to Saudi Arabia, no building tools are allowed to enter Gaza. Those are examples of the siege on Gaza.

So, the truce was ended because it was impossible to keep silent when people are dying in front of your eyes, and the coward world doesn't do anything.

Hamas decided to resume launching missiles into southern Israel to force Israel to lift the siege. Israel found it a good chance to make an invasion to Gaza and killed more than 1300 people. ANd I think you know the rest.

Just a question, what could Hamas do to end the siege?

 

[Oggy]

I know. Americans should have done something about this, both sides declared about financing Israel before the election, people should have reacted against that, even if that will not help, but sitting there and not reacting is a crime. People should know what they are electing for..

People never know that, voting or let's say democracy is such a bad thing in my view and like one great artist from Serbia said: "Democracy is rulling of stupid majority over smart minority" And i wintessed that when I worked at the last election here in Bosnia, I saw an insane grandma about 70yrs old (She always walks around her building only in underwear and before few days here was -10C searching for a postman. Her memory lasts about three secs sometime five) voting, she was brought probably by her son. I'm not saying that she will decide my future but hundrends like her will.

We should have some kind of IQ test before voting, and age limit too.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

I didn't want to reply to you there because it is off-topic there.

Anyway, Hamas did not refuse anything. There is a siege since more than 2 years, but it was tightened since 6 months. The last truce agreement between Israel and palestinian resistants in Gaza including Hamas said:

1- No missiles from Gaza should be launched.
2- No attacks from Israel on Palestinians in Gaza.
3- Lifting the siege and allowing goods to enter Gaza strip and people to leave and enter Gaza freely.

The first two items were mostly applied, but the siege was never lifted. When the 6 months ended, Hamas was criticized in the Palestinian community because it could not lift the siege and everybody told it to end the truce unless the siege is ended.

You may see the siege as something immaterial but to know that no ill people could leave Gaza to be treated abroad causing tens of deaths, no students could leave or get in Gaza, no pilgrims to Saudi Arabia, no building tools are allowed to enter Gaza. Those are examples of the siege on Gaza.

So, the truce was ended because it was impossible to keep silent when people are dying in front of your eyes, and the coward world doesn't do anything.

Hamas decided to resume launching missiles into southern Israel to force Israel to lift the siege. Israel found it a good chance to make an invasion to Gaza and killed more than 1300 people. ANd I think you know the rest.

Just a question, what could Hamas do to end the siege?

thanks for clearing that up

 

[Alen]

The measures that need to be taken are not that of previous years where support for Israel was given blindly, thus allowing them to commit atrocities. For there to be peace we need to cut support for Israel, give more aid to Palestinians, and enforce the provisions of the Geneva Convention to the fullest extent of the law. Only then can we talk about peace.

Nope, that way you make Israel weaker, Palestinians stronger, and the wars will continue simply because the Palestinians won't accept the current situation with how's the land shared. And it will become even more ugly because now they won't be so helpless anymore.

Palestinians won't accept to leave the land lost in 1967 to Israel, while Israel won't accept giving it back to the Palestinians.

 

[Bjerknes]

I agree with this part, but one thing you forgot is realism. You need to look at thing with realism, this war could be stopped in second, but the big forces especially US are supporting this. They are acting like it's a horrible thing which needs to be stopped, but let's be real and say what actually they've done to stop it. It's always like that, we hear dozens of bullshit from every country but noone is doing anything. We will never see Geneva Convention to the fullest extent of the law. The war will stop when others decide that they don't have any use of it.

Everywhere plays other interest, interest of big forces and they are capable of doing anything to gain what they need.

I agree with you, and that's why I said there will never be peace unless the region is totally destroyed or one entity is totally destroyed. People can guess who I'm rooting for in that battle. There will never be true peace in that region, and it's just enhanced by that stupid illegal nation of Israel.

Hell, if Americans would be more accepting of other people and we took that aid we gave Israel and allowed the Palestinians to live here with us, I'd be all for that. Of course the Palestinians want their own land that is theirs in the first place to live, but giving them land here is better than them getting destroyed by a bunch of terrorists. But of course everyone here will label them the terrorists when in fact it's the US and Israel who provide the world with so much terror. Christ, the lies of it all...

As I said in another thread (check out the Obama thread in this same forum), there are people not acting in the best interest of the United States by means of supporting Israel. These people are 1) Giving taxpayer money to support terrorism, something illegal by United States law itself and 2) creating more enemies of the United States in the process. Obviously, this is not in the best interest of the United States, and anybody who uses the fact that Israel is an ally is an idiot because they won't help us if we get attacked.

This world is so screwed up. If there was a God, he left this place a long time ago.