Israeli-Palestinian conflict (33 Viewers)

[X Æ A-12]

I understand the sentiment but it seems like an odd choice to use the paraglider symbolism considering the images most of the world has seen of paragliders here was not an assault on an IDF base but a concert/ rave where they slaughtered unarmed 20 y/os.

 

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[swag]

i'm curious what people think about this, particularly other Americans

Copypasta is what I think.

MSNBC had someone from the anti-defamation league on earlier claiming there's a special place in hell for anybody siding with Hamas. But what does siding with Hamas really mean? I'm assuming criticizing Israel.

Unless you are for shooting and bombing Gaza civilians and bystanders, you are in support of terrorism.

“I really don’t know where our state was,” she said, echoing the anger and bewilderment of many Israelis over how the country, with its vaunted military and intelligence capabilities, could have been caught so off-guard and unprepared.

“They abandoned us,” she said, adding bitterly: “They were on Twitter. That’s where they were.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-kibbutz-kfar-azza.html

Stand down, anyone?

Very sus, should be investigated.

Uh, reality check time, Muricans.

The thing about dual citizenship is the US gubment will try to needle you saying, "Well, if you enter a foreign country on a different passport other than the U.S., we can't come and help you."

Truth is that the US, like the UK, won't do crap for you in evac situations. They openly follow the "sucks to be you" doctrine.

When Covid went down big time and people were stranded in Peru, Portugal was among other countries that chartered military planes at the government expense to bring citizens back. The US and UK? Sorry, pal, find a flight on the next commercial airliner... and it's gonna be expensive.

That has just replayed out with Gaza this week.

It's another of many examples I've found where the adage of "bigger is better" means only "bigger is more expensive" so they don't do crap for you.

 

[campionesidd]

Any link to the inflammatory comments?

MSNBC had someone from the anti-defamation league on earlier claiming there's a special place in hell for anybody siding with Hamas. But what does siding with Hamas really mean? I'm assuming criticizing Israel.

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Both sides are propaganda whores. It's really difficult to ascertain what actually happened, even with photos and videos.

Replace ISIS or Al Qaeda with Hamas. Is it really that difficult to understand what siding with ISIS means?

 

[X Æ A-12]

Have we decided what the best opinion on this is yet?

I tried but Googling "Israel, palestine, Cardi B tweet" didn't turn up much

 

[Hist]

Replace ISIS or Al Qaeda with Hamas. Is it really that difficult to understand what siding with ISIS means?

Well you do support Allegri so you should know.

Joking aside, a more adequate parallel is the IRA. They were terrorists who bombed bars, transport, events etc.. was it morally right? No. This is terrorism and innocents were killed.

But it was also at the same time a type of effective resistance that changed the course of the struggle.

The point is there’s no easy way to give blanket support or clear bill of moral behaviour. That’s the complexity of a real political struggle. Pick a side if you want but do it with eyes open with full awareness of both the legitimate and horrific aspects of each side.

 

[Nenz]

Thats the point. To restore fear/deterrence/docility.

We may see an unprecedented bloodbath and land grab. Potentially to a degree that will make western states squirm and wonder wtf they just supported. This Israeli government is extreme and they have a lot of egg on their face.

Their defense minister already said they are human animals in his announcement of the full siege
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/isra...als-gaza-palestine_n_6524220ae4b09f4b8d412e0a

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You’re not wrong in that Palestinians on average probably don’t hold modern liberal values and in some pockets hold pretty extreme Islamist views, but you are wrong in thinking that this entails they have no right to their land let alone no right to live.

The majority of the world population probably don’t share these values. Doesn’t mean it’s open season to occupy and displace them. This is the complexity of the real world

Yes. From everything I've been reading lately, even from months before the outbreak of this violence, it's clear that Hamas is unrepresentative of the majority of Palestinians. It has failed to perform the basic functions of government in Gaza and the West Bank. Apparently Abbas and his ministry are extremely inept and corrupt. Hamas must have now completely forfeited its legitimacy internationally. The brutality of these attacks categorises them permanently as a terrorist organisation, comparable to ISIS.

People keep using the word 'surprise' to refer to these attacks. They're surprised at the scale of that attack. How could a group of Palestinians could be organised, motivated and equipped to carry out an attack at this scale? It's ridiculous. Speaks volumes about the ignorance and/or bias in the western media. The brutality is surprising though. Hamas and Hezbollah were never as extreme as Al Quaeda and ISIS in that Hamas and Hezbollah functioned as legitimate political organisations in sovereign countries.

It annoys me, really. Israel's government is hellbent on abolishing Palestinian identity and complete annexation of all Palestinian territory. It's a genocidal enterprise. They were already slowly and quietly achieving it, but now they have a perfect pretext to really let loose and inflict the maximum amount of suffering on Palestinians. Also, I'm concerned about Lebanon becoming entangled here. They won't survive another invasion. Egypt and Saudi Arabia on the other hand don't really care about Palestine anymore.

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P.s. Obviously Hamas weren't happy about the current peace negotiations with Mohammed Bin Salman and the US. Martin Indyk (authoritative source on Isreali foreign policy) said just before the attacks that Netanyahu is confident that neither the Saudis nor the US require any meaningful concessions regarding Palestine to reach the agreement. Looks like Iran is Palestine's last true friend in the region.

 

[Seven]

Uh, reality check time, Muricans.

The thing about dual citizenship is the US gubment will try to needle you saying, "Well, if you enter a foreign country on a different passport other than the U.S., we can't come and help you."

Truth is that the US, like the UK, won't do crap for you in evac situations. They openly follow the "sucks to be you" doctrine.

When Covid went down big time and people were stranded in Peru, Portugal was among other countries that chartered military planes at the government expense to bring citizens back. The US and UK? Sorry, pal, find a flight on the next commercial airliner... and it's gonna be expensive.

That has just replayed out with Gaza this week.

It's another of many examples I've found where the adage of "bigger is better" means only "bigger is more expensive" so they don't do crap for you.

Belgium is the opposite, but that's not ideal either.

We had a highly publicised case of an NGO worker who was held captive in Iran.

The thing is he worked in Iran before and was back in Belgium. But then he went back to Iran to pick up some stuff, despite being explicitly advised by the government not to go to Iran because of the risk of abduction. Iran are now heavily into the practice of abducting foreigners and then trading them for Iranian prisoners abroad. So this guy goes to Iran and, unsurprisingly, he is abducted and Iran want to negotiate.

In the end Belgium caved and they sent back an Iranian terrorist, so the Belgian dude could come home. The idea was we bring every Belgian back home.

And I'm sorry, but my opinion is: fuck that guy.

 

[abstract]

Replace ISIS or Al Qaeda with Hamas. Is it really that difficult to understand what siding with ISIS means?

Hamas is armed by the CIA ?

 

[JuveJay]

Israel amassing "hundreds of thousands" of soldiers on the border ready to "execute the mission". Sounds like a shitshow.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Maybe cause theres images of her dead online?

The "trending" one lying on the pickup truck is apparently alive and at the hospital according to her mother. Another one has been shot though.

 

[Ronn]

Belgium is the opposite, but that's not ideal either.

We had a highly publicised case of an NGO worker who was held captive in Iran.

The thing is he worked in Iran before and was back in Belgium. But then he went back to Iran to pick up some stuff, despite being explicitly advised by the government not to go to Iran because of the risk of abduction. Iran are now heavily into the practice of abducting foreigners and then trading them for Iranian prisoners abroad. So this guy goes to Iran and, unsurprisingly, he is abducted and Iran want to negotiate.

In the end Belgium caved and they sent back an Iranian terrorist, so the Belgian dude could come home. The idea was we bring every Belgian back home.

And I'm sorry, but my opinion is: fuck that guy.

They swapped that guy with not just a terrorist, but a terrorist in diplomat cover, who wanted to bomb an opposition rally. Belgium’s behavior was really disappointing.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Italy

 

[Ronn]

Well you do support Allegri so you should know.

Joking aside, a more adequate parallel is the IRA. They were terrorists who bombed bars, transport, events etc.. was it morally right? No. This is terrorism and innocents were killed.

But it was also at the same time a type of effective resistance that changed the course of the struggle.

The point is there’s no easy way to give blanket support or clear bill of moral behaviour. That’s the complexity of a real political struggle. Pick a side if you want but do it with eyes open with full awareness of both the legitimate and horrific aspects of each side.

While IRA’s ultimate goal was to free Ireland of English rule, Hamas’ position is that Israel should be annihilated. There lies the difference.

 

[Elvin]

Thank you darling. I congratulate you on a succesfull ethnic cleansing after a year of imposed starvation. Turks be turkin’ again.


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lol should have thought about that when Armenians tried to create their so-called empire from Sea to Sea (Caspain to Black)

Armenians lived well and held the best jobs in Azerbaijan before they got greedy and wanted to be conquerors lol

 

[radekas]

 

[jukazem]

While IRA’s ultimate goal was to free Ireland of English rule, Hamas’ position is that Israel should be annihilated. There lies the difference.

There’s also difference between English rule in Ireland and Israel’s goal in the West Bank and Gaza.

 

[Ronn]

There’s also difference between English rule in Ireland and Israel’s goal in the West Bank and Gaza.

More reasons on why 2 cases are different. Thank you!

 

[GordoDeCentral]

More reasons on why 2 cases are different. Thank you!

Algeria war of independence

 

[Ronn]

Algeria war of independence

I honestly don’t know enough about the subject but did Algerians want to annihilate France? (Not a rhetoric question)

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

I can't think of a historic equivalent where one group of people is fully occupied and subjugated by another with the exact same territorial claims.