Israeli-Palestinian conflict (43 Viewers)

[Fred]

Wasn't it you that told me theres no such thing as being impartial. So i'm trying to be partial to the truth.

Oh and btw, i didn't really mean the indoctrination part, i'm surprised you didn't respond to that, do you think its possible you Europeans are more accepting of colonization?

 

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[Martin]

Wasn't it you that told me theres no such thing as being impartial. So i'm trying to be partial to the truth.

The difference is that conversation was about Real and Barca and I was joking. When it comes to matters of people's well being I try to take it seriously.

So once again, let's try that impartiality theory again. Tell me how you're being impartial. Unless you've decided that was a false virtue.

Oh and btw, i didn't really mean the indoctrination part, i'm surprised you didn't respond to that, do you think its possible you Europeans are more accepting of colonization?

I can make this very simple. None of my two homelands was anywhere strong enough to be a colonial power. Not unless you call the vikings colonialists. So your hypothesis is trivial to dismiss.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Wasn't it you that told me theres no such thing as being impartial. So i'm trying to be partial to the truth.

Isn't that what everyone tries? Your truth may be different however from someone else's truth.

 

[Fred]

The difference is that conversation was about Real and Barca and I was joking. When it comes to matters of people's well being I try to take it seriously.

So once again, let's try that impartiality theory again. Tell me how you're being impartial. Unless you've decided that was a false virtue.



I can make this very simple. None of my two homelands was anywhere strong enough to be a colonial power. Not unless you call the vikings colonialists. So your hypothesis is trivial to dismiss.

There wouldn't be much use of me explaining to you how i was impartial about the subject. Because whatever i say, your conclusion will always be the same; that i am an Arab, and therefore have animosity towards Israel, therefore rendering me biased by default.

As for the last statement, thats why i said you Europeans. My hypothesis might be trivial, but i wasn't being entirely serious anyway. Its just that i've noticed a trend, that you Europeans are more accepting of events like the American invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, the building of jewish settlements in Palestinian territories and stuff like that.

Isn't that what everyone tries? Your truth may be different however from someone else's truth.

Perhaps so, but doesn't that make the term "truth" meaningless. Isn't the whole purpose of "truth", is that its absolute. If it isn't absolute, then truth would be quite meaningless really.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

There are a lot of subjects where there's no such thing as absolute truth. This situation (from the little I know) definitely seems like one of those.

 

[Martin]

There wouldn't be much use of me explaining to you how i was impartial about the subject. Because whatever i say, your conclusion will always be the same; that i am an Arab, and therefore have animosity towards Israel, therefore rendering me biased by default.

Does that mean that you think you're being impartial? Or not?

Perhaps so, but doesn't that make the term "truth" meaningless. Isn't the whole purpose of "truth", is that its absolute. If it isn't absolute, then truth would be quite meaningless really.

Now you are confusing the truth with your own opinion. Truth is something that can be shown. You cannot show that the Palestinians have the sole right to that territory, because there is no basis on which to decide this other than subjective values. So there is no truth.

That they were living there, yeah that's true. And that the Israelis have been living there, that's also true. But nothing about justice results from that unless you bring your own subjective standards into the question.

 

[Seven]

I can't believe you of all people think it isn't wrong that there's a Jewish state in Palestine Hoori. I mean Martin, Seven and co i can understand. They're Europeans and have probably been indoctrinated to accept colonization as an acceptable way to get what you want. I won't be surprised if i saw them justify the past few centuries of European colonization of the third world. But you, i thought would understand.

We should have colonized you, that much is certain.

 

[Fred]

There are a lot of subjects where there's no such thing as absolute truth. This situation (from the little I know) definitely seems like one of those.

There is an absolute truth, there has to be. The only problem is attaining it. We all aim to attain that truth, some of us even claim to have attained it already. Somewhere in between all of that there is a truth.

Does that mean that you think you're being impartial? Or not?



Now you are confusing the truth with your own opinion. Truth is something that can be shown. You cannot show that the Palestinians have the sole right to that territory, because there is no basis on which to decide this other than subjective values. So there is no truth.

That they were living there, yeah that's true. And that the Israelis have been living there, that's also true. But nothing about justice results from that unless you bring your own subjective standards into the question.

It means i think i try to be impartial.


Those same subjective standards i have, you probably have them too. I've said this a million times, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, i'll say it again. If the same thing that happened in Palestine happens again somewhere in Europe where you guys hear all the news. I'm pretty sure you'd side with the equivalent of the Palestinians side.

I just cannot and will never understand, how there can be any justification to coming to a country, militarily occupying it, systematically replacing the residents of that country with settlers that have emigrated from Europe. You know Martin, i really try to look at it objectively, i really do. But whatever perspective i take, there is always one thing that pops up. You're going to a land where people are living, and you're not building houses beside them or trying to live with them or something, no you're forcing them out of their homes, sometimes out of the whole territory, you're making them live as refugees in neighbouring countries. I might be biased and partial here, but somehow i don't think that can be justified.

 

[Fred]

Every single one of us is "indoctrinated" in some way or another, regarding all kinds of different subjects. So if you decide to use that term in this discussion, you can use everywhere & everytime from now on.

Well ya. But without dwelling too much on linguistics, lets just say for the sake of this argument, the indoctrination i'm talking about is similar to China and Mao, Iraq and Saddam previously etc.

We should have colonized you, that much is certain.

Now i can see where you're coming from when you say there should be a jewish state in Palestine.

Hey at least you have consistent standards, and for that i have to say kudos to you.

 

[Seven]

Well ya. But without dwelling too much on linguistics, lets just say for the sake of this argument, the indoctrination i'm talking about is similar to China and Mao, Iraq and Saddam previously etc.

It's not even close. You should come to a school in Europe and see what they teach about colonization. It's far from indoctrinating people.

 

[Fred]

It's not even close. You should come to a school in Europe and see what they teach about colonization. It's far from indoctrinating people.

I have no idea what they teach you, its why i said i wasn't entirely serious about the comment i made in regards to indoctrination.

But heres a serious question. What do they say about colonization in French schools. Seeing as France has still not apologized to its previously colonized countries. I don't think its far off to assume, they somehow justify the killing of millions in North Africa alone.

 

[Gamaro]

Wasn't it you who were telling me to be impartial the other day? Well, I'm trying to be impartial on this subject. You are not trying at all.

To be impartial doesn't mean to be neutral.

For example,Equlity and Justice are different.

 

[Seven]

I have no idea what they teach you, its why i said i wasn't entirely serious about the comment i made in regards to indoctrination.

But heres a serious question. What do they say about colonization in French schools. Seeing as France has still not apologized to its previously colonized countries. I don't think its far off to assume, they somehow justify the killing of millions in North Africa alone.

I can't really speak for French schools as I've never been to one. But I have to admit you picked out a very good example. However I can speak for Belgium and Italy and I know what is taught about colonization there.

 

[Gamaro]

We should have colonized you, that much is certain.

This what they teach in Europe.

 

[Seven]

This what they teach in Europe.

No, what they teach in Europe is that Saudi Arabia is one of the most retarded places on the face of the Earth. Which is true. And I think there are probably a lot of muslims who do not necessarily disagree with me.

 

[Fred]

You're right, but Gamaro isn't Saudi

 

[Gamaro]

No, what they teach in Europe is that Saudi Arabia is one of the most retarded places on the face of the Earth.

Now i can say what Fred said about how they indoctrinate you in the west is really true.

 

[Seven]

You're right, but Gamaro isn't Saudi

I know, he already told me .

But he obviously thinks Saudi Arabia is a much better place, where people are not indoctrinated.

 

[Gamaro]

You're right, but Gamaro isn't Saudi

This what they haven't indoctrinate him yet in Europe

 

[Martin]

Those same subjective standards i have, you probably have them too. I've said this a million times, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, i'll say it again. If the same thing that happened in Palestine happens again somewhere in Europe where you guys hear all the news. I'm pretty sure you'd side with the equivalent of the Palestinians side.

I just cannot and will never understand, how there can be any justification to coming to a country, militarily occupying it, systematically replacing the residents of that country with settlers that have emigrated from Europe. You know Martin, i really try to look at it objectively, i really do. But whatever perspective i take, there is always one thing that pops up. You're going to a land where people are living, and you're not building houses beside them or trying to live with them or something, no you're forcing them out of their homes, sometimes out of the whole territory, you're making them live as refugees in neighbouring countries. I might be biased and partial here, but somehow i don't think that can be justified.

If you were forced to leave your country and flee because someone took it by force. If it then took 300 years before your nation could muster the political influence to claim that territory back, would you, as one of those successors, do it? Or would you say "oh, it's been 300 years, well that was a long time ago, we might as well forget all about that". Would you do that? Because that's what the Jews are claiming happened at some point in the past. Are they lying?